Pot size dictates size of pot..haha?

Quick question....in the opinion (or fact for the matter) of all you pro growers out there. Does the size of the pot (soil container) ultimately dictate how big you can get your plant height and diameter wise (overall)?

I currently grow in 15 gallon pots (6.5' - 7' tall plants) and my buddy grows in 5 gallon pots. He argues he can get his plants the same size as mine. I will admit his are relatively close in size but are not quite there but not a HUGE difference. We use the same soil, nute regimen, lighting....everything is basically identical.

I am interested in going down a size, maybe to 10 gallon size since it will save me the cost of soil and nutes (not having to saturate 15 gallons when I could saturate 10 gallons). He says there is no need to go to 15 gallon pots cuz its a waste of soil and nutes and you can achieve the same results feeding more frequently in smaller doses with less nutes and soil.

He also says there is not need to be concerned with growing an extensive root system if you feed them regularly. He says that the roots only grow out and down to find more nutes and if you saturate larger amounts of soil and water less frequently you cause wet pockets and the roots search them out causing the extensive root growth.

I argued that it seems you would get root bound in a 5 gallon pot trying to get a 6-7' tall plant but he keeps telling me it doesnt matter as long as you feed frequently and the roots will have no need to search and become rootbound.....what do you say?

TIA

theguyintheshadows said:

Quick question....in the opinion (or fact for the matter) of all you pro growers out there. Does the size of the pot (soil container) ultimately dictate how big you can get your plant height and diameter wise (overall)?

I currently grow in 15 gallon pots (6.5' - 7' tall plants) and my buddy grows in 5 gallon pots. He argues he can get his plants the same size as mine. I will admit his are relatively close in size but are not quite there but not a HUGE difference. We use the same soil, nute regimen, lighting....everything is basically identical.

I am interested in going down a size, maybe to 10 gallon size since it will save me the cost of soil and nutes (not having to saturate 15 gallons when I could saturate 10 gallons). He says there is no need to go to 15 gallon pots cuz its a waste of soil and nutes and you can achieve the same results feeding more frequently in smaller doses with less nutes and soil.

He also says there is not need to be concerned with growing an extensive root system if you feed them regularly. He says that the roots only grow out and down to find more nutes and if you saturate larger amounts of soil and water less frequently you cause wet pockets and the roots search them out causing the extensive root growth.

I argued that it seems you would get root bound in a 5 gallon pot trying to get a 6-7' tall plant but he keeps telling me it doesnt matter as long as you feed frequently and the roots will have no need to search and become rootbound.....what do you say?

TIA

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It does make a difference. But there is obviously a law of diminishing returns. diminishing returns (also called diminishing marginal returns) is the decrease in the marginal (per-unit) output of a production process as the amount of a single factor of production is increased, while the amounts of all other factors of production stay constant.

So it makes a difference, but you'll be "maxing out" the size around 7 gallon pots.

You should examine your root mass when you harvest, it will tell you the story. I would say your buddy is wrong when he says you don't need to worry about root size if you feed them enough. Above ground growth is almost directly linked to below ground growth. The plant won't necessarily grow bigger than what it thinks its roots can handle. But also, if you go straight to a 15 gallon pot, theres a good chance that the plant will only use 30-40% of that, and most of the middle area will have very few roots because alot of times the roots go down and find the bottom and have a circle jerk down there. I like the up-canning a few times method as it really helps the plant establish roots throughout the entire pot.
Although outdoor plants usually have a longer life hence more growth time, there is also a reason they grow to be ginormous if let be in the right soil makeup.
Again, next time you harvest, check out your rootball pretty good and see how well it is using your space. And you say your buddies plants are pretty much the same size? Are these flowering or budding the same, or just size-wise overall. Budding and amount of bud production is more relative than size is.

Nightmaresgrowing said:

It does make a difference. But there is obviously a law of diminishing returns. diminishing returns (also called diminishing marginal returns) is the decrease in the marginal (per-unit) output of a production process as the amount of a single factor of production is increased, while the amounts of all other factors of production stay constant.

