LED Grow Lights vs. HID

ellax

ellax

Active Member
LED Grow Lights.com - Comparison of LEDs and HID




LED Grow LightsStandard HIDTunable spectrumYESNoPAR100%30-35%Typical bulb temperature105 OF1,200 OFRecommended minimum distance from plants1 inch (single color)24 inchesService life50,000 hours20,000 hoursInstant restart YESNo Can use low voltageYESNoPrimary spectrum outputRed and blueYellow and greenFire hazardNOYesBallast requiredNOYesNoiseNO- SilentYes






I use the sun but has anyone used LED?
 
Ronjohn7779

Ronjohn7779

Well-Known Member
As far as I'm concerned there is no comparison. HID all the way. The only thing LED's best HIDs on is the lack of heat. Watt for watt I'd stick with HID.
 
darkdestruction420

darkdestruction420

Well-Known Member
They are not an impartial source of info, they sell led lights, for alot of money so of course they are going to promote their product. The lights they sell all look really crappy and generic, you could also find them cheaper on many sites because most leds technically put out the right wavelength area but what they dont tell you is they are not at the exact wavelength for best growing plants. The proper led bulbs for growing are more expensive so the cheap led growlights mass produced in factories overseas use inferior for growing wavelength leds instead of the good ones to increase their profits.
 
Ronjohn7779

Ronjohn7779

Well-Known Member
Spuzzum said:
From what I've been seeing, they create way tighter buds than a hid, and those with success, have all said way more crystal than hid! .. Why would you want a hid??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCXhj0iP0Mc
Click to expand...
Thats just silly. Are you trying to say HID's don't make dense nugs? The dankest densest nugs come from HID lighting. You really can't dispute that fact. Someone on here posted a 800w LED grow...That was one weak sauce grow compared to similar HID grows in the 750w range. LED's will be amazingly great technology in about 5-10 years. Right now they're nothing more than novelty. HID's and CFL's are way more effective compared to the current LED technology available. Nothing really beats HIDs yet, they have the largest spectrum of light, the deepest penetration, and are fairly economical.

LED V.S. CFLs are a closer comparison. CFL's seem to win out in total yield, but I've seen much danker weed come out of LED grows. The only thing that really hampers LED's are the price. They just cost way too much for what you're getting.

I'd only recommend LED's if you're low on space and don't want to deal with heat issues, and still wanted quality weed at the sacrifice of some yields.

P.S. that video you posted seems to be from an LED manufacture. They'll make all sorts of claims to get you to buy that product. He harvested over 1 gram per watt. Thats a bit unbelievable for most growers. I'm not say he didn't do it, but it seems suspect. I'm sure results vary between users.
 
Pureblood89

Pureblood89

Well-Known Member
I was just looking and saw this thread has 28,000 views and only 11 posts... Nobody wants to touch this one, an old expression comes to mind, "I wouldn't fuck her with your dick!" haha but seriously the relevancy is funny.
 
Spuzzum

Spuzzum

Well-Known Member
Ronjohn7779 said:
Thats just silly. Are you trying to say HID's don't make dense nugs? The dankest densest nugs come from HID lighting. You really can't dispute that fact. Someone on here posted a 800w LED grow...That was one weak sauce grow compared to similar HID grows in the 750w range. LED's will be amazingly great technology in about 5-10 years. Right now they're nothing more than novelty. HID's and CFL's are way more effective compared to the current LED technology available. Nothing really beats HIDs yet, they have the largest spectrum of light, the deepest penetration, and are fairly economical.

LED V.S. CFLs are a closer comparison. CFL's seem to win out in total yield, but I've seen much danker weed come out of LED grows. The only thing that really hampers LED's are the price. They just cost way too much for what you're getting.

I'd only recommend LED's if you're low on space and don't want to deal with heat issues, and still wanted quality weed at the sacrifice of some yields.

P.S. that video you posted seems to be from an LED manufacture. They'll make all sorts of claims to get you to buy that product. He harvested over 1 gram per watt. Thats a bit unbelievable for most growers. I'm not say he didn't do it, but it seems suspect. I'm sure results vary between users.
Click to expand...
Actually dude, the video was from a mod at thcfarmer...
http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f8/theherbalizors-penetrator-345w-test-23349/

Yes, hid gives tight buds.. but if just hps, not as tight. Led doesn't make 'em stretch, so they remain tighter. Every journal I've come across, they've all said the same thing.. tighter and waaay stickier.


