How to maintain Beneficial bacteria in DWC?
- Thread starter newguy123
- Start date
DrBlaze
Well-Known Member
No, the idea that fertilizer kills microbes is a myth. They will do just fine in DWC. The thing to get into ones head though is that if you are committing to running beneficials in DWC, then the "standard wisdom" no longer applies. So no sterilizers (h2o2, bleeches, etc) and no worrying about getting "gunk" in your lines etc. You will have a nice coat of bacteria everywhere, so no sense fighting it. There are some nice benefits besides just the good effect on plants, namely that you don't have to worry as much about water temperature, since pathogens can't move in because your system is already fully populated with beneficials.
Now you do have to make some adjustments:
If you were using any of those tiny water lines, you should change them out for larger lines as you will have a coating all through your system and the tiny lines can get blocked (I use nothing smaller than 1/2 inch, just standard garden hose).
Also your microbes have to have a home, so a system that top-feeds the nutrient through a ring (not a drip-ring) down through the net pots is best. The microbes will live in your media, and will stay moist and will constantly filter the nutrient as it flows down through. Using a tee and some 1/2 inch hose is the best ring you will find, I use a soldering iron to make holes. A standard drip ring will get clogged. If you are running Undercurrent, where the net pots get no water flow, you would need to add a small pump for this, but trust me, the extra work is worth it.
If you reinoculate the plant sites each week, you will ensure a healthy system. I like to turn off the pump and pour about 1/2 litre/quart of aerated microbe tea in each site and wait a few minutes before turning the pump back on, so that the roots and hydroten get coated really well.
Good luck, these tips come from several years of fine-tuning my system to run biologically instead of sterile. I'm able to add humics, fulvics, enzymes, molasses, seaweed and that really funky brown goopy fish fertilizer as amendments to my homemade chemical nutrient recipe. The plants always look like the pictures I see of organic grows, really green and with those giant leaves that have that "wet" look and feel. So I get the benefits of traditional organic growing, but with the supercharged growth rates of DWC.
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
You are lying to yourself if you think your DWC system is similar to organic gardening, it's not and it never will be no matter how much organic materials you dump into your water.
When you add bottled nutrients to any system you skip the whole entire cycle that is the backbone of organic gardening.
I would suggest reading some books on the soil web and how organic materials are broken down by microbes.
kaydeezee
Well-Known Member
Ive been reading lots of info on this subject and still find that a 50/50 split between growers that state you can & can't run beneficial's successfully in dwc?
I started my first dwc run 6wks back and was advised by a few well established growers to rin a sterile system with a h202 product, I had problems as soon as the roots hit the water?
Fish tank smell/tanned roots/slow growth/calcium Def ect:
After sterilising everything TWICE I still had problems with root's.
I decided to purchase a bottle of orca and see if that would help? I made up my nutrient mix that consisted of.......
30ml silica
30ml calmag
175ml veg nuts
Phed the mix then added the orca?
It's been a week now and I'm not sure what's supposed to be happening in my res? The water still looks clear with no sign the orca is working apart from my plants not looking dead?
Have I introduced the orca right?
Do I need to feed the bacteria?
I added 7.5ml to my 50L res that holds 2plants, I added 1tspn of molasses the first time round then 7days later dumped most of the res and re-filled with the same mix but the roots ubove the waterline look like shit? Whilst the roots below the water look much better?
I have 2 airpumps running 8x airstones giving a max output of 55lpm through 4x coke can stones and 4x golf ball stones
I'm running a chiller set to 66f that comes on about 6times a day for 5min
My ppm is 650, drops 30/50ppm every 24 hours and the water level drops half gal also, I top back of every day and set the ph to 5.6/5.7
Ph also rises from 5.6/5.7 to 6.0/6.2 every 24hours also
My setup consists of a 250w mh in a cool tube 12" ubove the plants & I also have a 50w draw cheap LED Ivinghoe a mixed spectrum, I was going to install the 600w hps in flower but maybe I need to get that up and going now since dwc does call for a lot of light to produce big plants?
Here are a few shots of the roots and plants at day 47 from seed
I can't find any picture's of a grower using great white or orca in there hydro setup any where? I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing in my res to let me know the orca us working?
Is there supposed to be foam everywhere?
Is there supposed to be a clear res?
I'm not sure? Before coming on here I do search high and low for info but since growing MJ plants is relitivly new in terms of documented literature from trust worthy growers I'm not sure?
Any advice of feeding my plants in the setup I'm using please advise, I'm not a new grower but it's my first dwc and want to obviously get it right lol
I started my first dwc run 6wks back and was advised by a few well established growers to rin a sterile system with a h202 product, I had problems as soon as the roots hit the water?
Fish tank smell/tanned roots/slow growth/calcium Def ect:
After sterilising everything TWICE I still had problems with root's.
I decided to purchase a bottle of orca and see if that would help? I made up my nutrient mix that consisted of.......
30ml silica
30ml calmag
175ml veg nuts
Phed the mix then added the orca?
It's been a week now and I'm not sure what's supposed to be happening in my res? The water still looks clear with no sign the orca is working apart from my plants not looking dead?
Have I introduced the orca right?
Do I need to feed the bacteria?
I added 7.5ml to my 50L res that holds 2plants, I added 1tspn of molasses the first time round then 7days later dumped most of the res and re-filled with the same mix but the roots ubove the waterline look like shit? Whilst the roots below the water look much better?
