Help a new living organics grower.

Sidvicious1

Sidvicious1

Active Member
Hey everyone, I mixrd my first living organic soil mix about 2 weeks ago and my ph is around 7.7 and I assume it should be higher with only 2 weeks into cooking.

My mix consist of 1.5 cf of organic soil mix, 1cf of worm castings, cow, chicken, rabbit manure. 1cf of perlite.

Amendments are
2 cups green sand
1cup fish bone meal
1cup blood meal
1cup kelp meal
1 cup alfalfa meal and 1/2cup pellet
1cup organic plant tone ferts 3-4-4
1cuporganic rice
1cup ground oyster shells
6 or so egg shells
1cup fast acting gypsum
2cups hydrated lime

I realize now I should not have used hydrated lime. That being said, do u think it pissed off my micro life so much that I should start a new mix or should i I be good? I assume I could have a calcium overload going on now so any info on how to fix that would help too. Actually any info on the mix I just gave would be greatly appreciated.
 
Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Even if you did piss off the microherd with that small amount of lime (which is doubtful) the ph should normalize in time. You need about 30 days minimum to cook all this in. Some of the amendments you list like greensand and eggshells take frikkin forever to break down; be patient. Your soil probe should read about 7 when the mix is ready to use and it should take another few weeks. I would add in some coco and or more perlite if it is still a bit too alkaline after sitting for 30+ daze but I never even bother to check ph anymore.
 
Sidvicious1

Sidvicious1

Active Member
Ok. Cool. Thanks man, u really helped me out.. what do u think about adding peat moss if it's still to alkaline? I have peat, I would have to go buy coco..
 
Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Peat would help also if that's what u got. I just figure everybody got coco just sitting around lol; it doesn't matter you just want to add in some well draining organic material that isn't "hot" and that microbes can populate. PH swings are likely from all that good manure but it will normalize in time no matter what you do.
 
Sidvicious1

Sidvicious1

Active Member
That's great to hear.. thanks.. also do u know how often I should top dress ( like with ewc and kelp meal, )and what amendments do u use or should i use? Also do u agree with useing spikes when transplanting to flowering pot?
 
Sidvicious1

Sidvicious1

Active Member
And also, a feed store near by sells a small bag of micro nutes, do u think this would be a good addition to have in there?
 
Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
I don't need to top dress and you probably shouldn't need to either with all the stuff you are adding in. You can always top dress or amend EWC without "cook" time; adding worm castings is never a bad idea and the fresher the better. I try to get as much EWC as I can into my mix at each recycling. Personally I think you are better off simply potting up gradually as needed until you get to the pot size you want to flower out your plants in. I do recommend brewing up an AACT every few weeks to keep your mix active.
When I build final size pots for flowering I do it the Rev's way: TLO style with a "high N" bottom layer of soil mixed with a handful each of cow & chicken manure. On top of that I sprinkle a bit of crushed oyster shell and then some more mix and granular mycorrhizae. The root ball goes directly on top of that in contact with the myco and then backfilled with mix. Then I push in 2 Jobes organic spikes 180deg from each other. Spikes feed the plants through bloom phase right up to harvest time with water only and help push big frosty buds. Alotta growers around here don't agree with layering and spikes but I won't do it any other way. No matter if you add your fertilizer globally or in layers matters not IMO..the idea is to put what is needed in the containers before it is actually needed; the plants will find what they want as long as it is there....
I don't think you'll need those macros; what you've already added to your mix should be good enough but I would give an AACT say every 3 weeks or so from mid veg to mid bloom phase. Water only after week 6...the best thing you can do if you haven't already is to source some fresh EWC and/or start a worm bin. It's a small investment that pays out big time later on.
 
DonTesla

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Sidvicious1 said:
Hey everyone, I mixrd my first living organic soil mix about 2 weeks ago and my ph is around 7.7 and I assume it should be higher with only 2 weeks into cooking.

My mix consist of 1.5 cf of organic soil mix, 1cf of worm castings, cow, chicken, rabbit manure. 1cf of perlite.

