Well, it's been days since I first posted my thread, and I have been patiently waiting for my babies to improve, but doesn't seem to be happening yet. Been watering them VERY lightly with 1/4 strength organic Botanicare, but plants are all still drooping, stunted, lifeless, and some of the smaller ones are exhibiting some morphin and mutating of tops...any suggestions?
Help!!!babies still not responding!!!what next???
- Thread starter mikahdale
- Start date
i just picked thru my garden this morning and threw away a dozen or so plants that looked like those. If you got those as a clone, you got hosed. they just look like plain bad genetics.
No, 'bro...you're right, I transplanted them in a dry mix, and them watered them with 1/4 strength nute solution. I know I prolly shoulda prepped my medium better, was in a hurry and got lazy... I use ProMix HP, and to that I add 2 parts worm castings, 2 parts additional perlite, and about 1 tbsp. of dolomite lime per gallon of mix. Think that could have something to do with it?
*BUDS
Well-Known Member
The leaf stripes are due to trace element lockout and is a serious issue. Your ph is out and you must adjust it back to 6.5-7 ASAP. Get some ph up and down plus a digital meter.$50 all up. Once K is locked out (will happen soon) the plant is finished as it picks up diseases.
Well, you fucked up, but it's an easy fix.
Get a bucket or a tub, something that will hold water and the containers will fit into easily.
Put the container in the tub and water from the top until the water comes up almost to the top of the mix in the container. Let it sit in this water for 1/2-1 hour. Remove and let drain and repeat till they are all done.
Do not water or add nutes or anything till they dry out. Memorize the weight of the pots before you do the above. They are pretty dry now and that's the weight you want in your muscle memory. You want to refrain from watering till they reach this weight/state of dryness.
Dry peat will actually repel water and that's what's happening here. This is why you need to wet the mix before you use it. It's also a good idea to add your dolomite lime before you wet it. I use 2tbl/gal of the lime BTW.
You also might want to take some more mix, put it in a bucket and get it wet. Once you get the planted containers saturated, work the mix down with your fingertips so it is firmly packed. This is also important to insure good contact with the roots and eliminate air pockets. I'll bet the levels in the containers goes way down when you firm it down. Add more till you're at the level you want.
No water till the pots dry out. Go by the weight in your muscle memory. No nutes either, not for a bit. They need a chance to recover.
Don't do *little sips* of anything. Totally saturate the medium whether you are watering or adding nutes.
Do all this, and I bet you see improvement within days, if not sooner.
Wet
Get a bucket or a tub, something that will hold water and the containers will fit into easily.
Put the container in the tub and water from the top until the water comes up almost to the top of the mix in the container. Let it sit in this water for 1/2-1 hour. Remove and let drain and repeat till they are all done.
Do not water or add nutes or anything till they dry out. Memorize the weight of the pots before you do the above. They are pretty dry now and that's the weight you want in your muscle memory. You want to refrain from watering till they reach this weight/state of dryness.
Dry peat will actually repel water and that's what's happening here. This is why you need to wet the mix before you use it. It's also a good idea to add your dolomite lime before you wet it. I use 2tbl/gal of the lime BTW.
You also might want to take some more mix, put it in a bucket and get it wet. Once you get the planted containers saturated, work the mix down with your fingertips so it is firmly packed. This is also important to insure good contact with the roots and eliminate air pockets. I'll bet the levels in the containers goes way down when you firm it down. Add more till you're at the level you want.
No water till the pots dry out. Go by the weight in your muscle memory. No nutes either, not for a bit. They need a chance to recover.
Don't do *little sips* of anything. Totally saturate the medium whether you are watering or adding nutes.
Do all this, and I bet you see improvement within days, if not sooner.
