Let's talk a moment about drug testing.

Wife and I are on different health care plans. Individual plans, EXPENSIVE plans, Wife's plan went up 45 dollars, mine 85. She takes no official meds, I take a few. I got a very smart agent who tempted us to move on for 6 months and then move back to a plan that guarantees 12 month no raises.


I've not heard on my plans but my wife has been told that she is to have a physical. Nope, her medical records aren't enough, a telephone interview is not enough, her height and weight will be checked, blood and urine taken.


Now what the hell could they be wanting to see?

unreported pre existing conditions that are detectable in blood tests could number in the dozens, a sample for each, I don't think the wife has that much blood. Why do a standard sort of life insurance check if wife is a once a year checkup sort of person? (she is).

I figure maybe they are looking for tobacco but the urine? Does anyone think that maybe they are giving her a standard 5 panel drug test?

Would that make sense? I know that most health insurance companies are trying their best not to accept new members if they have so much as a hangnail.


But wouldn't a pot test make a perverted sort of sense to them? I don't know, just thinking out loud but they can't even test for any unreported meds, THAT list is near endless. Lipids? sure, she was told to fast but even that is a sort of corporate insanity. (If you have a high lipid count, then we don't want you or we want a premium. If you are TREATING a high lipid count sucessfully, with a drug that costs us maybe ten cents a day - then you have a pre-existing condition and.... we don't want you either.


Ok? testing for a "hidden" pregnancy? maybe my wife lied about her tubes being tied? or maybe the fact that she is 56 years old didn't register? I dunno.

Now that isn't all. They are not required to divulge the results of the test. So what if they DO find some serious condition, deny her coverage and she doesn't know why?


but the main thing is I just wonder if there are illicit or diversionary drug tests involved. What do you figure?

Never trust an insurance Co. They always look for the most profitable source of income.

IMO, stick with what you have and avoid testing if possible. They may have new rules that you don't
know about that may severely inhibit future insurance or raise costs later on.

Don't trust an agent either, they are salespersons who make money from their dealings. It is all about the cash.

From the health care provider point of view, I would do the drug panel in addition to the other blood work. Hardly any additional cost and gives them "leverage" if needed, especially if any previous applications or enrollment forms have asked about drug/tobacco use. Perhaps this is a CYA outcome of the ObamaCare law(s).

I don't even know about the obama care aspect - I read the whole damn bill before it became law but there are so many altered provisions to other laws in there that I didn't track, there might have easily been something I missed. I understand now that some insurers are attempting to extend their traditional plans through the year so that those who are still on them will not be subject to the new obama care rulings.

funny thing. We got our letters within a few day of each other. both said that the raise in premium was due to the rising cost of health care (one that they contribute to btw), but hers was something like a twelve percent raise in premiums and mine was more like 16. So did the price of health care go up twelve percent last year? or sixteen percent?


Anyway Barnbuster - my wife and I suspect that you are correct. This is a third party testing outfit. It is a monitored test, they come to your place of business or your home, they spring this on you at the last moment - it just smells to me like a drug test - opiates, speed, benzos, pot. I wouldn't put it past the testing companies either - they have a rather powerful presence. Imagine one of their members talking to Cigna or Bluecross "we will sell you these tests in bulk and you can have that much more control over your members - after all, pot smokers have higher incidence of chronic cough and it IS a gateway drug - so if you have a dependency clause you will save some money there"

She just texted me and she is pretty angry about the whole thing. She doesn't smoke pot much but we had been planning on eating some cookies last weekend. Instead we had a little dilaudid session but had to calculate half life and cut her off early just to be on the safe side.


We talked about maybe screwing up the test, by ensuring that each panel would run positive ( we have the capability of course), and then demanding in the name of common sense that the test be retaken, as it would be "obvious" to everyone that they had made a mistake or contaminated a sample.


but the problem here is the problem that the testing outfits love - We WANT the lower premiums so we dont' want any trouble, she managed to postpone the test by another day.


Boys and girls out there in testing land, ALWAYS postpone, and then call again and postpone again - always, even if you are not worried.

ricky1lung said:

Never trust an insurance Co. They always look for the most profitable source of income.

IMO, stick with what you have and avoid testing if possible. They may have new rules that you don't
know about that may severely inhibit future insurance or raise costs later on.

Don't trust an agent either, they are salespersons who make money from their dealings. It is all about the cash.

