Lets get dirty

im4satori

im4satori

Well-Known Member
so im started a new journal abandoning my rockwool/dtw set up and switching over to dirt

nothing against the hydro, I love it!
just been doing it for years and want to try my hand and learn something new

lighting
flower 3- 1000 watt DE (4x12 area)
veg 4- 400 watt T5 (4x8 area)

12 plants... 3 under each light

long veg with pruning/topping several times... the plan is to take clones off the plant just before she flips to 12/12 and repeat.. so the veg and clone time will be equal to the flowering time so that's about 2 weeks to clone and 6 to 7 weeks veg (the veg is a bit long but it eliminates the need to maintain a mother/donor)

starting with clones
pot size 6" 50/50 ocean forest/happy frog

second/current pot size 3 gallon ocean forest

next/last pots size 5 gallons ocean forest

currently there in the 3 gallon containers with about 3 weeks of veg left until space opens up

I just top fed them 1/2 tsp calcium nitrate &1/4 tsp Epsom salt 2 days ago and it was clearly to much N
(note to self, next time only use 1/4 tsp)

current strains all from clone

2 lemon kush (very og kush pheno)
2 querkle (2 phenos)
1 sour kush
1 og#18
4 satoriF2 (3 phenos 18,19,21)
2 S.A.P dank (very short blueberry muffin)
 
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im4satori

im4satori

Well-Known Member
I will prune/top the taller OGK ones 1 more time about 2 weeks before 12/12
(in about 1 week)

and plan to transplant from 3 gallon into 5 gallon pots 1 or 2 week before 12/12
suggestion????? is there a reason to avoid transplanting within a certain time frame before switching to 12/12?
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
im4satori said:
View attachment 3927061

saving my eggshells and making flour
Click to expand...
looks good man, just don't overdo it on the eggshells, it can be done..
they break down SO slowly, and if you are using oyster flour, crab shell, or shrimp meal you may wanna go light on it.
it's rare that too much calcium is an issue but you don't wanna go there.
and if you are like me, you'll find that your freezer will accumulate food for your worms faster than you can use it.
 
im4satori

im4satori

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
looks good man, just don't overdo it on the eggshells, it can be done..
they break down SO slowly, and if you are using oyster flour, crab shell, or shrimp meal you may wanna go light on it.
it's rare that too much calcium is an issue but you don't wanna go there.
and if you are like me, you'll find that your freezer will accumulate food for your worms faster than you can use it.
Click to expand...
if / when I use the egg shell/calcium/lime

ittl be part of a mix not to exceed the recipe measurement
for example if it calls for 1 cup lime... it would be 1 cup total of some combination of eggshell, oyster shell, dolomite, gypsum

I haven't used any yet...just going to save it for when I amend
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
im4satori said:
if / when I use the egg shell/calcium/lime

ittl be part of a mix not to exceed the recipe measurement
for example if it calls for 1 cup lime... it would be 1 cup total of some combination of eggshell, oyster shell, dolomite, gypsum

I haven't used any yet...just going to save it for when I amend
Click to expand...
hmm, well be careful there.. they do the same "job" but at different release rates, and different nutrients that accompany them.
so even though the oyster shell and d-lime end up controlling acidity they do indeed do different things altogether.

if you are gonna make an aged/cycled soil with compost and such you'd be better off with the oyster flour/crab meal/egg shells

if you are amending an existing soil mix then the d-lime would be better.

also keep in mind that the gypsum doesn't do much with the PH, at least not in like a typical liming ingredient.
It's a lil confusing, because gypsum can alleviate extremely acidic soils

here's a copy and paste.

Gypsum Effects On Soil pH
This topic can get a little confusing due to the chemistry and causes of soil acidity, and the different ways in which lime and gypsum react in the soil. The short answer is that pure gypsum will not affect the pH of the topsoil when surface applied or incorporated by typical methods. However, gypsum is able to offset some of the toxic effects of extremely acid subsoil, in some soil types. Gypsum may even increase the pH of those subsoils to some degree. These seemingly contradictory statements can be explained by the differences in the chemistry between lime and gypsum, plus the somewhat unique nature of most acid subsoils.

Some people think that gypsum will increase soil pH. This belief is apparently based on fact that gypsum contains a significant amount of Ca. Without getting too deeply into the chemistry of lime, a short description of how lime works will help to illustrate why gypsum will not neutralize soil acid.

