organic no till soil toppings?

What are some organic no till top soil amendments? For veg and flowering.

Same as a soil mix. Just topdress a little less. Then topdress vermicompost on top of that and water.

Veg nutes and flower nutes is just a marketing scheme. Plants utilize the same for the most part in veg and flower. How much they use of each nutrient or mineral is dependent on genetics and the size of the plant and root mass.

Keighan said:

What are some organic no till top soil amendments? For veg and flowering.

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Just about any dynamic accumulator will do wonders as mulch. As will anything that was once living..given a few exceptions of course.. Some of my favorites.

Comfrey, Nettle, Yarrow, Dandelion, Clover, Buckwheat, Alfalfa, Kelp, Neem leaves,Barley straw, Cannabis leaves..

As Hyroot said, there is no 'veg' and 'flower' nutes when growing this way..

If I see my plant needs something I just top dress Vermicompost with a little Neem and Kelp then cover the pots with cannabis leaves. Easy peasy, and the cheapest and most effective mulch I've used..

Keighan said:

What are some organic no till top soil amendments? For veg and flowering.

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Kelp, alfalfa, neem meals and so on. You can top dress about anything you can put in soil. But I'd rather make a tea out of them. It's really simple, just a cheap bubbler, water and a bucket. Just put the meals, in the water and bubble for 24 hours.

I've tried traditional top dressing, but it left a crust on the soils top that annoyed me. And since I grow no till, I did not want the crust to keep building and getting thicker. And I do mulch, and that is a top dress of sorts I think.

The bubbling just gets the different compounds into solution. I top dress the left overs. The bumbling helps break the solids down quicker, and some become soluble. And soluble nutrients are available quicker than microbes breaking them down first.

shredder4 said:

Kelp, alfalfa, neem meals and so on. You can top dress about anything you can put in soil. But I'd rather make a tea out of them. It's really simple, just a cheap bubbler, water and a bucket. Just put the meals, in the water and bubble for 24 hours.

I've tried traditional top dressing, but it left a crust on the soils top that annoyed me. And since I grow no till, I did not want the crust to keep building and getting thicker. And I do mulch, and that is a top dress of sorts I think.

The bubbling just gets the different compounds into solution. I top dress the left overs. The bumbling helps break the solids down quicker, and some become soluble. And soluble nutrients are available quicker than microbes breaking them down first.

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I like using teas when I need a quick fix. Especially an alfalfa/kelp tea, quickest turnarounds I've seen. You can also throw whatever accumulators in there as they'll melt pretty quick.

I just hated the cleanup of everything. When I made a barley tea it took forever to get it completely out of my airstones. Same with a lot of solubles.. Led me to top dressing which makes my pots ultimately happier.

It's no.always best to top dress with raw ammendments as some take long time to break down or become very hot very quickly etc. It's best to feed your ewc bin ammendments scraps leaves etc and top dress with that

anzohaze said:

It's no.always best to top dress with raw ammendments as some take long time to break down or become very hot very quickly etc. It's best to feed your ewc bin ammendments scraps leaves etc and top dress with that

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This is very true. I wouldn't suggest top dressing a good amount of accumulators unless you have a thriving population. Even at that it's definitely better to implement it into your compost as an all in one kind of thing.thats actually where all my accumulators go as I only use cannabis leaves as mulch.I've gotten my best results from this.. When I put Neem and kelp down its literally a pinch of each just as a little snack to get everything up and going.

MistaRasta said:

I like using teas when I need a quick fix. Especially an alfalfa/kelp tea, quickest turnarounds I've seen. You can also throw whatever accumulators in there as they'll melt pretty quick.

I just hated the cleanup of everything. When I made a barley tea it took forever to get it completely out of my airstones. Same with a lot of solubles.. Led me to top dressing which makes my pots ultimately happier.

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I don't use air stones at all. I weight down the air lines with old large heavy nuts. Your simply busting up the organic materials, it's not a areated compost tea where more air is needed. And the left over sludge goes as a top dress. Clean up? Shleam up.