Wet
knourgro
Active Member
^^ya what he said and if your stems are turning purple thats a sign of another deficiency. it looks like they actually might need a little more food than ur giving, but the burn on some of the lower leaves make me second guess that. is the burn fresh? or was that from a while back and possibly another past problem?
ill check into what the purple stems mean again
ill check into what the purple stems mean again
knourgro
Active Member
here is what i found about your stems turning purple. could be a P deficiancy, a serious N deficiancy, or it could just be your plant, some strain develop peurple stems. but here is the info
Yellowing of Younger leaves............. Fe, Mn.
Yellowing of Middle leaves................ Mo.
Yellowing of Older leaves................. N, K, Mg, Zn.
Yellowing Between veins................. Mg, Mn.
Old leaves drop................................ N.
Leaf Curl Over.................................. Mg.
Leaf Curl Under................................ K, Cu, Over Fert.
Leaf tips burn, Younger leaves........ B.
Leaf tips burn, Older leaves............. N, Zn.
Young leaves wrinkle and curl.......... K, Zn, B, Mo.
Dead areas in the leaves................. K, Mg, Fe, Zn, Mn.
Leaf growth stunted........................ N, P.
Dark green/purplish leaves and stems......... P.
Pale green leaf color..................................... N, Mo.
Leaf Spotting.......................................... ...... Zn.
Spindly........................................... ............... N.
Soft stems............................................. ....... N, K.
Hard/brittle stems........................................ P, K.
Growing tips die........................................... K.
Stunted root growth.................................... P.
Wilting........................................... ............... Cu.
Use this chart as a reference ONLY. This is not a guaranteed diagnosis of your plant and you should only use this as a guideline to help you figure out what your nutrient solution is lacking...
ELEMENT and Description of Deficiency and Toxicity
N (Nitrogen) .................. Deficiency: Plants will exhibit lack of vigor as older leaves become yellow (chlorotic) from lack of chlorophyll. Chlorosis will eventually spread throughout the plant. Stems, petioles and lower leaf surfaces may turn purple.
Toxicity: Leaves are often dark green and in the early stages abundant with foliage. If excess is severe, leaves will dry and begin to fall off. Root system will remain under developed or deteriorate after time. Fruit and flower set will be inhibited or deformed.
P (Phosphorus) ...........Deficiency: Plants are stunted and older leaves often dark dull green in color. Stems, petioles may turn purple. Plant maturity is often delayed.
Toxicity: This condition is rare and usually buffered by pH limitations. Excess phosphorus can interfere with the availability of copper and zinc.
K (Potassium) .......... Deficiency: Older leaves are initially chlorotic but soon develop dark necrotic lesions (dead tissue). First apparent on the tips and margins of the leaves. Stem and branches may become weak and easily broken.
Toxicity: Usually not absorbed excessively by plants. Excess potassium can aggravate the uptake of magnesium, manganese, zinc and iron.
S (Sulfur) .......... Deficiency: The initial symptoms are the yellowing of the entire leaf including veins usually starting with the younger leaves. Leaf tips may yellow and curl downward.
Toxicity: Leaf size will be reduced and overall growth will be stunted. Leaves yellowing or scorched at edges.
Mg (Magnesium) .......... Deficiency: The older leaves will be the first to develop interveinal chlorosis. Starting at leaf margin or tip and progressing inward between the veins.
Toxicity: Magnesium toxicity are rare and not generally exhibited visibly.
Ca (Calcium) .......... Deficiency: Young leaves are affected first and become small and distorted or chlorotic with irregular margins, spotting or necrotic areas. Bud development is inhibited and roots may be underdeveloped or die back. Fruit may be stunted or deformed.
Toxicity: Difficult to distinguish visually. May precipitate with sulfur in solution and cause clouding or residue in tank.
Fe (Iron) ........... Deficiency: Pronounced interveinal chlorosis similar to that cased by magnesium deficiency but on the younger leaves.
Toxicity: Excess accumulation is rare but could cause bronzing or tiny brown spots on leaf surface.
Mn (Manganese) .......... Deficiency: Interveinal chlorosis on younger or older leaves followed by necrotic lesions or leaf shedding. Restricted growth and failure to mature normally can also result.
