Pheno hunt vs. "strain hunt" - pros and cons

Say you only have room for a few plants under your big light. I'm looking for thoughts comparing a grow for pheno hunting within one strain to growing different strains together to find the best strain. My thoughts,

Pheno hunt

• Pro - you don't have to save as many clones you won't want for years. Plant a whole pack,test whole pack, pick a winner, save that clone and throw the rest away.
• Pro - seeds don't have to get too old.
• Pro - you're within 1 strain comparing those grown in identical environmental conditions.
• Con - it may turn out you don't like the strain at all no matter what phenos you get.

Strain hunt

• Pro - might be quicker to try more strains and find out what strain you want to hunt within and then pheno hunt that
• Con - you have to keep all these clones alive for many years until you finally decide to pheno hunt the strain
• Con - you won't be able to get the environment right for all strains at same time and so don't max their potential
• Con - you might dismiss a strain that has good phenos just because you happened to get a bad pheno of it

What is the likelihood these points matter, other pros and cons and thoughts? Thanks homies, LOL

raggyb said:

Say you only have room for a few plants under your big light. I'm looking for thoughts comparing a grow for pheno hunting within one strain to growing different strains together to find the best strain. My thoughts,

Pheno hunt

• Pro - you don't have to save as many clones you won't want for years. Plant a whole pack,test whole pack, pick a winner, save that clone and throw the rest away.
• Pro - seeds don't have to get too old.
• Pro - you're within 1 strain comparing those grown in identical environmental conditions.
• Con - it may turn out you don't like the strain at all no matter what phenos you get.

Strain hunt

• Pro - might be quicker to try more strains and find out what strain you want to hunt within and then pheno hunt that
• Con - you have to keep all these clones alive for many years until you finally decide to pheno hunt the strain
• Con - you won't be able to get the environment right for all strains at same time and so don't max their potential
• Con - you might dismiss a strain that has good phenos just because you happened to get a bad pheno of it

What is the likelihood these points matter, other pros and cons and thoughts? Thanks homies, LOL

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Um, I think you have the parameters of a "pheno hunt" wrong.

Pheno hunting is something you do following a breeding. Your looking for that one pheno that could knock it out of the park. With that one. Your going to likely continue the project or simply cube it out for a "stable" result.
Pheno hunting, generally takes hundreds and hundreds of beans to find that "one"
ie; Matt Riots legendary Clockwork Orange strain - sold in regulars - came in at a hunting average of 1:250 beans was the "one".
I have run 24 beans from a new project and got 14 different pheno's out of that first 24 popped. 8 Males and 2 repeat pheno's.
I got lucky and each of us working the pheno hunt. Found that "one" in the first 100 beans (each) run.

The chances of getting a good pheno out of a single pack? Kind of low, but I do it still...

As far as part 2 goes. The last "con" is right.

I suggest you begin to hunt for certified clones of a strain you want. I do far more clone buying then bean buying!

What is “the best” is subjective. A matter of preference really. Each new seed will be slightly different; you couldn’t identify every possible phenotype within a given strain even after popping off a 10 pk. You would need to start like 100 plants for comparison; way too many for the average grower with average grow space. As Dr. Who says find a strain you like first and then search for a phenotype with all the dominant traits you desire.
To me there’s no need to bother trying to nail down the best representation of a strain unless breeding for seed stock is the priority. If that is the case then both a male and female must be selected. You can just as easily pop a few beans of a known strain you prefer, find a girl you like, and then clone her indefinitely. Seems to me like a waste of time trying to select the best of the best of the best when there’s literally a million decent strains available that someone else already went through the hassle of finding. Maybe breeding is your goal and that is commendable but for me it’s more about growing healthy plants. Most strains turn out well if grown well regardless of lineage.

life is too short do it all and do it big

Im going to grow a bunch of strains, make some F1 hybrid feminized seeds with my favorites and then keep hunting

Wouldn't putting pheno hunting before strain hunting be putting the cart before the horse?

Imo I'd want to find a strain I like before trying to find a pheno of that strain I love.

What good is pheno hunting if you dont know you like the strain in general?

yikesees! I may have misused the term pheno hunt. I guess I'm not pheno hunting but just hunting for my favorite girl in a ten pack. so don't know if that may or may not be more worth the time than comparing strains. Hmm, analagy coming to mind of dating a bunch of girls on the block vs dating one Chinese, one Japanese, one Puerto Rican, etc. It's hard to tell what you'll like without trying yourself. Maybe should have asked that way!

But was worth asking just for the feminizing idea. I've not wanted to but that could actually be a little easier than keeping a clone.

I think if it’s from the same strain then you will get different phenotypes of that strain if they are there, if it’s a stabilized strain then you should get very little variation between individuals. Kind of like breeding a Labrador with a Labrador, you’re going to get more Labradors. But they will all be individuals and slightly different. Mix a yellow lab with a black lab and you might see some yellow, some black and some chocolate, these are all phenotypes of labs

Wizzlebiz said:

Wouldn't putting pheno hunting before strain hunting be putting the cart before the horse?

Imo I'd want to find a strain I like before trying to find a pheno of that strain I love.

What good is pheno hunting if you dont know you like the strain in general?