So it makes a difference, but you'll be "maxing out" the size around 7 gallon pots.

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Where does the number 7 come from? Is this based on roughly a 1ft per gallon or something since mine are around 6-7 feet? thanks

theguyintheshadows said:

Where does the number 7 come from? Is this based on roughly a 1ft per gallon or something since mine are around 6-7 feet? thanks

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Well, there just isn't much difference seen between 5 gallon and 7 gallon pots, whereas the steps between 1 gal/2 gal/3 gal pots are huge. Thus the diminishing returns. WIth the 7 gallon, it gives sufficient room for all the root growth that will occur and anything more is just in excess.

MyPetSkunk said:

You should examine your root mass when you harvest, it will tell you the story. I would say your buddy is wrong when he says you don't need to worry about root size if you feed them enough. Above ground growth is almost directly linked to below ground growth. The plant won't necessarily grow bigger than what it thinks its roots can handle. But also, if you go straight to a 15 gallon pot, theres a good chance that the plant will only use 30-40% of that, and most of the middle area will have very few roots because alot of times the roots go down and find the bottom and have a circle jerk down there. I like the up-canning a few times method as it really helps the plant establish roots throughout the entire pot.
Although outdoor plants usually have a longer life hence more growth time, there is also a reason they grow to be ginormous if let be in the right soil makeup.
Again, next time you harvest, check out your rootball pretty good and see how well it is using your space. And you say your buddies plants are pretty much the same size? Are these flowering or budding the same, or just size-wise overall. Budding and amount of bud production is more relative than size is.

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I have examined my rootball and I pretty much had all 15 gallons of soil completely "saturated" with roots. It was huge. As far as bud production I can get 9 to almost 10 oz out of my plant (still fine tuning as I have been growing for only a year and am sure I can get it to over 1lb production). He gets 7-8oz consistently but like I said he is a third the size of a container. He does slightly other stuff to since he has been growing for 20+ years. He strip half the fan leaves 3-4 weeks into bloom, then powerstrip them all basically leaving the plant bare except the buds the last 2-3 weeks. That is an advanced technique which I am sure is helping him get close to my yields despite 1/3 the use of size of soil/container. I have yet to try that.

i pulled right at 4oz from one plant. one gallon pot. no shit hawaiian snow

I've been using 3 gal pots all along for 2 years now. I do have so real space constraints but at the same time, while I love the dank I've turned out, I'm just as unhappy with the yields. Mostly I use the LST method and my height is limited to 6 foot high.
Anyway, I picked up some 5 gal pots that I havent used yet. Do ya'all think I'll see much of a difference between 3 gallon and 5 gallon pots?

theguyintheshadows said:

Quick question....in the opinion (or fact for the matter) of all you pro growers out there. Does the size of the pot (soil container) ultimately dictate how big you can get your plant height and diameter wise (overall)?

I currently grow in 15 gallon pots (6.5' - 7' tall plants) and my buddy grows in 5 gallon pots. He argues he can get his plants the same size as mine. I will admit his are relatively close in size but are not quite there but not a HUGE difference. We use the same soil, nute regimen, lighting....everything is basically identical.

I am interested in going down a size, maybe to 10 gallon size since it will save me the cost of soil and nutes (not having to saturate 15 gallons when I could saturate 10 gallons). He says there is no need to go to 15 gallon pots cuz its a waste of soil and nutes and you can achieve the same results feeding more frequently in smaller doses with less nutes and soil.

He also says there is not need to be concerned with growing an extensive root system if you feed them regularly. He says that the roots only grow out and down to find more nutes and if you saturate larger amounts of soil and water less frequently you cause wet pockets and the roots search them out causing the extensive root growth.

I argued that it seems you would get root bound in a 5 gallon pot trying to get a 6-7' tall plant but he keeps telling me it doesnt matter as long as you feed frequently and the roots will have no need to search and become rootbound.....what do you say?

TIA

Click to expand...