Toxicity: Chlorosis, or blotchy leaf tissue due to insufficient chlorophyll synthesis. Growth rate will slow and vigor will decline.
Cl (Chlorine) .......... Deficiency: Wilted chlorotic leaves become bronze in color. Roots become stunted and thickened near tips.
Toxicity: Burning of leaf tip or margins. Bronzing, yellowing and leaf splitting. Reduced leaf size and lower growth rate.
B (Boron) .......... Deficiency: Stem and root apical meristems often die. Root tips often become swollen and discolored. Internal tissues may rot and become host to fungal disease. Leaves show various symptoms which include drying, thickening, distorting, wilting, and chlorotic or necrotic spotting.
Toxicity: Yellowing of leaf tip followed by necrosis of the leaves beginning at tips or margins and progressing inward. Some plants are especially sensitive to boron accumulation.
Zn (Zinc) .......... Deficiency: Chlorosis may accompany reduction of leaf size and a shortening between internodes. Leaf margins are often distorted or wrinkled.
Toxicity: Zinc in excess is extremely toxic and will cause rapid death. Excess zinc interferes with iron causing chlorosis from iron deficiency.
Cu (Copper) .......... Deficiency: Young leaves often become dark green and twisted. They may die back or just exhibit necrotic spots. Growth and yield will be deficient as well.
Toxicity: Reduced growth followed by symptoms of iron chlorosis, stunting, reduced branching, abnormal darkening and thickening of roots. This element is essential but extremely toxic in excess.
Mo (Molybdenum) .......... Deficiency: Often interveinal chlorosis which occurs first on older leaves, then progressing to the entire plant. Developing severely twisted younger leaves which eventually die.
Toxicity: Excess may cause discoloration of leaves depending on plant species. This condition is rare but could occur from accumulation by continuous application. Used by the plant in very small quantities.
Yellowing of Younger leaves............. Fe, Mn.
Yellowing of Middle leaves................ Mo.
Yellowing of Older leaves................. N, K, Mg, Zn.
Yellowing Between veins................. Mg, Mn.
Old leaves drop................................ N.
Leaf Curl Over.................................. Mg.
Leaf Curl Under................................ K, Cu, Over Fert.
Leaf tips burn, Younger leaves........ B.
Leaf tips burn, Older leaves............. N, Zn.
Young leaves wrinkle and curl.......... K, Zn, B, Mo.
Dead areas in the leaves................. K, Mg, Fe, Zn, Mn.
Leaf growth stunted........................ N, P.
Dark green/purplish leaves and stems......... P.
Pale green leaf color..................................... N, Mo.
Leaf Spotting.......................................... ...... Zn.
Spindly........................................... ............... N.
Soft stems............................................. ....... N, K.
Hard/brittle stems........................................ P, K.
Growing tips die........................................... K.
Stunted root growth.................................... P.
Wilting........................................... ............... Cu.
Use this chart as a reference ONLY. This is not a guaranteed diagnosis of your plant and you should only use this as a guideline to help you figure out what your nutrient solution is lacking...
ELEMENT and Description of Deficiency and Toxicity
N (Nitrogen) .................. Deficiency: Plants will exhibit lack of vigor as older leaves become yellow (chlorotic) from lack of chlorophyll. Chlorosis will eventually spread throughout the plant. Stems, petioles and lower leaf surfaces may turn purple.
Toxicity: Leaves are often dark green and in the early stages abundant with foliage. If excess is severe, leaves will dry and begin to fall off. Root system will remain under developed or deteriorate after time. Fruit and flower set will be inhibited or deformed.
P (Phosphorus) ...........Deficiency: Plants are stunted and older leaves often dark dull green in color. Stems, petioles may turn purple. Plant maturity is often delayed.
Toxicity: This condition is rare and usually buffered by pH limitations. Excess phosphorus can interfere with the availability of copper and zinc.
K (Potassium) .......... Deficiency: Older leaves are initially chlorotic but soon develop dark necrotic lesions (dead tissue). First apparent on the tips and margins of the leaves. Stem and branches may become weak and easily broken.