Try this twist an alfalfa tea. Bubble a cup of alfalfa meal in 5 gallons of water and one tsp of black strap molasses for 36-40 hours. The extra bubble time activate dehydrated Protozoa that come on alfalfa meal. Protozoa are a slightly higher life form than bacteria. The molasses feeds them in the tea and allows them to breed and multiply. Each Protozoa can eat several thousands of bacteria and or fungus. This rapidly makes nutrients in that bacteria and fungus available to our plants. The plants will show their happiness in one or two days.

shredder4 said:

I don't use air stones at all. I weight down the air lines with old large heavy nuts. Your simply busting up the organic materials, it's not a areated compost tea where more air is needed. And the left over sludge goes as a top dress. Clean up? Shleam up.

Try this twist an alfalfa tea. Bubble a cup of alfalfa meal in 5 gallons of water and one tsp of black strap molasses for 36-40 hours. The extra bubble time activate dehydrated Protozoa that come on alfalfa meal. Protozoa are a slightly higher life form than bacteria. The molasses feeds them in the tea and allows them to breed and multiply. Each Protozoa can eat several thousands of bacteria and or fungus. This rapidly makes nutrients in that bacteria and fungus available to our plants. The plants will show their happiness in one or two days.

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You said " The bumbling helps break down the solubles quicker." If speed is what you're after I'd throw some stones in there. My teas were a lot more smelly and bubbly when using stones vs without them.

But you're also talking about building Protozoa populations in a tea. Something I gave up on a while back.. The microbial loop happens in your pot all by itself, definitely does a better job than what we can emulate in tea's. Don't get me wrong like I said, I like an alfalfa/kelp tea every once in a while and it's nice to see immediate result..my leaves pray like crazy after this tea.. I just don't see the point when top dressing does the same thing, if not more.

MistaRasta said:

You said " The bumbling helps break down the solubles quicker." If speed is what you're after I'd throw some stones in there. My teas were a lot more smelly and bubbly when using stones vs without them.

But you're also talking about building Protozoa populations in a tea. Something I gave up on a while back.. The microbial loop happens in your pot all by itself, definitely does a better job than what we can emulate in tea's. Don't get me wrong like I said, I like an alfalfa/kelp tea every once in a while and it's nice to see immediate result..my leaves pray like crazy after this tea.. I just don't see the point when top dressing does the same thing, if not more.

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I got tired of cleaning stones, so I tried bubbling without stones and it worked better. Maybe because my stones were always dirty. But I haven't looked back. We all need to do what works for us so YMMV.

And I definitely do not agree with your assessment of teas, or the futility of building microbe populations in properly made teas..

For proof or at least some solid info on teas check out microbe man's web site. He is the one who turned me on to his alfalfa tea methhod and I'm a believer.

If your stones are dirty. Soak them in peroxide for a day. Then rinse them off. Then let them dry for a day. They will be like brand new. I've had the same stones for 6 years now.

shredder4 said:

I got tired of cleaning stones, so I tried bubbling without stones and it worked better. Maybe because my stones were always dirty. But I haven't looked back. We all need to do what works for us so YMMV.

And I definitely do not agree with your assessment of teas, or the futility of building microbe populations in properly made teas..

For proof or at least some solid info on teas check out microbe man's web site. He is the one who turned me on to his alfalfa tea methhod and I'm a believer.

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I've read microbe mans stuff. I used to use his basic recipe a lot, actually. Still do every once in a while for the veggie garden... While I agree that his recipes do well in an otherwise poorly built soil I can't say the same for Properly built soil that has been cycling for a good while.. Like I said, top dressing will ultimately give you the same result as a tea if not better.. And I say this because I started feeding my worms a combination of yarrow, comfrey, and nettle and I've NEVER had results im having now..

MistaRasta said:

I've read microbe mans stuff. I used to use his basic recipe a lot, actually. Still do every once in a while for the veggie garden... While I agree that his recipes do well in an otherwise poorly built soil I can't say the same for Properly built soil that has been cycling for a good while.. Like I said, top dressing will ultimately give you the same result as a tea if not better.. And I say this because I started feeding my worms a combination of yarrow, comfrey, and nettle and I've NEVER had results im having now..

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Very cool, designer castings, I love it. The most important component of any mix is the compost part, and vermi compost is the holy grail, and you feed your worms premium inputs. Your compost should rock. Your worms have an impressive diet.

But I don't think only poorly made soil mixes benefit from good teas. Have you tried sprouted seed teas?

hyroot said:

If your stones are dirty. Soak them in peroxide for a day. Then rinse them off. Then let them dry for a day. They will be like brand new. I've had the same stones for 6 years now.