Cheers........
 
Hudsonvalley82

Hudsonvalley82

Well-Known Member
I grow with both, there are clear advantages to each, they are comparable on every level. There even are certain low priced, good quality suppliers that keep the prices low...

Ronjohn7779 said:
As far as I'm concerned there is no comparison. HID all the way. The only thing LED's best HIDs on is the lack of heat. Watt for watt I'd stick with HID.
Click to expand...
 
chazbolin

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
darkdestruction420 said:
Induction lighting will be/is the future of grow lights. Plasma will replace hid, and magnetic induction lights will replace flourescent lighting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_light
it will be a while till plasma grow lights come down in price i think though. they are way overpriced just like the first led lights were at first.
Click to expand...
pretty good looking grow journal using induction right on this forum@

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/401594-blue-dream-800w-induction-lights.html

pull up a chair
 
Hudsonvalley82

Hudsonvalley82

Well-Known Member
J

jdizzle22

Well-Known Member
Ronjohn7779 said:
As far as I'm concerned there is no comparison. HID all the way. The only thing LED's best HIDs on is the lack of heat. Watt for watt I'd stick with HID.
Click to expand...
Watt for Watt good LED lights can outgrow Mh and HPS now. Its really quite obvious they should be able to do this with HID lights wasting 80% of their power and LED lights wasting less than 10% (usually they say they are 95% efficient and HID lights are 20% or less). Although if you put a great 400w LED against a 400w HPS there wouldn't be say a 50% yield difference, but the LED should grow more. Here are some great LED grows for anyone who doubts you can go seed to harvest with LED and get great products (one of these following grows using LED won plant of the month and was the first LED plant to have won the award).

http://www.420magazine.com/forums/journals-progress/132192-irish-boys-480w-720w-grow-led-hydro-land-clovers.html
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/completed-journals/123361-growledhydros-600w-led-vs-600w-hps-irie.html
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/completed-journals/124858-setting-suns-growledhydro-300w-led-vs-400w-hid-demonstration.html
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/completed-journals/105950-led-grow-test-xxx-vs-180w.html
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/journals-progress/112167-irish-boys-glh-600w-led-grow.html
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/journals-progress/120973-irishboys-1080w-glh-inferno.html

Irish boy has been using www.growledhydro.com Spectra LED lights
here is a link that shows pics of the new 2011 models and some of their specs (website is out of date)
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/journals-progress/132192-irish-boys-480w-720w-grow-led-hydro-land-clovers-49.html

I plan on getting two 240w Spectras myself over the coming weeks.

And yeah I checked out all the growledhydro Spectra grows I could find on that website. Watt for watt they grow a little more than MH/HPS, and they appear to grow higher quality pot (same smell and taste as MH/HPS but stronger). But I would still tell people that as amazing as LED lights have become, that the heat issues are really the only big reason to switch to LED from HID because they are a lot more expensive up front (although you wouldn't need to have supporting hardware (fans, ballasts, venting, etc) for the LED like you would the HID).
 
Spuzzum

Spuzzum

Well-Known Member
More expensive up front for the lights, but less money spent on fans, air-cooled hood/cool-tube, and less the cost of replacing hid bulbs once or twice a year. They say "10 years" for these panels, but the reef tank community says 5 years is more realistic. So even if you need to replace every 5 years.. they're still cheaper in the long run. I also like the fact that the spectrum is fine-tuned. HPS is lacking in blue, so many supplement hps with mh at 3:1 or so.. extra money and "space" required though. And more heat. HPS also drops considerably after 610nm.. so no FarRed or InfraRed.

I also like the fact that an led fixture is less than 5" in depth/thickness. A HID bulb itself is thicker than that. And an air-cooled hood's what.. 10" to 12"? And a cool-tube's what.. 6" to 8"? The led fixture allows a bit more headroom for a smaller space.. which in the long run, means a few inches more of garden growth within that smaller space. :)

One thing I am concerned with though... I saw the insides of a certain manufacturer's panel.. just a plain 'ol aluminum plate as the heatsink. Thing should be finned. If the led's are even warm to the touch.. they're too hot. I have a feeling a lot of panels are going to start dying in a year or 2.

