Nutrient deficiency or lockout?

Fish scale

Well-Known Member
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5 weeks into flower. Grown in coco coir, watered twice per day until run off. I'm guessing it's a nutrient deficiency but I've raised my feed and it seems like it's getting worse which leads me to believe it could be a lockout? Does anyone know what deficiency it is? Is it calcium related?
 
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My guess is lock out, I recently had a plant do just this but in veg and started on lower leafs the old growth and the new, soon as its working on the next leafs, it becomes deficient. Id say because the plants are really dark. I know I was just saying earlier that it could be fine but only if its not doing what this is doing now.

I saw on the UK thread you said you upped feed? Was this after your last thread when you said youd bring it back to where the ec was?
 
My guess is lock out, I recently had a plant do just this but in veg and started on lower leafs the old growth and the new, soon as its working on the next leafs, it becomes deficient. Id say because the plants are really dark. I know I was just saying earlier that it could be fine but only if its not doing what this is doing now.

I saw on the UK thread you said you upped feed? Was this after your last thread when you said youd bring it back to where the ec was?
For me it's only on the top leaves

This is a different plant. I haven't lowered the feed on this one.

It was fine for ages on 22ml of A&B and then it showed this problem 4 weeks into flower. All of the time before 4 weeks of flower it was fine on 22ml of A&B. Over the last week or so I have raised the feed up to 30ml of A&B and it seems to be getting worse. But it was fine for about 4 weeks on 22ml of A&B and then it just randomly went like this. So I thought to myself it must be a nutrient deficiency so I have raised the feed.
 
I'm using Dutch Pro A&B for hard water and this feed that I am using has reduced amounts of calcium in the feed due to the fact that my tap water is hard water. There is supposed to be more calcium in hard water which is why they add less calcium in there A&B feed. What I am thinking is that because there is less calcium in this Dutch Pro A&B for hard water that this plant isn't getting enough calcium in flower? When I look at the immobile vs mobile nutrients chart calcium deficiency always starts at the Top of the plant. So maybe there just isn't enough calcium in the feed that I am using which is causing the deficiency?


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My tap is high in calcium just a different form not available to plants and I dont use nutes to compensate that. I use maxibloom and my tap ec is .5. If its not lockout all I can guess next is since you said you have no way of testing runoff it could be salt burn from salt build up.

I get burns on the top growth between the harring bone like pattern on leafs. Every other panel was turning a bleached color. It can show in all sorts of ways if this is the problem Im no expert tho. If runoff ec is .3 ec higher or much more thats been the cause of my issues 75% of the time before making sure thats not it.

Upping the ec if this is the case likely will just make it worse. This why I try to have my basic potential issues eliminated like washing and double buffer coco, always feed to good runoff and having a way to monitor it, PH and EC on point. It helps get to the issue but if you cant say anything on runoff readings now we are just guessing.

It can be like that, people can think its everything im doing but they can be wrong if it turns out my water isnt good, it can create issues that people just have to guess at. Finicky. People tell me its this issue but I solve it myself just not allowing too much dryback. So issues can have conflicting aspects when diagnosing. I guess sometimes we guess or sometimes its something simple like salt build up.
 
If cant check runoff I suppose it wouldnt hurt to add a extra feed per day and increase the amount of runoff so at least you can assume its not that. It wont tell you if your ec needs to drop though.
 
If cant check runoff I suppose it wouldnt hurt to add a extra feed per day and increase the amount of runoff so at least you can assume its not that. It wont tell you if your ec needs to drop though.
I can't water more than twice a day because I am using very small reservoirs and a pump to pump the water in onto hydro halo rings and it takes me 3 hours a day just to feed them twice a day. I need to invest into a bigger reservoir so I don't have to worry about this issue in the future. Then I will be able to feed 4 or 5 times per day
 
Pot size will help that, I use half a gallon worth of coco in a one gallon pot. Used to use 3 gallon pots but they required lots of water like what your describing now with just a few plants. I get the same results I mean sure they will have thicker trunks possibly more yield but just adding an extra plant will do it IMO.

If ur room gets higher than 76F its warm enough to rot the rez and ya pool shock or bleach will help and maybe solve it. It didnt for me though. My only option is get a RO filter and or water chiller. I dont have 300-600w to do that and it might not work so hesitant to try.

I just got used to using 5 gal bucket per plant and its own pump. Im enjoying the benefit of being able to give a seperate plant its own ec because it needs half the ec my main plant uses. Shes just a heavy feeder. I do 6 plants max so 6 buckets, 7 oz per plant.

I need to feed 12x a day though unless it has less roots to slurp up water like a straw so it can do 8x a day. 12x a day need refill bucket daily 8x is every 1.5 days. I spend like 5 mins per bucket so 30 mins a morning watering plants. More coco would just ruin it by needing much more water.

If you can get away with 4-6x a day fed it will last two days maybe more but then it rots. So I keep a empty bucket to rinse/fill then put the pump/lid into the new bucket and repeat. I dont “top it off” its literally swapped but not cleaned. It can last indefinatly like this but always good to bleach the lines/manifolds/halos and pump each run.

Id need to get rid of a tent or wait until winter when portable ac isnt needed and maybe summer if to use home ac but it doesnt cool my room like a portable ac. 2x a day isnt very good in dtw coco Ive never done one grow successfully that way even with 3 gal pots.