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This works great!!! I used to use a similar method when I ran a DWC to clean off slime, I'd mix half a cup (I think) of h2o2 in a gallon of water and let it bubble for a few hours, the slime would just disintegrate and float to the top, leaving pristine stones which I'm still using today for tea's. I'm using hot water and a scrubbing brush at the mo, need to get me some more H-peroxide.

MistaRasta said:

I've read microbe mans stuff. I used to use his basic recipe a lot, actually. Still do every once in a while for the veggie garden... While I agree that his recipes do well in an otherwise poorly built soil I can't say the same for Properly built soil that has been cycling for a good while.. Like I said, top dressing will ultimately give you the same result as a tea if not better.. And I say this because I started feeding my worms a combination of yarrow, comfrey, and nettle and I've NEVER had results im having now..

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Same here, I might do a tea on the veggie garden in early spring or to inoculate fresh mulch, but nothing for my mixes for several years now.

"Properly built soil that has been cycling for a good while...", is the key here. A very high % of growers I know that have been making their own mixes for a number of years have also stopped using teas, simply because it was extra work that was not necessary in the least.

Life got even easier when COOT reported that top dressing dry ground up malted barley worked just as well as the same that had been bubbled. Same benefits, 1/10th the effort.

"Designer worm castings" LOL sounds better than "Lazy gardeners way to utilize comfrey" though. 90%+ of my worms food is comfrey and coffee grounds. I'll freeze a harvest or 2 for feeding over the winter when the comfrey is dormant, but freeze all of it before it goes into the bins. Turns to mush in a couple of days. Also keep some ziplocks with kelp meal, neem cake, alfalfa pellets, and chicken 'laying mash', to add the occasional handful on top.

"Results like never before" is a bit of an understatement.

Wet

Love the amount of protein in comfrey. When you put some dandelion or horsetail with it it does wonders, not that it doesn't do good all its own...

Also love the malted barley. You can find over 500,000 different strains of lacto on a single barley shell. Imagine how fast it could clean up polluted lands, as well as polluted guts

shredder4 said:

Very cool, designer castings, I love it. The most important component of any mix is the compost part, and vermi compost is the holy grail, and you feed your worms premium inputs. Your compost should rock. Your worms have an impressive diet.

But I don't think only poorly made soil mixes benefit from good teas. Have you tried sprouted seed teas?

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I used do the whole seed sprout thing and it works wonders, but it's a bit tricky to have to plan around 2 or 3 days of it with a busy schedule.. Now I buy malted barley as it's designed to have the highest levels of enzymes and its so much easier to use.

It's much simpler than using the sprout tea.. as @Wetdog said above, you can just top dress it.. I grind up 1/4 cup for each 15 gallon pot, water it in with some silica and fulvic acid.. Get amazing results next morning.

Build a vortex brewer cheap easy effective esp if you already have a decent air pump. No airstones etc to worry about

The price of malted barley is ridiculous. $10 for 2 lbs. I get a pound of corn seed for $1.29 All you need is a dehydrator ($30) and you can malt your own seeds.

Sprout the seeds then put them in the dehydrator for a day and you have malted seeds.

anzohaze said:

Build a vortex brewer cheap easy effective esp if you already have a decent air pump. No airstones etc to worry about

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I built a DIY V-Brewer, works great, but it sounds like a B52 bomber pmsl, not good when you need to be discreet and you've got neighbours the other side of the wall. I've had to go back to airstones but I'm thinking of trying to just glue the airlines to the bottom of my 5Gal drum, all pointing clockwise around the edge hoping this will create a sort of vortex or at least eliminate any dead spots, I've got a 6 way air manifold and plenty of airline to play with, might give it a go.

DonBrennon said:

I built a DIY V-Brewer, works great, but it sounds like a B52 bomber pmsl, not good when you need to be discreet and you've got neighbours the other side of the wall. I've had to go back to airstones but I'm thinking of trying to just glue the airlines to the bottom of my 5Gal drum, all pointing clockwise around the edge hoping this will create a sort of vortex or at least eliminate any dead spots, I've got a 6 way air manifold and plenty of airline to play with, might give it a go.

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How many plants do you have

The max at any one time would be 12 x 20 Gal's for flowering plus around 15-20 x 2-3Gal's for mothers/veg etc, but all my aloe and other house plants get a little treat to from time to time too. I'll also brew a tea up for my outdoor fruit/veg/herbs in containers and a raised bed in my yard.