Typical agricultural lime is primarily composed of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) and magnesium carbonate (MgCO3). The principle acid-neutralizing power of agricultural lime is caused by the carbonate (CO3) in both the calcium carbonate (CaCO3) and magnesium carbonate (MgCO3), not so much by the Ca nor Mg. Both lime minerals work in the same way to neutralize acid. Soil acid is defined as the hydrogen ion (H+) content of the soil. To neutralize this acid, any soil amendment must either convert the H+ into another non-acidic form of H or cause the minerals which generate the H+ to stop or slow that process. Carbonates act directly upon the H+ by causing it to combine with carbon dioxide (CO2) to form water (see illustration). Since gypsum does not change the form of soil H+ there is no change in soil pH.

hers another good read on it.
In my mind gypsum is great to use, but only if you do so astutely.
Great source of sulfur, if you don't have it elsewhere.
good for calcium too, but most amended soils don't need that

For the record i don't use gypsum, but it's only because i have calcium in a lot of my inputs.
sulfur too.

Heres another read on it.

http://www.gardenguides.com/108474-gypsum-vs-lime-soil.html
 
im4satori

im4satori

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
hmm, well be careful there.. they do the same "job" but at different release rates, and different nutrients that accompany them.
so even though the oyster shell and d-lime end up controlling acidity they do indeed do different things altogether.

if you are gonna make an aged/cycled soil with compost and such you'd be better off with the oyster flour/crab meal/egg shells

if you are amending an existing soil mix then the d-lime would be better.

also keep in mind that the gypsum doesn't do much with the PH, at least not in like a typical liming ingredient.
It's a lil confusing, because gypsum can alleviate extremely acidic soils

here's a copy and paste.

Gypsum Effects On Soil pH
This topic can get a little confusing due to the chemistry and causes of soil acidity, and the different ways in which lime and gypsum react in the soil. The short answer is that pure gypsum will not affect the pH of the topsoil when surface applied or incorporated by typical methods. However, gypsum is able to offset some of the toxic effects of extremely acid subsoil, in some soil types. Gypsum may even increase the pH of those subsoils to some degree. These seemingly contradictory statements can be explained by the differences in the chemistry between lime and gypsum, plus the somewhat unique nature of most acid subsoils.

Some people think that gypsum will increase soil pH. This belief is apparently based on fact that gypsum contains a significant amount of Ca. Without getting too deeply into the chemistry of lime, a short description of how lime works will help to illustrate why gypsum will not neutralize soil acid.

Typical agricultural lime is primarily composed of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) and magnesium carbonate (MgCO3). The principle acid-neutralizing power of agricultural lime is caused by the carbonate (CO3) in both the calcium carbonate (CaCO3) and magnesium carbonate (MgCO3), not so much by the Ca nor Mg. Both lime minerals work in the same way to neutralize acid. Soil acid is defined as the hydrogen ion (H+) content of the soil. To neutralize this acid, any soil amendment must either convert the H+ into another non-acidic form of H or cause the minerals which generate the H+ to stop or slow that process. Carbonates act directly upon the H+ by causing it to combine with carbon dioxide (CO2) to form water (see illustration). Since gypsum does not change the form of soil H+ there is no change in soil pH.

hers another good read on it.
In my mind gypsum is great to use, but only if you do so astutely.
Great source of sulfur, if you don't have it elsewhere.
good for calcium too, but most amended soils don't need that

For the record i don't use gypsum, but it's only because i have calcium in a lot of my inputs.
sulfur too.

Heres another read on it.

http://www.gardenguides.com/108474-gypsum-vs-lime-soil.html
Click to expand...
on the egg shell I understand what your saying about the release rate varying

in my amndments

I chose the ph adjusting lime use in the build a new soil recipe to offset the peat

but I chose gypsum (and crab meal) intentionally in the re-amendment because it, gypsum, doesn't affect the soil ph

currently my soil is about ph 7.0 when tested
and im watering with ph 7.3 well water
so I don't know that I need to use ph adjusting lime in the re-amendment on an indoor grow that's not being soaked with low ph acid rain

also this fox farm soil is clearly low on calcium from the bag

I also noticed...the build a soil site also eliminates the lime and uses gypsum in its place for the re-amendment mix

does that seem to hold water????
 
im4satori

im4satori

Well-Known Member
714steadyeddie said:
Nice grow op and killer strains. Are you trying to go the organic route im assuming ?
That worm bins looks like it will do the job. I want to make one as well.

I'm subbed for this ride.
Click to expand...
yes
im going organic

that's not to say I wont use salt fertilizers if I end up with a def and need a quick response fix

my ultimate goal is to not need the chem fertilizers... but until I get a handle on it I will lean on whats familiar before suffering thru issues.... so for now its use them as little as possible

I started out in foxfarm ocean forest
if had to do it again I would have started with own potting soil and I might not be looking for salt fertilizer..
the fox farm burned out of nutes in about 4 weeks

ive top dress with 2 oz of organic tomato fertilizer and worm castings about a week ago so hopefully those will be kicking in shortly and reduce my need for salt fert supplements

currently im seeing some mild def in K and Mg....but theres plenty of N
 
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