I'm not a pro, but I have a 4' tall Sativa, and a 4' tall Indica, and they are both in 5 gal. pots.
They have plenty of room now, but I think had I vegged them at all, they might have been crowded, therefore hindering the overall size.

Gotta chime in...I believe that container size directly effects plant size and yield. I am coming off a harvest with 3 plants, each in a 18 gallon tote, each under their own 1000w. Off those 3 plants I cropped over 3lbs almost 3.5lbs. Do your thing man.

With chem nutes your friend might not bee too far off from the truth, personally I grow in organic supersoil and pot size matters. I grow 12/12 from seed and I see better results using 10 gallons vs 7 gallons. now the 10 is probably overkill for my 12/12 from seed as far as diminish returns goes, but the plants are loving it.

when I harvest, my plants are not root bound at all... I can barely see any roots (using smart pots) and very little roots circling when using plastic containers. And my soil is ready to re-use with less composting time because there isnt as many roots in it ... I just gotta make sure I keep the RH in check with a dehumidifier for this much soil.

Yea I do the whole organics things and I filled out those 18 gal. totes with healthy white roots. Had giant colas. Im not running like that this time though. Didnt feel like waiting that long to veg.

thanks for all the input guys, so like anything, there are varying opinions but it seems like the "sweet" spot for me might be 10 gallon pots.

Cobnobuler said:

I've been using 3 gal pots all along for 2 years now. I do have so real space constraints but at the same time, while I love the dank I've turned out, I'm just as unhappy with the yields. Mostly I use the LST method and my height is limited to 6 foot high.
Anyway, I picked up some 5 gal pots that I havent used yet. Do ya'all think I'll see much of a difference between 3 gallon and 5 gallon pots?

Click to expand...

yes.........a world of difference. i use ten gal totes. bigger pots = healthier plants

scroglodyte said:

yes.........a world of difference. i use ten gal totes. bigger pots = healthier plants

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Well I know you know your shit so I'm going to have to seriously consider it then for my next grow. Thats a big decision for me since its a little more expense in soil and it will take up more of my floor space thats at a premium now. But I gotta get better yields. I only average between 40-70 grams per plant when finished. Some of its my inexperience as well I know. When I see 5 inch gaps of stretch between buds on the colas, I consider that failure on my part.
Thanks Scrog, you da man.

I do not have much to say for indoor - But I do have this experience with outdoor. We planted some plants in a limited space area with a very compact ground. We dug the holes 1.5 feet(ish) deep and 2 ft wide. Those plants only got about 3' tall and 2-3' wide. The same strain was planted in a hole 2.5-3ft deep and around 4.5ft wide and those plants grew to about 6' tall and 6-7' wide and the buds were twice as big. This was the strain "Gush". A 2nd strain would be Jedi(Jedi what I do not know I just know it is a Jedi strain and it grows really well, I have more observations on that strain) Where some plants were in the same area as the gush with the small ammount of space and small holes. Those 2 plants got about 2 ft tall(max) and maybe 1-2ft wide. The other jedi plants in deeper wider holes got 4-5' tall and about 5-6' wide. The blue dreams(only sativa dom) were in the deepest holes(same width [3ft] but deeper[3.5ft]) The blue dream got between 12-15ft tall and about 4-5' wide with buds about the size of a small soda can(the mini ones that are thinner)

edit: in all - my personal observations are that you can grow plants that are just fine in a small area, but bigger root space=bigger plant growth. Last year we left about 15 plants in 15 gallon pots outside. All 15 of those plants were between 2-4ft tall an had buds the size of coke cans. They never got that big, never got that many buds, but boy let me tell you those were some of the best tasting plants I had that year.

Also my natural dirt is a very hard clay mix that makes almost a pot around my plants, I have to be very careful with my watering as the clay doesn't drain well and I don't want the plants to be sitting in a pool undrground that I don't know about. I have to bring in new soil every year(or go dig under the trees and find a nice patch)

If you look into hydroponic setups, the bucket kits typically utilize 3 or 5 gallon buckets. My question for you dirt guys: I have heard that if you start off with too big of a pot, your plant will focus completely on root mass before it builds foliage, thus producing rather slow growth initially. If you run too small of pots, all the plant seems to do is stretch like crazy. Any truth to this? This is hearsay to me so I thought I would ask and get that cleared up while we are on the container size vs. growth rate/size.

