Question as LST progresses

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
I have lots of pix uploaded into my gallery, but if more are needed just let me know. My question has to do with what most folks end up doing with potted plants (growing outdoors) as their LST progresses. My plants are responding rather dramatically to the LST and I'm now seeing secondary growth from lower leaves--in other words they're becoming branches.

The question for me is this; How do I handle those new branches that are forming on the inside of the LST circle that I'm creating around the pot?


Do I go ahead and cut them off to force branching in an outer direction?
Do I tie them down in the opposite direction from the plant top? If I do that I can only tie off one branch at most, then what? Let it grow up from there?

Is this where ScrOG has it over LST? If so.. I have space constraints given the number of plants I'm growing.
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
No one, eh? Oh well. Thought I would note (and will photograph later today) that the side branches have begun growing alternating nodes, and I do believe I may be seeing girly hairs on 'em. :)

Now.. if only I could get the rest of the Papaya seeds to germinate.
 

antipythium

Well-Known Member
The fundamental aid lsting gives, comes in the form of prolific branching coupled with the flowers that can form at each new branching node. When the tips are kept even in height Auxin production doesn't stop in tips near the base, because relative height is the controller for Auxin.

These prolific budding sites, were originally used to maximize production. Earliest, oldest growth in the more primary growing tips are typically larger; but the others, being held equal in height, grow unrestricted by the plants' typical growth control mechanism: apical dominance, or 'choice of which tips are allowed to continue producing Auxin hence being fueled by adequate growth hormone.'

If yield is what you want, you fan the plants rather hard with as dry air as necessary to reduce any chance of mold, and let the plant bush: and bush hard.

A plant done this way continually adjusted so as much height equality as possible to maintain, is kept, will literally put out a hundred budding sites; and the lower ones will grow nearly the size of the middle ones; the middle ones will grow nearly in size to the absolute oldest growing tips; the typical largest colas will remain so but be somewhat smaller than a typical christmas tree, dominant cola spear growth configuration.

Doing this led the technique to be acknowledged as the #1 producing method in the world; tried by many many people in comparison with all other forms of training, and when done heavily beats a scrog; at times by as much as 20 % but more typically by 10 to 15%, regularly.

However it's time consuming and most people eventually forgo the constant tending for a scrog, because once the growing starts there's a continuous supply of pot: and there's no need to max out each grow.
Many who develop some mothers to cut clones from, make up that difference in plant numbers, too.

The most common method of using lst is actually called partial lst: where some buds are allowed to runaway on their own above most of the rest of the canopy.

It gives better photographic and visual appeal growing a few of the colas quite large after constraining the rest of the plant in early flower, so there are a lot of secondary buds: but those are often pulled off to 'help the plant grow larger'. What it is, is pulling off buds that will be constrained from growing because the others are allowed to get above them: and auxin production is stopped in the lower ones, while not stopped in the higher ones. Weight is sacrificed but again: once the growing starts in earnest, there's always a supply of weed; and, true lst'd plants, being in all respects intentionally kept nearly equal, are frighteningly dense to many growers; and they can't bear to see the plant grow without large, standout colas; and people almost invariably let the plants go to one degree or another, at some time.... or other during their life.

The choice you make in that, is what's more important: yield, or time spent training.

Typically in a hard core lst as it was originally developed, nothing is cut from the plant. All plant matter possible is kept in place for making food; and for final weight... at cost of having to drop humidity and fan through - that's t.h.r.o.u.g.h. the canopy fairly strongly because plants in true, full lst mode are both dense, and intensely growing at what almost everyone who sees it says, is a rather amazing rate.

Typically the plant automatically, through internal adjustment, cuts off Auxin production in all but the highest tip(s) and as the plant's height grows, lower budsites are rationed some growth hormone so they grow to some degree; sacrificing perhaps a tiny quantity of Auxin from the dominant cola, but the moneymaker, the tip highest above surrounding terrain in nature, produces, and keeps the lion's share. The cutoff of internal Auxin production is relative to the distance from the plant's true, vertical highest point; and this is rationed downward through the plant, and - outer tips of branches - so that there is both a height difference adjustment in Auxin production, and rationing, as well as whether a budsite is at the tip of a branch.

Once height is equalized the plant leaves all growing sites on full tilt. The plant can detect a 2 inch difference in height, between any two points in the plant.

It will begin assigning heirarchy internally, after about 36, 40, 48 hours. That means for full training they have to be adjusted manually, or in the case of how I personally do it, use a piece of glass to equalize the plant's canopy, which works quite well, during veg, but once the plants blow up you have to have your fan blowing dry air thru the entire canopy, and I lift the glass every day or two for a few minutes.

Once the plants start flowering profusely I remove the glass, then tie all the limbs together with wire, adjusting as per, using the edge of the pot as primary hold down point, and the lower limbs as pull-down points for superior budsites.

Works well.
 
Last edited:

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
Wow, that is a hell of a lot of information in one post.

I am growing outdoors in pots on a deck that's about 30' above the ground. Air movement is definitely NOT a problem for these plants in their location, though I am the Queen of Fans and have many of them if needed. Currently they are in a purely vegetative phase, all are about seven to eight nodes, although I did more training the other day and that seems to have given me more growth.

You've given me a lot to chew on. I have enough plants that I could try the different methods, again though the problem being how to train these secondary and tertiary branches--FIM to keep them in line with the main growth point, tie them down, or just leave them be?
 

cadenza11

Well-Known Member
you should just cut the branches that have to turn up towards the light.
the ones that are already growing upwards are fine
:hump::hump:
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
When I get back this afternoon I'm going to post some more pictures. I try not to do attachments, but maybe that would be better.
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
Son of a bitch, every pic I took came out very badly underexposed, it's as though I was shooting in the dark. Either I've gotten much worse at taking pictures, or the CF card is hosing, or even worse, something's wrong with the camera itself. SHIT! At this time, no photos. :(
 

oh really???