Toxicity: Usually not absorbed excessively by plants. Excess potassium can aggravate the uptake of magnesium, manganese, zinc and iron.
S (Sulfur) .......... Deficiency: The initial symptoms are the yellowing of the entire leaf including veins usually starting with the younger leaves. Leaf tips may yellow and curl downward.
Toxicity: Leaf size will be reduced and overall growth will be stunted. Leaves yellowing or scorched at edges.
Mg (Magnesium) .......... Deficiency: The older leaves will be the first to develop interveinal chlorosis. Starting at leaf margin or tip and progressing inward between the veins.
Toxicity: Magnesium toxicity are rare and not generally exhibited visibly.
Ca (Calcium) .......... Deficiency: Young leaves are affected first and become small and distorted or chlorotic with irregular margins, spotting or necrotic areas. Bud development is inhibited and roots may be underdeveloped or die back. Fruit may be stunted or deformed.
Toxicity: Difficult to distinguish visually. May precipitate with sulfur in solution and cause clouding or residue in tank.
Fe (Iron) ........... Deficiency: Pronounced interveinal chlorosis similar to that cased by magnesium deficiency but on the younger leaves.
Toxicity: Excess accumulation is rare but could cause bronzing or tiny brown spots on leaf surface.
Mn (Manganese) .......... Deficiency: Interveinal chlorosis on younger or older leaves followed by necrotic lesions or leaf shedding. Restricted growth and failure to mature normally can also result.
Toxicity: Chlorosis, or blotchy leaf tissue due to insufficient chlorophyll synthesis. Growth rate will slow and vigor will decline.
Cl (Chlorine) .......... Deficiency: Wilted chlorotic leaves become bronze in color. Roots become stunted and thickened near tips.
Toxicity: Burning of leaf tip or margins. Bronzing, yellowing and leaf splitting. Reduced leaf size and lower growth rate.
B (Boron) .......... Deficiency: Stem and root apical meristems often die. Root tips often become swollen and discolored. Internal tissues may rot and become host to fungal disease. Leaves show various symptoms which include drying, thickening, distorting, wilting, and chlorotic or necrotic spotting.
Toxicity: Yellowing of leaf tip followed by necrosis of the leaves beginning at tips or margins and progressing inward. Some plants are especially sensitive to boron accumulation.
Zn (Zinc) .......... Deficiency: Chlorosis may accompany reduction of leaf size and a shortening between internodes. Leaf margins are often distorted or wrinkled.
Toxicity: Zinc in excess is extremely toxic and will cause rapid death. Excess zinc interferes with iron causing chlorosis from iron deficiency.
Cu (Copper) .......... Deficiency: Young leaves often become dark green and twisted. They may die back or just exhibit necrotic spots. Growth and yield will be deficient as well.
Toxicity: Reduced growth followed by symptoms of iron chlorosis, stunting, reduced branching, abnormal darkening and thickening of roots. This element is essential but extremely toxic in excess.
Mo (Molybdenum) .......... Deficiency: Often interveinal chlorosis which occurs first on older leaves, then progressing to the entire plant. Developing severely twisted younger leaves which eventually die.
Toxicity: Excess may cause discoloration of leaves depending on plant species. This condition is rare but could occur from accumulation by continuous application. Used by the plant in very small quantities.
Here's what sux...I've already completely flushed these plants once, about a week ago, and they haven't gotten any better. Think I really need to flush them again? Everything I've put into them has been Ph'd with a digital meter to 6.3. But how do you do a "soil" Ph test on a medium that is not "soil"? And I've heard that run-off tests can be totally misleading. How can I get this crap adjusted?
matthebrute
Well-Known Member
whats your light schedule?
MrMeanGreen
Active Member
firstly, my apoligies, I am a bit monged of this tangerine dream so I might say something a bit more appropriate tomorrow.
As to why this is happening, I really don't know. They actually, apart from 1 or 2, look pretty healthy in colour but are either a bit droopy or lookin mongy.
