is a 600 watt too much for this???

Hey guys and gals im going to be building my grow room soon. Im going to be using a portable closet, 2 actually and im nailing them together and then im going to chaulk the gaps and cracks. Anyways im going to be working with these dimentions...height: 68 inches, width:28.5 inches and depth: 38 inches!! Would a 600 watt light be too much for this space. Remember though that ill be running 2 sets of fans...one set for the heat from the light. Ill be using the aircooled reflector and ill be hooking up some duct tubing to each side of the light. Ill be having one inline fan blowing cool air in and another to suck the hot air out. The second set will be the cool air intake from the bottom of the box and ill have onther near the top sucking out the smell and hot air and it will be runned though a carcoal filter!! Please let me know what you peeps think!! Thanks and heres a bowl for ya's!!!

overkill by the sounds of it... i run a 400W in a 3x3x6ft room

More light more bud, i wish i had cash for a 600watt HPS, im using a 400 watt and they don't come out too dense and i keep that sucker as close as i can with out burning my baby's

lou~dog said:

More light more bud,

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Not necessarily. The law of limiting factors dictates that whichever factor (eg light level, co2 level, amount of nutes, amount of water) is at the lowest level will define the rate of growth. So that means that using a more powerful light will only increase yield if light is the limiting factor

What are nutes?? I see it all the time but have no idea what it means!! Im a noob!!

True Stoner said:

What are nutes?? I see it all the time but have no idea what it means!! Im a noob!!

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Nutes = Nutriments and Boost you mix with water when u give water to your plants

Ok so what i was thinking was that i would like to have a digital temp controller/sensor. That way there i know what my temp will always be at since its in a small space and i dont want heat to be an issue. Can someone help me out witha link for a good quality one please. I would also like for it to have a sensor as well so when it gets too hot a secondary fan will kick in and cool the space down. What do you think of this idea?/ I see it on others grow rooms. Also when im setting up shop where does the ballast sit?? Out side of the box or in?? I know if its in a closet it would be in the closet. Thanks for the definition of nutes!! Thank you

Also what is the proper amount of nutes to start with?? I was going to buy a book about growing but this site is wwwwaaayyyy better then the books.You guys and gals are really knowledgeable!!!

i fit a 600 in my closet thats 2ft deep and 7ft wide. its air cooled and i think its barley a little too much heat for the room.
I would consider weither or not u have AC it could help u a lot too. i didnt so my whole house is hot, not to mention its summer. but if ur gonna have 2 fans for one light i think you have a chance with the additional venting and a controller... if money is NO matter i would go for it.

after jus doing the math and seeing u have less than 6 ft of clearance unless the fan setup u have in mind is super efficient you'll probably be better off with a 400W. but if u put that in a vented hood you could put the light closer and be just as happy

this site is sweet but i have a really really legit book for growing dank its by "Gregg Green" its goes into so many aspects, cost, security, curing, etc.
goodluck!

Sorry peeps i forgot to mention that this will be in my basement where is nice and cool and winter is on its way soon so i have that on my side.

Sir Walter Raleigh said:

after jus doing the math and seeing u have less than 6 ft of clearance unless the fan setup u have in mind is super efficient you'll probably be better off with a 400W. but if u put that in a vented hood you could put the light closer and be just as happy

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when u say vented hood do you mean when i run the heat from the lights through a fan(s)??

I'm going to attempt to make this as simple as possible because too few people understand the concept of light intensity. Unfortunately, I'm not going to make any diagrams. Perhaps someone will be willing to make some and put some up using this explanation, but I will not. I'm also going to make up my own unit of light called a "Light Unit" because i am not up for calculating "lux". It is the same exact thing as "lux" only I am using different measurements. Just like kilograms and pounds measure the same thing, i'm going to use "Light Units" instead of "lux"


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The Basic Math

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Suppose you have a 150w HPS giving off 15000 lumens. Any plants:

1ft away receive 16 Light Units
2ft away receive 4 Light Units
4ft away receive 1 Light Units

This shows that an object 2x the distance away receives 1/4th as much light. This is because light intensity decreases by distance squared. An object 4ft away from a light receives 1/16th as much light.