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Trust? health insurance companies? I LOATH them and I don't trust them for a moment. Unfortunately I know they can cause my life to be seriously disrupted if I don't tell the whole and complete truth to them up front - AND I can't continue to afford to pay them $550 a month for the privilege of their negotiations with third parties - something I am perfectly capable of doing - and do so with ordered tests which winds up cheaper than my insurance company. My meds would cost me less at Wallmart, full price than I pay in co-pays, out of pocket limit is 5k, and I am afraid to go to the doctor for fear that something will be found that willcost me 5,100 dollars, just enough for the bill to come to me at 5k and then a month or two later for the insurance company to claim that I am a higher liability and that if I want to stay insured I will have to pay a 35 percent premium... on my exiting premium.

But that isn't what this site is about, it's about drugs.

Ricky, if I stick to what I have, the rates will go up.

Ive had a physical before where they took a blood and urine sample and no one ever said anything to me nor did anything change lol..... but of course thats only an anecdote.

Or if youre really worried abstain for a while so that your all clear, would knockdown some tolerances as well....

canndo said:

...... you can have that much more control over your members - after all, pot smokers have higher incidence of chronic cough and it IS a gateway drug - .

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If I was a CEO of company, and this was pitched to me, I go for it in a heartbeat.

Did the new policies have any provision for periodic required testing?

They're looking for any way they can to raise your premiums. The insurance industry disgusts me.
Normally they do a general blood work up like cbc and base metabolic, etc. They do a drug test as well. unless you're doing massive quantities of hydromorphone you need an extended test to test for it. They probably run it though, raising 1 guy in 100's rates makes them way more money than the extra cost of teh broader test.

Remember, we are each going to a different carrier than we had before - I had a heart problem a year and a half ago. That raised my premium within a month of the incident and a letter from my doctor after a year of being free from symptoms did no good. So, one of the reasons I am going with another carrier is because I should automaticaly get a reduced rate as the heart incident is no longer on the radar - with a new carrier that is. Secondly, one carrier guarantees no raises in premiums for 6 months, the other a year, so I go with the new carrier for those 6 then jump ship - hoping I don't have any future illnesses, to the other carrier that guarantees a year. That way I should reduce my premiums by 100 - 185 dollars and have that rate stand for at least a year and a half.

Now in my wife's situation, she uses no meds and has had perfect health for the duration of her term with her present carrier - she had a cervical cancer scare several years ago and we had to jump through hoops to get her insured at all, then we switched with the same effect, leaving the precancerous signal behind. We suspect that the reason she is being tested for this new carrier is precisely that - she is not taking any medication and everything comes up clean - at 56 this may be grounds for the new carrier to be suspicious.

Now the way this REALLY works is that we individual policy holders are dumped off to underwriters and THEY insure us to the insurance company so the underwriter is hirinng a third (or is it fourth) party to do the testing, reporting back to the underwriter and the underwriter either says they will underwrite her policy or they will not - no answers need be given us - and we hand them all of our medical records which are stored for an undetermined amount of time to be used as the underwriter will.


I went through the telephone exam last time. I was insured by a "lump sum" insurer - don't EVER do that. "Hospital stay? $2500 per day up to 60 days", Heart attack? $120k period." They pay YOU and then they go away regardless of the actual cost. You'd figure that 2.5k per day would be just fine wouldn't you - um... nope.

When I found out how poor this thing was "Mega Health" if you want to know.... I had to find someone else and it was tough. The telephone interview is conducted by a disgruntled doctor - I don't know, extra money on the side? problems with the state board? someone with no business sense enough to perpetuate their own practice?

Anyway he wanted to know all the drugs I was taking - typical me would say "you have the records, you tell me". But I NEEDED the thing so I went along like a scared puppy.

Then he said "how long and what sort of problem do you have with your prostate" I was floored, I have not yet had prostrate problems, was he fishing? I said "I have no prostate problems", and then he said, "yes you do, you have a prescription for flowmax. I had to think, and think and finally I realized that I had been given a single bottle of flowmax when I had a kidney stone. "they don't prescribe flomax for kidney stones" he said. I told him regardless of that, I was only prescribed a single bottle and if he had all that information on me he should know that.

He called a second time and demanded current blood pressure numbers - I made some up on the spot and I guess I slid through for $340 a month, until it went up 6 months later to $380 and then after the heart thing - $490, now add their threat to raise it another$85 and you can see where this is all headed.

BarnBuster said:

Did the new policies have any provision for periodic required testing?

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No, but remember we are going for another carrier so there is no contract and they can demand any damn thing they want.