Well-Known Member
The fundamental aid lsting gives, comes in the form of prolific branching coupled with the flowers that can form at each new branching node. When the tips are kept even in height Auxin production doesn't stop in tips near the base, because relative height is the controller for Auxin.

These prolific budding sites, were originally used to maximize production. Earliest, oldest growth in the more primary growing tips are typically larger; but the others, being held equal in height, grow unrestricted by the plants' typical growth control mechanism: apical dominance, or 'choice of which tips are allowed to continue producing Auxin hence being fueled by adequate growth hormone.'

If yield is what you want, you fan the plants rather hard with as dry air as necessary to reduce any chance of mold, and let the plant bush: and bush hard.

A plant done this way continually adjusted so as much height equality as possible to maintain, is kept, will literally put out a hundred budding sites; and the lower ones will grow nearly the size of the middle ones; the middle ones will grow nearly in size to the absolute oldest growing tips; the typical largest colas will remain so but be somewhat smaller than a typical christmas tree, dominant cola spear growth configuration.

Doing this led the technique to be acknowledged as the #1 producing method in the world; tried by many many people in comparison with all other forms of training, and when done heavily beats a scrog; at times by as much as 20 % but more typically by 10 to 15%, regularly.

However it's time consuming and most people eventually forgo the constant tending for a scrog, because once the growing starts there's a continuous supply of pot: and there's no need to max out each grow.
Many who develop some mothers to cut clones from, make up that difference in plant numbers, too.

The most common method of using lst is actually called partial lst: where some buds are allowed to runaway on their own above most of the rest of the canopy.

It gives better photographic and visual appeal growing a few of the colas quite large after constraining the rest of the plant in early flower, so there are a lot of secondary buds: but those are often pulled off to 'help the plant grow larger'. What it is, is pulling off buds that will be constrained from growing because the others are allowed to get above them: and auxin production is stopped in the lower ones, while not stopped in the higher ones. Weight is sacrificed but again: once the growing starts in earnest, there's always a supply of weed; and, true lst'd plants, being in all respects intentionally kept nearly equal, are frighteningly dense to many growers; and they can't bear to see the plant grow without large, standout colas; and people almost invariably let the plants go to one degree or another, at some time.... or other during their life.

The choice you make in that, is what's more important: yield, or time spent training.

Typically in a hard core lst as it was originally developed, nothing is cut from the plant. All plant matter possible is kept in place for making food; and for final weight... at cost of having to drop humidity and fan through - that's t.h.r.o.u.g.h. the canopy fairly strongly because plants in true, full lst mode are both dense, and intensely growing at what almost everyone who sees it says, is a rather amazing rate.

Typically the plant automatically, through internal adjustment, cuts off Auxin production in all but the highest tip(s) and as the plant's height grows, lower budsites are rationed some growth hormone so they grow to some degree; sacrificing perhaps a tiny quantity of Auxin from the dominant cola, but the moneymaker, the tip highest above surrounding terrain in nature, produces, and keeps the lion's share. The cutoff of internal Auxin production is relative to the distance from the plant's true, vertical highest point; and this is rationed downward through the plant, and - outer tips of branches - so that there is both a height difference adjustment in Auxin production, and rationing, as well as whether a budsite is at the tip of a branch.

Once height is equalized the plant leaves all growing sites on full tilt. The plant can detect a 2 inch difference in height, between any two points in the plant.

It will begin assigning heirarchy internally, after about 36, 40, 48 hours. That means for full training they have to be adjusted manually, or in the case of how I personally do it, use a piece of glass to equalize the plant's canopy, which works quite well, during veg, but once the plants blow up you have to have your fan blowing dry air thru the entire canopy, and I lift the glass every day or two for a few minutes.

Once the plants start flowering profusely I remove the glass, then tie all the limbs together with wire, adjusting as per, using the edge of the pot as primary hold down point, and the lower limbs as pull-down points for superior budsites.

Works well.
okay so the concept is to keep all bubsites at equal height. what do you mean when you say tie all the limbs together and using the pot as a holding point. . . .

....The last paragraph. please elaborate. i'm with you so far.
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
Thanks for asking that question, I've been so busy trying to ensure I was following the previous portions of the post (and eradicating leafminers and whatever's eating the leftovers) that I wasn't quite to that point. :D
 

oh really???

Well-Known Member
as i get it you have to have equal height to trick your auxin- hormone production to put all the budsites into a first priority slot. which distributes all energy equal. . .somewhat. right?
 

oh really???

Well-Known Member
yeah but the glass idea? how would you do that and ensure lights getting to the lower leaves? wouldn't you rather tie down the individual budsites at equal height?
 

Seamaiden

Well-Known Member
We'd have to ask antipythium that question. I'm first ensuring I get branching and that no branches grow taller than the main stalk. I don't think I'd use glass on my grow as it's outdoors and I'd worry that glass might scorch 'em. Maybe antipy arranges them, or they're already thinned out sufficiently that it's not a problem.
 

antipythium

Well-Known Member
okay so the concept is to keep all bubsites at equal height. what do you mean when you say tie all the limbs together and using the pot as a holding point. . . .

....The last paragraph. please elaborate. i'm with you so far.
Not very far in, you learn that it's easier to lean the entire canopy to get the most height equality for the least work. To lean the entire canopy you have to have a secure tie down point: the pot rim.
Then when you have the canopy leaned to the point where you have the most buds as equal as you can easily get, you tie various limbs to pull lower ones upward, individual high ones get tied down to lower limbs, etc.
 
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