Amendments are
2 cups green sand
1cup fish bone meal
1cup blood meal
1cup kelp meal
1 cup alfalfa meal and 1/2cup pellet
1cup organic plant tone ferts 3-4-4
1cuporganic rice
1cup ground oyster shells
6 or so egg shells
1cup fast acting gypsum
2cups hydrated lime

I realize now I should not have used hydrated lime. That being said, do u think it pissed off my micro life so much that I should start a new mix or should i I be good? I assume I could have a calcium overload going on now so any info on how to fix that would help too. Actually any info on the mix I just gave would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Id make some more base and compare it to this, making it a bit cleaner, and

per cubic foot add the following:

between .5 and 2 cups kelp (I've tested even further)
a cup neem (missing)
1 cup shell crab /shrimp meal or insect frass (missing)
1/2 cup fish bone meal

1 cup greensand
1 cup gypsum
2 cups glacial rock dust or basalt (missing)
1 cup eggs shells


SKIPPING:
no tomato tone (less pathogens, commercial poultry meal etc )
no rice (make green mold)
no blood meal
no lime

Just a side note:
DT's BASE preferences:

35%:
humus rich dirt
coir
leaf compost (forest floor, diy etc)
15% castings

up to 50% aeration, when done right, and refined properly, including high humus options, springy decompacting agents, and of course, 10% bio char whenever or once possible
(in other words, do 45% unless feeding the compost to the worms for further refinement)

optional addition: 15% animal manure, to above base, preferably nature based, vs factory farm based! that free range organic is where its at, and no antibiotics etc
 
Last edited:
Sidvicious1

Sidvicious1

Active Member
Can u buy neem seed meal or just neem locally? I havnt been able to find any, tho I've only tried a few places.. also insect frass? I'm sure I'd have to order glacial rock dust... and yes, my manure is as nature based as it gets. All free range. I have a farm so I have all the cow, chicken and rabbit manure I need. And no antibiotics.. one more question.. have u talked to anyone who uses the water out of there fish tanks to water plants? I assume it has a lot of great benefits and full of fish poo.. I just wanted to know more about it and to make sure I didt over do it if I did use the fish shit.. thanks for the help !
 
Sidvicious1

Sidvicious1

Active Member
Richard Drysift said:
I don't need to top dress and you probably shouldn't need to either with all the stuff you are adding in. You can always top dress or amend EWC without "cook" time; adding worm castings is never a bad idea and the fresher the better. I try to get as much EWC as I can into my mix at each recycling. Personally I think you are better off simply potting up gradually as needed until you get to the pot size you want to flower out your plants in. I do recommend brewing up an AACT every few weeks to keep your mix active.
When I build final size pots for flowering I do it the Rev's way: TLO style with a "high N" bottom layer of soil mixed with a handful each of cow & chicken manure. On top of that I sprinkle a bit of crushed oyster shell and then some more mix and granular mycorrhizae. The root ball goes directly on top of that in contact with the myco and then backfilled with mix. Then I push in 2 Jobes organic spikes 180deg from each other. Spikes feed the plants through bloom phase right up to harvest time with water only and help push big frosty buds. Alotta growers around here don't agree with layering and spikes but I won't do it any other way. No matter if you add your fertilizer globally or in layers matters not IMO..the idea is to put what is needed in the containers before it is actually needed; the plants will find what they want as long as it is there....
I don't think you'll need those macros; what you've already added to your mix should be good enough but I would give an AACT say every 3 weeks or so from mid veg to mid bloom phase. Water only after week 6...the best thing you can do if you haven't already is to source some fresh EWC and/or start a worm bin. It's a small investment that pays out big time later on.
Click to expand...
Hell yeah man, thanks for all the great info. I looked at some of ur pics and they look outstanding! If I can get close to that quality I will be more than happy.. even if the yields are low at first. Quality is what im I'm shooting for. like I said this is my first time with living organics and I just want to make sure I'm doing things right. I've been reading some of ur post and you seem to have a pretty good grasp on everything when it comes to it. One more question.. with ur mix do u have to add any nutes throughout the grow for phosphorus or potassium? Like when trasnplanting or starting flowering? Or does the mix itself feed the plant with the occasional AACT every few weeks?
 
Sidvicious1

Sidvicious1

Active Member
I have a few matoes growing in basically the same mix that i made over a month ago,(I just used steamed bone meal and then read that it really pisses off the herd so i started a new mix for the ladies and thats whats cooking now.)i was reading somthing by the rev that said u can tell when there P uptake problem by looking at the upper petioles and if they are purple then u might have a issue. That being said, would it be the same for tomatoes because they are showing the same?
 
kratos015

kratos015

Well-Known Member
Sidvicious1 said:
Can u buy neem seed meal or just neem locally? I havnt been able to find any, tho I've only tried a few places.. also insect frass? I'm sure I'd have to order glacial rock dust... and yes, my manure is as nature based as it gets. All free range. I have a farm so I have all the cow, chicken and rabbit manure I need. And no antibiotics.. one more question.. have u talked to anyone who uses the water out of there fish tanks to water plants? I assume it has a lot of great benefits and full of fish poo.. I just wanted to know more about it and to make sure I didt over do it if I did use the fish shit.. thanks for the help !
Click to expand...
You can find pretty much everything you need on Amazon, a box of neem meal goes for around $15-16 I believe and qualifies for Prime shipping if you have Amazon Prime. Glacial Rock Dust is good stuff, but Basalt is pretty much the best stuff that you can use so make sure you incorporate some of that in your mix as well if you're able to.