I never kill anything, I always run em through and check the end result making sure I have a clone on slow cook should I want to replicate that strain. A mongy plant is not neccessarily a bad or wrong plant, it simply means a glitch in genetics, temporary or perminent. You may end up with a bag of shite, you may end up with a jar of the sweetest, strongest bud every grown. You will never know unless you finish the job you started. If it's a peach.... rub ya bollox coz you got a clone on slow cook and there is a fair chance you can replicate that dreamy smoke. If it's a dud..... file it under B.
1 quick question though....... what is 'watering them very lighty? Are you watering' little' and often? how often ?. Aactually that's 3 questions..
As to why this is happening, I really don't know. They actually, apart from 1 or 2, look pretty healthy in colour but are either a bit droopy or lookin mongy.
I never kill anything, I always run em through and check the end result making sure I have a clone on slow cook should I want to replicate that strain. A mongy plant is not neccessarily a bad or wrong plant, it simply means a glitch in genetics, temporary or perminent. You may end up with a bag of shite, you may end up with a jar of the sweetest, strongest bud every grown. You will never know unless you finish the job you started. If it's a peach.... rub ya bollox coz you got a clone on slow cook and there is a fair chance you can replicate that dreamy smoke. If it's a dud..... file it under B.
1 quick question though....... what is 'watering them very lighty? Are you watering' little' and often? how often ?. Aactually that's 3 questions..
knourgro
Active Member
ya they dont have purple stems. in my opinion id just give them more nitrogen and phosphous. id say there gettin big and after that flush they need more nutes in the soil so there just starting to starve. the fading green leaves could be the begging symptoms of N deficiency and i believe this can help cause the purple stems too. they probably are starting a mild K deficiency too since the other 2 main nutes appear to be low.
so id up the nutes but thats just my opinion
so id up the nutes but thats just my opinion
OK. guys, now I'm REALLY confused! Against my better judgement, I picked one of my babies, and saturated her with water Ph'd at 6.1. Watered her until I got runoff from the drain holes, and tested the runoff. It came out a 6.35Ph and 450PPM. Seems absolutely FINE to me...so what gives? Why would I have any kind of lockout with these readings? And 450PPM tells me definately not over nuted...gotta lead me back to a deficiency of some sort, no? And, if it IS some sort of deficiency as opposed to a "lock-out", is flushing these babies again really going to help me cure my problems? But hey, I'm not ruling anything out, and if I gotta do it again, well, I'll do her again. Just VERY arduous and time consuming...ya know how long it takes 4 gallons of water to slow seep through a 1 gal. pot? And then multiply that amount of time by 29 plants...and...well, could be another VERY late night!
matthebrute
Well-Known Member
hoorah up the nutes!!!!!!
wost case scenario....you become a pro flusher right
gl man hope all works out for you
oh and i asked lighting because u said they were growing fuked up and that can be from being in flower stage with light leaks
wost case scenario....you become a pro flusher right
gl man hope all works out for you
oh and i asked lighting because u said they were growing fuked up and that can be from being in flower stage with light leaks
After the first flush, I didn't water at all for 2 days, just light foliar feeding during dark cycle. Then I watered them lightly every other day, lightly being about1 pint of water per plant, with a 1/4 strength solution of nutes. Before going through with flushing again, think I should go ahad and up the nutes a bit, say to 800-1000PPM, and give that a try? Who knows...maybe my "deficiencies" are not due to a "lock-out", but simply that I haven't given them enough food?
matthebrute
Well-Known Member
OK dont up the nutes!!!!!!! 
nah jk i wouldnt go crazy with the nutes but i would give em a small dose of 1/4 strength and see where that gets you, if you see improvemnts then go 1/3 strength.....im sure you know the deal
nah jk i wouldnt go crazy with the nutes but i would give em a small dose of 1/4 strength and see where that gets you, if you see improvemnts then go 1/3 strength.....im sure you know the deal