I have 2 airpumps running 8x airstones giving a max output of 55lpm through 4x coke can stones and 4x golf ball stones
I'm running a chiller set to 66f that comes on about 6times a day for 5min
My ppm is 650, drops 30/50ppm every 24 hours and the water level drops half gal also, I top back of every day and set the ph to 5.6/5.7
Ph also rises from 5.6/5.7 to 6.0/6.2 every 24hours also
My setup consists of a 250w mh in a cool tube 12" ubove the plants & I also have a 50w draw cheap LED Ivinghoe a mixed spectrum, I was going to install the 600w hps in flower but maybe I need to get that up and going now since dwc does call for a lot of light to produce big plants?
Here are a few shots of the roots and plants at day 47 from seed
I can't find any picture's of a grower using great white or orca in there hydro setup any where? I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing in my res to let me know the orca us working?
Is there supposed to be foam everywhere?
Is there supposed to be a clear res?
I'm not sure? Before coming on here I do search high and low for info but since growing MJ plants is relitivly new in terms of documented literature from trust worthy growers I'm not sure?
Any advice of feeding my plants in the setup I'm using please advise, I'm not a new grower but it's my first dwc and want to obviously get it right lol
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
What do bennies need to live and grow?
Something to attach to. So the Media you use is a key here. Soilless media's that are considered hydro runs. Do hold myco's, and allow them to live and grow.
Something to eat. You supplying the needed carbs to allow those bennies to live and grow?
You dip your roots into Great White right? What does that tell you? These are "zyme" type bennies that attach to, and live on the plants roots... They feed off the shed cellulose of the outer root layer..This is shed like a snakes skin but, for the bennies eating it, You don't see much but that brown residue on the bottom of your res..
It is true that synthetic nutrients don't "kill" myco's...They do tend to starve them into being dormant, or even some die off...
Myco's live off carbs.... So, have a surface that they can live on, and supply carbs. They will live BUT, you can't do actual proper ORGANIC's in hydro - Other then Aquaponics...maybe.
Bottled, liquid organics. Is many times simply organically chelated, plant ready nutrition...This again, cuts the myco's out of the formula...They need to be feed again...
Something to attach to. So the Media you use is a key here. Soilless media's that are considered hydro runs. Do hold myco's, and allow them to live and grow.
Something to eat. You supplying the needed carbs to allow those bennies to live and grow?
You dip your roots into Great White right? What does that tell you? These are "zyme" type bennies that attach to, and live on the plants roots... They feed off the shed cellulose of the outer root layer..This is shed like a snakes skin but, for the bennies eating it, You don't see much but that brown residue on the bottom of your res..
It is true that synthetic nutrients don't "kill" myco's...They do tend to starve them into being dormant, or even some die off...
Myco's live off carbs.... So, have a surface that they can live on, and supply carbs. They will live BUT, you can't do actual proper ORGANIC's in hydro - Other then Aquaponics...maybe.
Bottled, liquid organics. Is many times simply organically chelated, plant ready nutrition...This again, cuts the myco's out of the formula...They need to be feed again...
Potmetal
Well-Known Member
I may or may not be buzzed, but I am certainly getting confused. I add myco to the pots when I transplant them in, but for hydro I was under the impression that a product such as Hydroguard would be a better choice than Orca, GW, etc. Am I missing something? Please advise .
Dynamo626
Well-Known Member
Not missing anything. Microbes like orca break down organics so the plant can use them. In hydro the nutrients are already available to the plants so the bennies only bennifit is outpopulating any bad bacteria. If your going to pay money for a bacteria in hydro may as well be one thats made specificaly prevent bad bactillis.
kingtitan
Well-Known Member
I use GW in my RDWC along with initial 4 gallon dose EWC tea during first week and then 80% water change and another 4 gallon dose mid flower. 1 water change per cycle.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
Run sterile RDwc. That's what it's used for. If you want to use microbes in hydro, run coco.
How would you use microbes in coco?
Magic M
Well-Known Member
This statement , in my experience , is a bad idea. I run 2 x 6000w flower rooms each with a diy undercurrent system cooled with a 1.5 hp chiller. I ran these sterile for the first 6 runs and still had root issues. I then started making a hiesenburg tea & have not had an issue since. Running sterile will adventually lead to problems. Imo.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
And I've experienced the exact opposite using the same rdwc DIY system with a 1/10HP chiller.
I used a tea made from ewc, bat guano,bone meal, and kelp meal to feed my girls in coco coir for bennies and I haven't got root rot even tho it gets to 79f-88f during the day. I feed my girls with general hydroponics
Ganja Botanist
Active Member
Microbes don't work in DWC? What is pythium. Don't talk about things you don't understand. Organics come from your fulvics humics seaweed etc, not "organic" but it is using organics that will give you similar results. Hydroguard is a bacteria product. The one guy to listen to in this Thread is doctor blaze. Spot on information for anyone who stumbles on this later
Someone is going to read this later.
He said he gets the "benefits of an organic grow, being able to use humic, fulvic, etc etc" but the growth rate of dwc.
I do the same thing and it works for me as well.
If you do a res change its best to inoculate your roots in between changes. Water mycorrhizae into your root zone let it sit for about 5 minutes or so then finish your res change.
I've never battled with root rot running hydroguard and a chiller or running sterile with UC with or without a chiller but I switched to mycorrhizae and beneficial bacteria a couple runs ago and I like it because it allows me to use humic and kelp in moderate amounts. I use Fulvic as well, but fulvic is small enough to enter right into the root zone and its a chelate
We all are masters or working towards being masters at our growing style and other growing style, what didn't work for you may work for someone. We are quick to disagree with eachother, the purpose of this forum is to learn from each other.