And as for your liming agent, look into Oyster Shell Flour, it's much better than lime for a variety of reasons. Worms love the stuff too.
 
Sidvicious1

Sidvicious1

Active Member
Richard Drysift said:
I don't need to top dress and you probably shouldn't need to either with all the stuff you are adding in. You can always top dress or amend EWC without "cook" time; adding worm castings is never a bad idea and the fresher the better. I try to get as much EWC as I can into my mix at each recycling. Personally I think you are better off simply potting up gradually as needed until you get to the pot size you want to flower out your plants in. I do recommend brewing up an AACT every few weeks to keep your mix active.
When I build final size pots for flowering I do it the Rev's way: TLO style with a "high N" bottom layer of soil mixed with a handful each of cow & chicken manure. On top of that I sprinkle a bit of crushed oyster shell and then some more mix and granular mycorrhizae. The root ball goes directly on top of that in contact with the myco and then backfilled with mix. Then I push in 2 Jobes organic spikes 180deg from each other. Spikes feed the plants through bloom phase right up to harvest time with water only and help push big frosty buds. Alotta growers around here don't agree with layering and spikes but I won't do it any other way. No matter if you add your fertilizer globally or in layers matters not IMO..the idea is to put what is needed in the containers before it is actually needed; the plants will find what they want as long as it is there....
I don't think you'll need those macros; what you've already added to your mix should be good enough but I would give an AACT say every 3 weeks or so from mid veg to mid bloom phase. Water only after week 6...the best thing you can do if you haven't already is to source some fresh EWC and/or start a worm bin. It's a small investment that pays out big time later on.
Click to expand...
Hell yeah man, a worm bin is def on my list to get soon.. a much neededtool for anyone going this route. Once again thanks for the great info, you've saved me alot of time and have given me more side notes to keep in mind for building a greater understanding in the way living organics work. Tip of the hat to u my good sir!
 
Sidvicious1

Sidvicious1

Active Member
Richard Drysift said:
I don't need to top dress and you probably shouldn't need to either with all the stuff you are adding in. You can always top dress or amend EWC without "cook" time; adding worm castings is never a bad idea and the fresher the better. I try to get as much EWC as I can into my mix at each recycling. Personally I think you are better off simply potting up gradually as needed until you get to the pot size you want to flower out your plants in. I do recommend brewing up an AACT every few weeks to keep your mix active.
When I build final size pots for flowering I do it the Rev's way: TLO style with a "high N" bottom layer of soil mixed with a handful each of cow & chicken manure. On top of that I sprinkle a bit of crushed oyster shell and then some more mix and granular mycorrhizae. The root ball goes directly on top of that in contact with the myco and then backfilled with mix. Then I push in 2 Jobes organic spikes 180deg from each other. Spikes feed the plants through bloom phase right up to harvest time with water only and help push big frosty buds. Alotta growers around here don't agree with layering and spikes but I won't do it any other way. No matter if you add your fertilizer globally or in layers matters not IMO..the idea is to put what is needed in the containers before it is actually needed; the plants will find what they want as long as it is there....
I don't think you'll need those macros; what you've already added to your mix should be good enough but I would give an AACT say every 3 weeks or so from mid veg to mid bloom phase. Water only after week 6...the best thing you can do if you haven't already is to source some fresh EWC and/or start a worm bin. It's a small investment that pays out big time later on.
Click to expand...
Is there a brand of myco u suggest or is it all the same
 
Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Sidvicious1 said:
Hell yeah man, thanks for all the great info. I looked at some of ur pics and they look outstanding! If I can get close to that quality I will be more than happy.. even if the yields are low at first. Quality is what im I'm shooting for. like I said this is my first time with living organics and I just want to make sure I'm doing things right. I've been reading some of ur post and you seem to have a pretty good grasp on everything when it comes to it. One more question.. with ur mix do u have to add any nutes throughout the grow for phosphorus or potassium? Like when trasnplanting or starting flowering? Or does the mix itself feed the plant with the occasional AACT every few weeks?
Click to expand...
No I pretty much add only water and my mix is so rich these days I hardly even need to give teas all that much. You will need to give AACTs more often the first few cycles but once your mix has been recycled a few times you'll see it begins to reach supernatural status. A little bone meal shouldn't piss off the microbes too bad as long as you didn't give it too heavy. I found that living soil is easy to maintain if you never try to do anything drastic. They shouldn't need much else but water anyway if the soil is amended & recycled.
I do give my plants about 6 drops of general organics calmag+ at almost every watering because the distilled water from my dehumidifier has like 4ppm. 6 drops per gal equals about 25ppms which is optimal for uptake IMO. Rainwater doesn't need macros or anything else added in....
I like using mykos extreme but have read that Great White is good too. I also have used a generic granular myco from Amazon which was fairly cheap. I did not see much of a difference in performance between the generic and mykos brand but adding mycorrizea is essential; a total game changer.
 
Sidvicious1

Sidvicious1

Active Member
Richard Drysift said:
No I pretty much add only water and my mix is so rich these days I hardly even need to give teas all that much. You will need to give AACTs more often the first few cycles but once your mix has been recycled a few times you'll see it begins to reach supernatural status. A little bone meal shouldn't piss off the microbes too bad as long as you didn't give it too heavy. I found that living soil is easy to maintain if you never try to do anything drastic. They shouldn't need much else but water anyway if the soil is amended & recycled.
I do give my plants about 6 drops of general organics calmag+ at almost every watering because the distilled water from my dehumidifier has like 4ppm. 6 drops per gal equals about 25ppms which is optimal for uptake IMO. Rainwater doesn't need macros or anything else added in....
I like using mykos extreme but have read that Great White is good too. I also have used a generic granular myco from Amazon which was fairly cheap. I did not see much of a difference in performance between the generic and mykos brand but adding mycorrizea is essential; a total game changer.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I know I'm just beating the hell out of u with questions but they are much appreciated. My mixthat im currently cooking doesn't have any odor to it at all. It smells like dirt lol. I just assumednfrom they way people talked that it would smell worse and was wondering if It was just from not being damp enough or somthing.. im keep In it a little dryer than what u would get in a bag of potting mix. Like the top three inches of my toats are dry and I turn them every 3 days or so..
 
Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
It's all good; I love talking about growing or I wouldn't be on here. I got a lot of help from others here along with a ton of misinformed bullshit so helping out peeps starting out with organics I consider sort of a civic duty.
it seems at first like water only growing is a mystery but the secret is simple; just add compost and use a clean water source. Humus has a distinct smell. It's like a sweeter aroma than just any old dirt. The more active your living soil becomes through decomposition the more that sweet earth smell will come through. It gets better every time you recycle it. Sounds like you've got the idea; keep your recycling soil moist but not wet. A bit drier than what you would have in a planted container is perfect IMO
 
Sidvicious1

Sidvicious1

Active Member
Richard Drysift said:
It's all good; I love talking about growing or I wouldn't be on here. I got a lot of help from others here along with a ton of misinformed bullshit so helping out peeps starting out with organics I consider sort of a civic duty.
it seems at first like water only growing is a mystery but the secret is simple; just add compost and use a clean water source. Humus has a distinct smell. It's like a sweeter aroma than just any old dirt. The more active your living soil becomes through decomposition the more that sweet earth smell will come through. It gets better every time you recycle it. Sounds like you've got the idea; keep your recycling soil moist but not wet. A bit drier than what you would have in a planted container
Click to expand...
ok, i see what ur talking about with the earthy smell rather than just the average dirt smell... alright, ive had a small potential problem.. my mix that is cooking, I've had it outside in the sun sitting it toats. Well while I was at work an unexpected thunderstorm came through and completely drenched my mix. Now I know ur not suppose to get it completely soaked but what happened has happened so no since complaining about it. I brought them inside and the plan is to spread it out on a tarp and let it dry out and hope to god another storm doesn't com thru.. it has been drenched over night for about 14 hrs or so, soon as the weather clears up I'll be putting it on a tarp to dry. Hopefuly nothing with have gptten stagnant. do u think I will have any problems arise from this?
 
Sidvicious1

Sidvicious1

Active Member
What's up man. My ph is still running a little high in my mix up at about 7.8 or so. It's been staying there for a few weeks so I figure I would add somthibg like blood meal globally to bring it down some. Just thought I'd get ur opinion. Also I just got my neem seed meal in and will also be mixing that in globally I'm not sure how much per gal but I can find that out. Have u ever used it as a foliage spray? I've seen where a few people have written about it and didn't know if it's worth trying.. once again thanks for ur input.
 
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