LED - 660nm + 730nm - Emerson effect = WtHeck :P

Have2

Have2

Well-Known Member
I am considering adding 660nm+730nm for Emerson effect, but after some reading, I found out that 660nm is to wake plants and 730nm is to put them to sleep. I wanted to take advantage of the 730nm to change the light cycle to 13/11 or maybe 13.5/10.5 to get more photosynthesis... What is happening when the strips, including 660 and 730, are on for 15 minutes after light's off?

Is separate strips the only way to go? Is only adding 730nm to use the 13-13.5 cycle more effective?

Current led is samsung fstrip gen3 @ 3000k

Any thoughts?
 
mauricem00 said:
run 660nm during lights on and use 730nm for 15 min after lights off
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finally, not a good suggestion at all ;)

If you want the emerson effect, you have to run both light during the "day". If you want to make your girls go to sleep sooner, then you have to run the 730nm for few minutes after lights are off THEN, you can increase the light on period vs dark period AND, you get to benefit the emerson.
 
Have2 said:
I went the DIY way, you get so much more for the same amount of money! =)
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WORDS OF FUCKING WISDOM
keep your mind on your money and your money on your mind

this has been my primary weakness as a grower. when i first got into this 10 years ago, i was so excited and wasted so much money on all the new cool toys i could play with. this industry has a long line of vendors waiting to bleed us dry over things that could be DIY. even if we have the benjis we just gotta stop and say... do i really need that? sure, that 1200.00 digital microscope would be so useful, and how cool to play with, i could get a lab coat, and take crazy zoom pics of the chomes, but do i really need that?
 
elibaltutiimaidumituti said:
WORDS OF FUCKING WISDOM
keep your mind on your money and your money on your mind

this has been my primary weakness as a grower. when i first got into this 10 years ago, i was so excited and wasted so much money on all the new cool toys i could play with. this industry has a long line of vendors waiting to bleed us dry over things that could be DIY. even if we have the benjis we just gotta stop and say... do i really need that? sure, that 1200.00 digital microscope would be so useful, and how cool to play with, i could get a lab coat, and take crazy zoom pics of the chomes, but do i really need that?
Click to expand...
of course you need that, and with the lab coat, you'll look great and professional :D
 
elibaltutiimaidumituti said:
WORDS OF FUCKING WISDOM
keep your mind on your money and your money on your mind

this has been my primary weakness as a grower. when i first got into this 10 years ago, i was so excited and wasted so much money on all the new cool toys i could play with. this industry has a long line of vendors waiting to bleed us dry over things that could be DIY. even if we have the benjis we just gotta stop and say... do i really need that? sure, that 1200.00 digital microscope would be so useful, and how cool to play with, i could get a lab coat, and take crazy zoom pics of the chomes, but do i really need that?
Click to expand...

Really good point. Especially considering that indoor growing started with stolen street lights and miracle gro! :bigjoint:
 
What is the Emerson Effect?


The Emerson effect, discovered by Robert Emerson is the increase in the rate of photosynthesis after chloroplasts are exposed to light of wavelength 680 nm (deep red spectrum) and more than 680 nm (far red spectrum).
When simultaneously exposed to light of both wavelengths, the rate of photosynthesis is far higher than the sum of the red light and far red light photosynthesis rates. The effect was early evidence that two photo-systems, processing different wavelengths, cooperate in photosynthesis.
LED Grow Light How It Works


When Emerson exposed green plants to differing wavelengths of light, he noticed that at wavelengths of greater than 680 nm the efficiency of photosynthesis decreased abruptly despite the fact that this is a region of the spectrum where chlorophyll still absorbs light (chlorophyll is the green pigment in plants – it absorbs mainly the red and blue wavelengths from light, leaving the green light to bounce back and hit our eyes). When the plants were exposed to short-wavelength light, (less than 660 nm), the efficiency also decreased. Emerson then exposed the plants to both short and long wavelengths at the same time, causing the efficiency to increase greatly. He concluded that there must be two different photosystems involved in photosynthesis, one driven by short-wavelength light and one driven by long-wavelength (PS1 and PS2). They work together to enhance efficiency and convert the light energy to forms that can be absorbed by the plant.
The light excites the chlorophyll molecules at the reaction centre and causes an increase in energy. As the molecule becomes less excited, its energy is transported through a chain of electron carriers to the next photosystem which does much the same thing and produces energy-carrying organic molecules.

How It Works

Lear about the emerson effect and how its effects on photosynthesis can reduce growing times and increase crop yields through light manipulation alone
aigrowlight.com aigrowlight.com
 
The Emerson-enhancement-effect is mostly about to fire more photons into Photosystem I - which is smaller (only half the size of Photosystem II) in order to prevent that PSI limits the whole process of photosynthesis, like a bottleneck.

So what Emerson found is that the absorption of lightwave in situ & in vivo - that is, in the leaf during actual photosynthesis, is redshifted (based on a number of factors - up to 780nm) and that the Light-Harvesting-Complexes (LHC) distribute these photons more into PSI than II. (Actually it's more complicated, and has to do with the various forms of chlorophylls(-subtypes) and accessory pigments).

The basic problem is that when the Reaction Center (p680) of PSII is excitated - but needs to wait until PSI takes over "the workload" - then, during this time/pause, most photonic bombardement of the LHC of PSII is futile and may create mostly heat in excess, some fluorescence, and some stable energy (the two latter can be used later or somewhere else, while the former "heat" is just a waste).

So the inclusion of FR light (preferably 680nm-750nm) into the general spectrum makes that your plants can use your whole growlight more efficiently. So it's not like these 660+730nm combos add "some more light" (they ofc do) but they should (theoretically) give more return than what they invest in umols. And I write "theoretically" because this is sort of dependant on the spectrum of your main-growlight - it may already possess enough darkred-wavelengths already....
 
Here in this diagram you can see the differences in excitation between the two photosystems:
IMG_20201030_022932~2.jpg
From "Photobiologie" by L. O. Björn

The PSI drop @ 652nm is created by Chlorophyl-b - which mostly distributes energy towards PSII.
That basically means that 660nm reds would not be sufficient alone to create a better electron-flow (or: to do away with that PSI bottleneck).

If one wants to get the idea, one just needs to look at the suns immense inclusion of red, darkred (FR/IR) to see, why alot of LED spectra are, sort of, incomplete - or better: "in development" :P.
Well, the new Samsung lm301h-ONE chip did muster up in that regard a bit... (also on green, but that is an entire different story... :blsmoke:)
 
athlete said:
TY jimiznhb
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No problem .... I have been on this schedule for about 18 Months:
1st 30 Minutes = Only 620-630nm RED & 660nm Deep Red .....
then 11½ hours of FULL Lights from 380nm - 780nm & 3000K & 4000K & UVF & IR ....
Last 30 Minutes = Only 620-630nm RED & 660nm Deep Red .....

Plants seem to do GOOD LOTS of TRICHOMES :D
 
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