Now, Suppose we have a 600w HPS giving off 16000 lumens. Any plants:

1ft away receive 64 Light Units
2ft away receive 16 Light Units
4ft away receive 4 Light Units
8ft away receive 1 Light Units

This is exactly true... 4x as many lumens = 4x as much lux/"Light Units" for a given distance.

Now, using this shown concept this means any plants under a 150w HPS will receive JUST AS MUCH LIGHT as any plants 2x the distance under a 600w HPS.


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A Design Concept

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This means that plants 1ft under a 150w HPS get just as much light as plants 2ft under a 600w HPS.

Plants 2ft under a 150w HPS get just as much light as plants 4ft under a 600w HPS.

This means that if our ideal growth area under a 150w HPS is no farther than 2ft away. The ideal growth area under a 600w HPS is no farther than 4ft away.

No ifs, ands, or buts. THIS IS FACT. If you believe that buds grown 2ft from a 150w HPS are the smallest you accept, then buds grown any more than 4ft from a 600w HPS will be smaller.


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Some Practical Application

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Now, suppose that we don't want our plants any more than 1ft from our lights (heat stress).

This means that we have between 1ft and 2ft underneath a 150w HPS to grow ideal buds. However, we have between 1ft and 4ft underneath a 600w HPS to grow buds.

This is where everyone says having more "light intensity" matters. The 600w HPS gives off light that is capable of "stretching" a greater distance. We have 2x as much area to grow ideal buds (between 2ft and 4ft underneath). We ALSO have between 1ft and 2ft away to grow buds that are receiving MORE light than could be possible under a 150w HPS (due to heat stress).

If you wanted to grow the same buds grown 1-2ft from a 600w HPS. You would have to grow buds between 6-12 inches from a 150w HPS.


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Fluorescents DON'T Suck... Much

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Fluorescents follow the exact same rules. Buds grown 1ft from 10 1500 lumen CFLS are exactly the same as those grown 1ft from a 15,000 lumen HPS or 2ft from a 60,000 lumen HPS.

Here is the advantage CFLs have:

at 6 inches those CFLs have the same intensity as a 150w HPS at 6 inches or a 600w HPS at 1ft

at 3 inches those CFLs have the same intensity as a 150w HPS at 3 inches or a 600w HPS at 6 inches

at 1 inch those CFLs have the same intensity as a 150w HPS at 1 inch or a 600w HPS at 2 inches. (This is however impractical for HPS lights unless they are cool-tubed, it is not a problem at all for fluorescents though)


CFLs are capable of providing just as much light to plants(even more in some circumstances) as HED lights because they may be placed so close to the plants. This is why they are excellent for vegging. HOWEVER, their intensity is very low which is why they are horrible for flowering. Their light cannot "stretch" as far as HPS lights. Where as you may get excellent buds up to 4ft away from a HPS (which also means covering a large area), you would have to keep the buds no farther than 2ft from all of the CFLs for the same results.


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The Point

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ALL LIGHTS are capable of creating the same buds. However, the more lumens that a light gives off, the farther away buds of a decent size will grow. This is why CFLs aren't ideal for budding.

10 1500 lumen CFLs can produce the same buds between 6-12 inches away as a 60,000 lumen HPS can produce 1-2ft away.

1-2ft away from 10 1500 lumen CFLs is the same as 2-4ft away from a 60,000 lumen HPS.

In the end, even though CFLs don't have to worry about heat stress... they are still only really capable of producing 2ft deep of buds. That 600w HPS is capable of producing 3ft deep of buds (3 1/2 ft deep if cool-tubed).

So next time you say CFLs suck, keep in mind they are just as capable of producing excellent buds as HED lights, only in smaller quantities because of few bud sites can be placed next to the lights. For Vegging, they are practically ideal because of how close they can be placed to the tops of the plants to prevent stretching.

This means that your 600w will do fine, if you were to use a 400w you would want to keep it no more than 3ft from the lowest bud sites. That 600watt will let you put your light all the way up to the top of the closet and still decent buds will still grow all the way at the bottom.