We cut my wife off on Monday morning (we have three day weekends in this household) and the last amount she took at around noon was 2 mg. Her test is scheduled for thursday morning. Half life is 5.8 hours, she is not a frequent user but her last use was the previous weekend - a grand total of 8 mg. I really don't think she is going to have a problem. If they test for benzos, well, maybe but even here - a mg a week ago.


This is still very annoying and bothersome and intrusive, we both have positions where drug use is not an issue and tests are never performed, my last pee in a cup was maybe 8 years ago. I stalled it for two weeks. When they got upset about that I told them to make my job provisional on passing the test, I don't recall but I think I was waiting on some long half life thing or other and just wanted to be sure.

Drug testing doesn't catch drug users, it just catches stupid people - maybe that is a good thing.

canndo said:

Trust? health insurance companies? I LOATH them and I don't trust them for a moment. Unfortunately I know they can cause my life to be seriously disrupted if I don't tell the whole and complete truth to them up front - AND I can't continue to afford to pay them $550 a month for the privilege of their negotiations with third parties - something I am perfectly capable of doing - and do so with ordered tests which winds up cheaper than my insurance company. My meds would cost me less at Wallmart, full price than I pay in co-pays, out of pocket limit is 5k, and I am afraid to go to the doctor for fear that something will be found that willcost me 5,100 dollars, just enough for the bill to come to me at 5k and then a month or two later for the insurance company to claim that I am a higher liability and that if I want to stay insured I will have to pay a 35 percent premium... on my exiting premium.

But that isn't what this site is about, it's about drugs.

Ricky, if I stick to what I have, the rates will go up.

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Right, you mentioned they will go up anyways. Im saying they could climb further if they find something they dont like or they may choose not
to insure you at all.

Let me dig up some info of a Co, that collects health data for insurance co's. I will post it back here for you.

ricky1lung said:

Right, you mentioned they will go up anyways. Im saying they could climb further if they find something they dont like or they may choose not
to insure you at all.

Let me dig up some info of a Co, that collects health data for insurance co's. I will post it back here for you.

Click to expand...

But the thing is that I AM insured and my present carrier is demanding nothing but another $85 a month from me. If I go elsewhere and they say they will not ensure me, at least I am still insured with the first place. Of course I am not going to quit one without having another.

Your wife should be fine. Have her drink a lot of fluids to be safe.

I 100% think that all the testing done by health insurance companies is because of the prescription drug abuse that's rampant in america, and the amount of money made by doctors/amount paid by insurance companies because of it... marijuana (and other recreational users) are screwed in-turn, because doctors BANK off of pissing away prescriptions, and people get hooked thinking that just because their doctor prescribed it, it's ok to take as much as I want.

Not a damn insurance company is out there to HELP you, they're only there to take your damn money every month, and then when you need them, find a way to NOT PAY your bills, and then the leaders of these companies are living lavishly. I can get HI privately through my company and have it go up every damn year, but I choose to get it "free" through my wife who works for the city... every year she has more requirements as well like taking classes to learn healthier lifestyles and such... she decided not to take the yearly class and our copay doubled. Why, if you learn how to live healthier, do you have to re-learn the same shit once a year?

I've recently been forced into a 'testing' situation as well Canndo, and I'm not at all happy about it. Only thing you cann...do (slight punn intended) is be more careful with what you chose to do in your spare time. Good luck sorting this out, as I'd rather go back to Iraq than have to figure out a decent health care option for my wife and I who also only see a damn doctor if our legs are falling off...

Well, we will do what we can, and Duck, I agree, she shouldn't have a problem. I am always careful about what I do in my spare time, but that usually precludes others prying into those very things.

Well she took the tests, although the operative didn't know shit about what was being done she took two vials of blood and two samples of pee. She said that as far as she knew this was no different than life insurance testing. Test for HIV (but she said that was commonly done with a mouth swab?), test for nicotine and she said that it was entire possible that there would be as much as a panel test on her urine.

so now, forgive the pun, i'm pissed. not because she won't pass but because this insurance company would have the audacity to test for illicit drugs as a part of some sort of screening process for health insurance prospectives. What the hell has any of that to do with health insurance?

I know they screw with us in other ways, we can find no plan that doesn't include pregnancy and well baby, even though we aren't going to ever need that, I know they always offer substance addictiveness provisions (now one never knows, but I don't have the choice to opt out of that).

The point being, that they claim to be pooling resources to moderate risk but at the same time they "redline" different groups in order to winnow out those that might cost them more - how about redlining between those beyond child bearing age and the rest of us? in other words, we pay for something that we will never ever need, in an ordinary insurance situation, that is an acceptable portion of the whole but in this case, if they are doing it, then why shouldn't we?