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What?
Your taking this too seriously.... But yes......lol

anexgrower said:

I think if it’s from the same strain then you will get different phenotypes of that strain if they are there, if it’s a stabilized strain then you should get very little variation between individuals. Kind of like breeding a Labrador with a Labrador, you’re going to get more Labradors. But they will all be individuals and slightly different. Mix a yellow lab with a black lab and you might see some yellow, some black and some chocolate, these are all phenotypes of labs

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"Stabilized" strains still express pheno's.... Just far less between "the One's".
Also
Feminized beans? Do express pheno's to. Not as many and not as strongly but, they do.

Technically, the term "phenotype" is used to describe plants that express differing environmental growing traits.

anexgrower said:

Mix a yellow lab with a black lab and you might see some yellow, some black and some chocolate, these are all phenotypes of labs

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This is incorrect. You might get some yellow labs, if the black lab has some yellow DNA present. No "brown" labs - unless again-each parent has some brown lab DNA floating around.

Dr. Who said:

"Stabilized" strains still express pheno's.... Just far less between "the One's".
Also
Feminized beans? Do express pheno's to. Not as many and not as strongly but, they do.

Technically, the term "phenotype" is used to describe plants that express differing environmental growing traits.



This is incorrect. You might get some yellow labs, if the black lab has some yellow DNA present. No "brown" labs - unless again-each parent has some brown lab DNA floating around.

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Yes I agree with all you said.

Dr. Who said:

"Stabilized" strains still express pheno's.... Just far less between "the One's".
Also
Feminized beans? Do express pheno's to. Not as many and not as strongly but, they do.

Technically, the term "phenotype" is used to describe plants that express differing environmental growing traits.

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I'm focusing on photoperiod regs now but have some fems still. I like trying to cross and suspect most breeders and cloners aren't likely to cross what I would as my preferences aren't mainstream. I don't think they are for a lot of peeps on RIU. Figure I might just get lucky and make a winner and that's part of the fun. If I pay like $5 for one seed I think I'm entitled to make my own seeds with it.

I mostly try to observe different smells and can usually feel slightly different effects between those that smell different. To me appearances seem harder to differentiate as a pheno difference because it could just be environmental circumstances or a nice way of saying grower error. But with experience more appearances might become differentiable to me. I saw one obvious one in a bunch of tight indica looking buds in all but one sister who had shaggy looking buds.

I'm surprised recently by a random cross I grew out which wasn't strong and didn't expect it to be but should have CBD and what amazes me is compared to it's cousin crosses this one had a long lasting effect even though not strong. That right there trips me out. But anyway all of this is time and money and keeping the Madam Clone contestants around is a nightmare, aaaaah!

Most people don't need to bother with pheno hunting, just focus on well bred strains from respected breeders and the end result is pretty consistent, esp fem seeds. For serious breeding it's another story. Having said that, 90% of the strains on the market aren't stable at all-there is a MAJOR cash incentive for breeders to pump out new strains instead of working their old ones. Blame the market for that.

Rurumo said:

Most people don't need to bother with pheno hunting, just focus on well bred strains from respected breeders and the end result is pretty consistent, esp fem seeds. For serious breeding it's another story. Having said that, 90% of the strains on the market aren't stable at all-there is a MAJOR cash incentive for breeders to pump out new strains instead of working their old ones. Blame the market for that.

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yea it's unlucky that i had one of those packs where one girl was just amazeballs and the others were meh. If I had that one it would be a regular and i would not care if there might be better out there. Now I want to find and keep amazeball ones like that. it's a curse. everyone's saying this one's fire and that one's fire, but idk if personally i'd like it. too much noids is a big NO for me and i never know which one's going to do that to me. Plus the less worked brands seem more affordable and they say produce variety but have some gems. My amazeball one came from an open poll.

raggyb said:

yea it's unlucky that i had one of those packs where one girl was just amazeballs and the others were meh. If I had that one it would be a regular and i would not care if there might be better out there. Now I want to find and keep amazeball ones like that. it's a curse. everyone's saying this one's fire and that one's fire, but idk if personally i'd like it. too much noids is a big NO for me and i never know which one's going to do that to me. Plus the less worked brands seem more affordable and they say produce variety but have some gems. My amazeball one came from an open poll.

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Noids?

anexgrower said:

Noids?

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haha. picking up phrases here from brits or aussies i think. paranoia. got the noids mate!

heh, got 4 votes, 2 for each. some of you would try all cuisines and some of you would go straight for the ___ (fill in the blank I don't want to get in any more trouble).

raggyb said:

haha. picking up phrases here from brits or aussies i think. paranoia. got the noids mate!

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Avoid the Noid!

a strain means nothing you're always pheno hunting even when you're strain hunting.

quality genetics above all. If you can get quality seeds, then you only need to pheno hunt. If you can get quality clones, then you don't need to do either. Don't waste your time.

pulpoinspace said:

a strain means nothing you're always pheno hunting even when you're strain hunting.

quality genetics above all. If you can get quality seeds, then you only need to pheno hunt. If you can get quality clones, then you don't need to do either. Don't waste your time.

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i'm a little conservative to be buying clones. i wish someone would be selling clones complete with samples at a roadside stand.