Holy moley thats a hugh post and thanks for the info!! You know what i was thinking of doing??? I was thinking of getting some CFLs and run the vertical on my walls , lets say 3 on each side that way there you have the 600watt on top and it will be air cooled and ill have 6 cfl's on the sides , actually i could have 2 on each side and 2 on the back wall and one one on each door!! That way there the plants get all angles of lights!! Do you think this is a good idea??

True Stoner said:

What are nutes?? I see it all the time but have no idea what it means!! Im a noob!!

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i'm sorry i have to comment on this. you cannot be a "True Stoner" and not know this. start there, and work up to lights.

captain chronizzle said:

i'm sorry i have to comment on this. you cannot be a "True Stoner" and not know this. start there, and work up to lights.

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It says True Stoner not True Grower or True Herbitologist!!Like i say im just getting into the growing and it doesnt mean i should know all the grow slang as it isnt useful well im grinding up my bud and doing a bowl!! Its not like im going to spark a J and be like ..Wow i wonder how many nutes they used in this strain!! Dont give a fuck but now i do as i want to learn to grow!!Thanks for the encouragement...lol

Redeflect said:

So next time you say CFLs suck, keep in mind they are just as capable of producing excellent buds as HED lights, only in smaller quantities because of few bud sites can be placed next to the lights. For Vegging, they are practically ideal because of how close they can be placed to the tops of the plants to prevent stretching.

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I would not argue that what you said above was wrong but I would point out that the goal for every grower should be to produce the maximum number of grams possible per watt of electricity used. As you said; "keep in mind they are just as capable of producing excellent buds as HED lights, only in smaller quantities.." That is part of what makes them less of a value than some people see CFLs as being. Fewer grams produced per watts of electricity used.
　
The other is if someone uses enough CFLs to equal the output of HID lighting they will use more actual watts than HID lighting will. Again, less of an actual value than CFLs appear to be to some people.

As for tight nodal development. I use HID lighting and a MH for vegging and about the only times my plant’s nodal spacing doesn’t look almost as tight as a stacked deck of playing cards is if it is plant genetics.
　
I do not know if there is anyone who would still attempt to try to make an argument saying that CFLs do not work. They do work. They just do not work as well or as efficiently as HID lighting.

awesome, cant wait to see the build. i just got finished ordering equipment for my closet, hope this helps!!

the closet is 4'wide 2'deep 5'tall
this is what i got-
400w Sun System 10 switchable ballast for MH & HPS
Sun System Yield Master 2 hood w/ 6" ports & glass
both 400w MH & HPS bulbs
4'x25' roll of mylar.
10' reflective 6" duct
2x Panaflow PC fans *these bastards can move some air!!*
temp/humidity gauge
small desk fan
2x pulleys & some rope

grand total of $515.84 not too bad i dont think and its just about everything you need. i also have an old co2 tank that i filled and will burst every now and then to lower room temp etc..

i forgot to say, there is never too much. especially indoor.

I must disagree, CFLs are as capable of just as tight inter nodal length as any HID, you just need to keep them close. CFL's can manage 6 nodes in a 2 inch seedling just as well as an HID if they are placed within 1/2 an inch of the seedlings.Also, for a person intending to grow 4 plants under a 400watt light (1 square foot each)... it is pretty foolish for them to start using the 400watt light when they are only seedlings. 4 100watt equivalent CFLs is more more energy efficient. The point is that during veg, u can use very little light and have them close to plants and quite possibly save on electricity instead of overkilling with a HID and wasting light growing dirt. Also, for those that want small plants in the long run, fluorescents can be used all the way without being "inferior".

Simply put for seedlings and early veg, i say fluorescents win in the energy-saver battle. Unless you are growing at least 100 seedlings and using just a 100watt metal halide... but if you have that many plants there is no point in complaining about wasting 100 watts for a MH or 200 watts in fluorescents.

The main point of that all was to show that a 400watt HPS can perform just as well as a 600watt or 1000watt... only on a much smaller scale (not as much area or large trees) but the buds can be just as large because there is still a good 3 feet of decent light intensity to work with.