Someone here actually does it and claims its fine but my experience wouldnt allow it so I do what I do now. When my roots arent decked out I feel like there are patches in the coco that get salted up and just aint hard for the ecosystem in the pots to be off. Just in my words, like high ph runoff from bacteria and bugs or acidic for reasons I forget, salt build up? 6.0 is good. I havent been into runoff ph for long.

So when I had clones not decked out it got salt build up easier so I had to increase runoff amount and I think I added extra feed per day to correct. When its decked out and feeding in the 5-6x a day range I just get a healthier root system. Theres actually a lot going on in there even in a sterile dtw coco setup.

Are there algae and white salt crystals spotted through out coco on the top where you can see? Are the roots just going crazy poking out the sides of pot all the way up or just the bottom? For it to be sipping so slowly and not drying out visibly bone dry in moderate conditions overnight it just doesnt sound great. I understand cant do much but somwthing to consider, its a pain dealing with 3 gallons.
 
Congrats on the portable ac tho, is it working? I love mine. Im getting a dual hose so I can use it during summer too or else will raise home temps by exausting outside vs using outside air to cool the coil or whatever with hot refrigerant.
 
Pot size will help that, I use half a gallon worth of coco in a one gallon pot. Used to use 3 gallon pots but they required lots of water like what your describing now with just a few plants. I get the same results I mean sure they will have thicker trunks possibly more yield but just adding an extra plant will do it IMO.

If ur room gets higher than 76F its warm enough to rot the rez and ya pool shock or bleach will help and maybe solve it. It didnt for me though. My only option is get a RO filter and or water chiller. I dont have 300-600w to do that and it might not work so hesitant to try.

I just got used to using 5 gal bucket per plant and its own pump. Im enjoying the benefit of being able to give a seperate plant its own ec because it needs half the ec my main plant uses. Shes just a heavy feeder. I do 6 plants max so 6 buckets, 7 oz per plant.

I need to feed 12x a day though unless it has less roots to slurp up water like a straw so it can do 8x a day. 12x a day need refill bucket daily 8x is every 1.5 days. I spend like 5 mins per bucket so 30 mins a morning watering plants. More coco would just ruin it by needing much more water.

If you can get away with 4-6x a day fed it will last two days maybe more but then it rots. So I keep a empty bucket to rinse/fill then put the pump/lid into the new bucket and repeat. I dont “top it off” its literally swapped but not cleaned. It can last indefinatly like this but always good to bleach the lines/manifolds/halos and pump each run.

Id need to get rid of a tent or wait until winter when portable ac isnt needed and maybe summer if to use home ac but it doesnt cool my room like a portable ac. 2x a day isnt very good in dtw coco Ive never done one grow successfully that way even with 3 gal pots.

Someone here actually does it and claims its fine but my experience wouldnt allow it so I do what I do now. When my roots arent decked out I feel like there are patches in the coco that get salted up and just aint hard for the ecosystem in the pots to be off. Just in my words, like high ph runoff from bacteria and bugs or acidic for reasons I forget, salt build up? 6.0 is good. I havent been into runoff ph for long.

So when I had clones not decked out it got salt build up easier so I had to increase runoff amount and I think I added extra feed per day to correct. When its decked out and feeding in the 5-6x a day range I just get a healthier root system. Theres actually a lot going on in there even in a sterile dtw coco setup.

Are there algae and white salt crystals spotted through out coco on the top where you can see? Are the roots just going crazy poking out the sides of pot all the way up or just the bottom? For it to be sipping so slowly and not drying out visibly bone dry in moderate conditions overnight it just doesnt sound great. I understand cant do much but somwthing to consider, its a pain dealing with 3 gallons.
There's no algae but there is salt build up on one of the plants, but strangely enough the 1 with salt build up is my best plant so far. The one that I'm having issues with doesn't have much salt build up on top of the coco. It's hard for me to tell but there is a lot of roots on top of the coco so I dare say there is even more down below.
 
Congrats on the portable ac tho, is it working? I love mine. Im getting a dual hose so I can use it during summer too or else will raise home temps by exausting outside vs using outside air to cool the coil or whatever with hot refrigerant.
Yeah it's working great. We can't get dual hoses in the UK for some reason. I don't know why
 
What does the runoff system look like? You cant just hand water a single plant for runoff readings? Like what is it, a flood tray or how is the runoff drain and get disposed? Theres got to be a way to get a rough reading.
 
What does the runoff system look like? You cant just hand water a single plant for runoff readings? Like what is it, a flood tray or how is the runoff drain and get disposed? Theres got to be a way to get a rough reading.
Absolutely massive plants on a medusa run off system. The plants cannot be moved because the buds are strung up on yoyo's and if i disconnected the yoyo's the buds would end up snapping due to the weight of them.
 
But yea Ive lifted plants with nets and strings it should be fine if you use something super shallow so you dont have to lift it very high. A garbage bag would work, you only need a shot glass of runoff just about. Might be sketchy but its something.

I just use drainaway trays and plug the 3/4” hole and use a big seringe to put into a cup.
 
So the runoff is in the black bucket? Id just empty it out and feed one plant by hand as close to as it would if it were automated.
Yeah but I can't take the lid off the bucket because it will end up smelling like farts (I learned this from past experience) lol

I've got an idea, I can disconnect the plant from the irrigation system and then test the run off since it is the plant at the front of the tent.

It should be pretty easy, I just need to catch the run off with a saucer. I will test the run off later and let you know what it's coming out at
 
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