Thanks

I believe the trick is putting the plant in the pot ur gonna flower in. I use 7 gallon pots. I fill them with 5 gallons of dirt. Considering how long I vegg I will be able to add dirt to the top, plus this prevents stress to the plant repotting several times. A plant will grow depending on the light. The bigger the pot the more roots u will have, which will allow the plant to ingest more nutes, so it will produce bigger fruits as long as ur light allows it. If ur growin with lower wattage lights u dont need the medium a 1000w grower uses. I do what I call a progressive grow. I have a plant flowering right now so I have smoke. It is a White Fire. Now I have 2 Afgoo 1st Gen starts I got a month ago. They are progressing nicely under my 1000w. I am just now pulling off some nice cuttings. I got 3 good ones. These will be medium size plants when I start flowering. I will be pulling off 3-6 more starts over the next month. This goes along with pruning the 2 original plants. I have been Scroging for the last year and doing quite well. 6-8ozs of dried weed from 600w halide/hps. So with this grow I will be using a 1000w hps and halide and a 600w hps/halide unit for 2 large plants 3 medium size plants 5 small plants in a 8'wide by 5'deep by 8' high.

Krondizzel said:

If you look into hydroponic setups, the bucket kits typically utilize 3 or 5 gallon buckets. My question for you dirt guys: I have heard that if you start off with too big of a pot, your plant will focus completely on root mass before it builds foliage, thus producing rather slow growth initially. If you run too small of pots, all the plant seems to do is stretch like crazy. Any truth to this? This is hearsay to me so I thought I would ask and get that cleared up while we are on the container size vs. growth rate/size.

Thanks

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You are bringing up a lot of variables which I have heard and witnessed but CANNOT say for sure....I can say based on my observations this since originally starting this thread:

1.) MOST of the time, stretch/leggy plants are a COMBO of overfeeding specifically Nitrogen with far spacing of the light (like 2 feet or more from the tops)
2.) I have taken cutting from solo or "jiffy" pot sized containers (so like 1-2 cups of dirt) and put them in a 5 gallon pot, then transplanted them into a 15 gallon pot OR taken the solo/jiffy sized plants and put them directly into the 15 gallon pot and HAVE SEEN NO DIFFERENCE (all circumstances such as light distance, nutes, soil etc being the same)
3.) I have experimented with speeding up vertical growth of plants that are naturally bred to be smaller in stature (ex: blueberry and blue cheese) and have moved the light far away from them to make them stretch. Conversly, I have kept the light close to plants that have a predispostiion to grow fast vertically (sativa dominant) like Sour Diesel and Chocolope and can make them "squattier" and a tad more bushy. This is done with everything being the same like nutes, feeding schedule, etc. ALSO, THIS HAS BEEN INDEPENDENT OF POT SIZE.

So, as far as putting a small plant into a big pot versus an "intermediary" pot then into a big pot (big pot being 10 or 15 gallon).....I cant say it makes a difference. The plant doesnt kn ow if its in a 10 gallon or 30 gallon pot when its first palnted. It can tell when it hits the walls and has to re-direct the roots. That being said, in theory, if you had all nutrients and water available to those roots at any given time, why would they need to spread? They only spread when searching for more water and/or nutes.

However, I have switched to 10 gallon pots from 15 gallons (what this intial thread was the point of) to see if there is a difference in maximum yield (again, with all variables such as light, nutes, temp, watering, etc the same) that can be had based on pot size. I have read usually you want 1 gallon per foot of plant but there seems to be diminishing returns to a certain degree. The concensus has been between 7-10 gallons so since I was using 15 gallons I went with 10gallons thinking to error on the higher side. Time will tell.