Propagation box (seed, clone & veg) lighting configuration (T5 or CFL) advice needed

Hi guys,

I'm currently spec'ing a self built propagation box for raising seeds, clones and veging. The design is basic, a box approx. 750mm W X 450mm D X 800mm H (2.5ft W X 1.5ft D X 2.6ft H) giving approx. .315m2 (3.4ft2) area. It will be built out of 30mmx30mm (1.2"x1.2") dressed pine with a 3mm ply exterior - inside will be lined with reflective insulation. I have an existing heat mat which is in part determining these dimensions, which I'll be using as needed. However the question I am mulling over is the lights. I have looked into 3 potential setups and would appreciate any input:

Option 1:

T5HO x4 24W = 96 W/10,000 lumens 6400/6500K < http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261386582649 > $100*

(29W/3030lumens per ft2)

Option 2:

T5 LP-L x4 55W = 216 W/15,200 lumens 6400/6500K < http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=231062340156 > $120*

(65W/4600lumens per ft2)

Option 3:

CFL x2 130W = 260 W/16000 lumens 6400K
Using 2 wing reflectors such as: < http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330762026364 > $45
And these bulbs < http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320896187345 > $69
Total: $124*

(78W/4850lumens per ft2)

*prices inclusive of p/h charges

Pros/cons of each::

Option 1:
Pro-
Cheapest
Even spread of light
Low heat output
Easy/cheap to re-lamp

Cons-
Lowest output watts/lumens
Fixed distribution of light

Option 2:
Pro-
Mid-price
Even spread of light
Good amount of output

Cons-
Heat a possible issue
Not in love with PL-L tubes (not as easy/cheap to re-lamp)
Fixed distribution of light

Option 3:
Pro-
Highest output
Adjustable lamp heights (allows for more advanced veg on one side, clones on the other - by mounting each CFL in its own reflector)
Can use at half power if needed (turn one reflector off)

Cons-
Heat a possible issue?
Most expensive
Most number of components (inclusive of timers)

So good people of RIU, I'm throwing this out to you for your thoughts. Initially I was going to settle on option 1 for price and thought it'd be enough light for propagating - but then decided if I'm going to the cost and use of space, I may as well make it usable for veging (at least for early veg) and didn't think 96W would be enough juice. So now I am looking at option 2 and 3. Option 3 is probably my preferred as it gives the most power and flexibility at only marginal increase in cost. However I've never used CFL's so am unsure if using two bulbs in two reflectors as suggested will be as good as using Option 2. What would you think about heat issues with option 2/3? I haven't decided on fans/vents for the box yet, but can easily be added at low cost - at least for extraction).

I use a 95 watt T5 for seedlings, cuttings.
Another one over a Single Mom in my Veg.
two more on either side of my Flower Tent.

Thanx for the input Dogenzengi. That confirms what I thought about the 96W T5 being fine for my initial usage - how does it go for veging you mother plant? I am trying to make the most of my existing HPS tent, so want to try and veg as much as possible in this new box, didn't think 96W would get them too far along. I was thinking of doing 3 weeks at 130W for cuttings, 3 weeks at 260W for early-mid veg, then maybe 2 weeks at 400w under the MH in my tent, then 8 weeks at 600W with the HPS. It wouldn't be quite a flawless perpetual setup, but would be close enough to for my needs. Or would you think I could get through 8 weeks of veg using the 130/260W CFL, then go right to 600W HPS for bloom?

I thought I'd just chuck up this nice little diagram of the design if my explanation of using the two wing reflectors in Option 3 was unclear. As stated this is the idea I'm most keen on should it not seem like a bad idea (hence checking with you fine people with this thread!). Cheers

EDIT:

One thing I just noticed was that the wing reflectors I mentioned would be a bit too short for the large CFL bulbs. So I am now looking at 390x500 ones instead (hagling with a seller now on a bit of a deal, so could be a bit cheaper)

Argh I'm going around in circles now thinking about this. So my recent thinking is that with the larger reflectors for the CFLs it would make the box bigger than I want it to be. And I'm not confident on the CFLs despite being 130W to be even enough in distribution of light to be worth using for veg - up to mid veg stage (4-6 weeks). From what I've read about CFLs is that it is all about proximity, and haven't seen enough examples of people using only 130W bulbs - it seems more common to use multiple lower watt bulbs more widely dispersed. I'd have considered that option, but haven't got access to equipment and lack confidence in doing much serious wiring.