Here's a "reef tank" type heatsink. They use less led's than our grows, yet their heatsinks are pretty heavy duty. These guys have been using these led's a lot longer than us gardeners.. they know these things inside and out. ;)
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1587273
 
J

jdizzle22

Well-Known Member
Spuzzum said:
More expensive up front for the lights, but less money spent on fans, air-cooled hood/cool-tube, and less the cost of replacing hid bulbs once or twice a year. They say "10 years" for these panels, but the reef tank community says 5 years is more realistic. So even if you need to replace every 5 years.. they're still cheaper in the long run. I also like the fact that the spectrum is fine-tuned. HPS is lacking in blue, so many supplement hps with mh at 3:1 or so.. extra money and "space" required though. And more heat. HPS also drops considerably after 610nm.. so no FarRed or InfraRed.

I also like the fact that an led fixture is less than 5" in depth/thickness. A HID bulb itself is thicker than that. And an air-cooled hood's what.. 10" to 12"? And a cool-tube's what.. 6" to 8"? The led fixture allows a bit more headroom for a smaller space.. which in the long run, means a few inches more of garden growth within that smaller space. :)

One thing I am concerned with though... I saw the insides of a certain manufacturer's panel.. just a plain 'ol aluminum plate as the heatsink. Thing should be finned. If the led's are even warm to the touch.. they're too hot. I have a feeling a lot of panels are going to start dying in a year or 2.

Here's a "reef tank" type heatsink. They use less led's than our grows, yet their heatsinks are pretty heavy duty. These guys have been using these led's a lot longer than us gardeners.. they know these things inside and out. ;)
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1587273
Click to expand...
Yeah 5 years / 50,000 hours is what I usually hear. I don't know of any LED light that uses finned heat sinks, but I do know that growledhydro Spectra lights got rid of the... PCE? That computer looking mother board type stuff so he could put the light directly on the heat sink for more efficient cooling. I don't know if his actual heat sinks are anything special though, his new 2011 models haven't been around long enough for anyone to take them apart themselves. I'm gonna shoot Mike a question on his heat sinks and see what he has to say. He put a lot of work into making his lights last long so I imagine he must have done something special with the heat sink itself.
 
Spuzzum

Spuzzum

Well-Known Member
I believe the panel dunit's using has finned heatsink. The same thread showed the Blackstar with just the plain aluminum sheet.
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/386508-hempstar-3-stage-led-grow-7.html

But as you say, the manufacturer has reduced the currents, so they'd run cooler for sure. But that would mean less intensity, so there's a trade-off. Which is better.. more light with better heatsinking, or less light with simple heatsinking?

Sorry, I don't mean to sound like a cynic, but I've seen a lot of "slap 'em together and pump 'em out" products these days as it is coming from China. And I guess I'm a DIY'er, so I always think I can make it better.. don't we all? :D

Then again, my own panel I'm drawing up, 127 cree's set at 2w each, would actually use 295w just to make a 250w fixture. Sounds in-line with the factory built units:
http://www.growledhydro.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=0

But I still think the "wastage" can be reduced somewhat. And that's using a 350w atx power supply as the power source.

The 3.3v rail reads 3.4v, so I'm choosing Cree XP-E's for the blues and whites, as they're 3.4v @ 700mA.. more efficient that way. The 660nm's I bought and the LedEngin 735nm's, use 2.5v and 2.4v respectively.. so they're connecting to the 5v rail. That leaves 420nm, 620nm, and 630nm connected to the 12v rail.

3.3v/3.4v rail = 21 amps
5.0v rail = 20 amps
12v rail = 8.2 amps

This 350w psu has a rating of:

3.3v @ 28 amps
5.0v @ 32 amps
12v @ 16 amps


I may even split the lights over 2 psu's, or pick up a 450w unit. The 350w unit was only $10 at FreeGeeks, and they had a 450w CoolerMaster for $20. Considering a MeanWell driver for 8-14 led's goes for $125.. and my panel has 127 diodes.. the psu sounds like the better option. I've already read a few tech forums where others have done the same, so I do know it's possible. And a good friend, a "super tech", is helping me along the way.. telling me exactly what's possible and what's not. .. Good to have friends like that. :)
 
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