So now I am more in favour of Option 2. It would provide nearly as much light, but more evenly distributed. And if I need to reduce power, I'll just rip out a couple of tubes if need be (I don't think the fitting has switches to isolate tubes). So that isn't a worry regarding power consumption. It would keep the box within the dimensions I was aiming for and cost isn't so bad. Also found a supplier for replacement tubes (59 for a set cf. with 70-80 for replacement CFLs).

Ok I'll go back to my scheming and drawing. Just figured I'd keep this relevant

Sure is quiet in here... I thought I'd share my ongoing thoughts should anyone find this thread later on and might find it useful...

Having crunched the numbers on everything - including as best I could with $/watt/lumens, fixture cost, bulb cost and rebulb cost - flexibility of each option as well as throwing together an additional build using domestic CFL bulbs with the fixtures I can get locally, it was a tight race. My initial estimates were a little wrong. The T5 fixture and bulbs are the most expensive for the least output - fixture equivalent cost of $70 + $30 for bulbs/replacements - roughly 31cents/watt . Second was the PL-L x55W unit 27cents/watt, third DIY CFL setup at 23cents/watt - I didn't bother recosting the 130W CFL idea as I'd decided against it due to size.

Initially I hadn't found much evidence in favour of the PL-L 55 idea, but having done further searching have found many positive reviews/grows using them. So that should settle the decision. I'll go with the 220W PL-L x55W unit (much the same as the HTG Tek unit others use state side). Have spent more time working out the construction of the box. So look forward to putting this all together. Hope this helps someone down the track. Not to sound shitty, but would have appreciated a bit of input! I guess I figured it out anyhow.

cannaculturalist said:

Thanx for the input Dogenzengi. That confirms what I thought about the 96W T5 being fine for my initial usage - how does it go for veging you mother plant? I am trying to make the most of my existing HPS tent, so want to try and veg as much as possible in this new box, didn't think 96W would get them too far along. I was thinking of doing 3 weeks at 130W for cuttings, 3 weeks at 260W for early-mid veg, then maybe 2 weeks at 400w under the MH in my tent, then 8 weeks at 600W with the HPS. It wouldn't be quite a flawless perpetual setup, but would be close enough to for my needs. Or would you think I could get through 8 weeks of veg using the 130/260W CFL, then go right to 600W HPS for bloom?

Click to expand...

It does fine with the mom, but I supercrop to keep the plant short.

I also have a 4' four bulb T5 fixture at 54 watts per bulb for a total of 216 watts.
I use it Over my clone army.

I hang lights like these with. Yoyos, very good for the constant movement.
a few plant hooks in the ceiling of a Closet and an A/C 6" drop straight from the plenum.
I also wrapped the walls in Panda film so Foliar spraying doesn't mess up my walls.

I guess for keeping a decent mother plant, it must do already for continual veg growth. I'd probably not keep a mother, just keep clonal stock from successive vegetative plants - but I'll see how that goes. I'd have gone with a 4' T5 setup, as that would have been the cheapest option, but didn't want to dedicate quite so much space for veging. I'll be doing the same as you with a couple of yoyos too. Sounds like more or less the overall setup will be the same as yours (slightly smaller and different fitting etc), though with the PL-L 55w's, I'll get more watts/lumens in a smaller space - so perhaps veging will work out nicely. Seems like only way to truly find out is to give it all a go. Depending on the rest of my life, I hope to get this setup in a week or two. Cheers

Also, just checked your journal, and damn man impressive. Love the flowering setup with the two T5 fixtures. Keep it up