Good Question....

You are assuming that conscience is what seperates us from animals.

Science would say that nothing really seperates us. Religion would have us be superior to animals.

I'm with science on that one. We're only superior in our heads.

My pets have a conscience. My dog knows that getting in the garbage is wrong, she also knows to act guilty when she's caught.

My cats know that they aren't allowed on the kitchen counters, they know it's wrong so they don't do it.

By who's standards are we judging right from wrong anyway? A wolf pack would never kill a mink to have its fur, I think they'd find it to be wrong that humans would.

People have our own standards of right and wrong but we don't adhere to them. Read the news on any day of the week, it's filled with lawmakers breaking laws, financial advisors taking peoples money and running, murders, rapes, child killings.

Other than the ability for abstract thought, I don't see much of a seperation between people and animals, and in some ways, I feel that animals are ahead of us.

Conscience... also dreams, love, music, bliss. Where is the model for these things in the universe? Random mutated cells answers none of these questions. Another thing that a Creatorless creation fails to explain is malice. Why do humans perform premeditated acts for the sole reason of hurting someone? If the answer is survival of the fittest, count me as unfit.

All animals, including humans, have instincts. What separates us from other animals (generally speaking) is that we do not have to kill each other out of instinct; we do it because we choose to. What separates humans from other biological entities is the ability to love. Sadly, hardly anyone practices real love.

pamaris said:

Conscience... also dreams, love, music, bliss. Where is the model for these things in the universe? Random mutated cells answers none of these questions. Another thing that a Creatorless creation fails to explain is malice. Why do humans perform premeditated acts for the sole reason of hurting someone? If the answer is survival of the fittest, count me as unfit.

All animals, including humans, have instincts. What separates us from other animals (generally speaking) is that we do not have to kill each other out of instinct; we do it because we choose to. What separates humans from other biological entities is the ability to love. Sadly, hardly anyone practices real love.

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Animals can love, dream, feel happiness, and kill each other through choice or spite. They don't act any more, or less, on instinct than people do. We just like to elevate ourselves above them to massage our egos.

As for malice being proof of creation, I fail to see the connection.

Nocturn3 said:

Animals can love, dream, feel happiness, and kill each other through choice or spite. They don't act any more, or less, on instinct than people do. We just like to elevate ourselves above them to massage our egos.

As for malice being proof of creation, I fail to see the connection.

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ARGH I didn't say malice was proof of creation- I simply said a Creatorless creation fails to answer the questions adequately. WHY does malice exist at all? WHY do we dream? WHY do we love? (It ain't because it feels good- true love sacrifices-- so WHY do we sacrifice our desires to help someone else)? Why do rich, independent old ladies open up orphanages in Africa? If it were all instinct, we would only protect our own; to hell with the rest. These things are meaningless to some, but they sure do matter to me.

Animals definitely have a conscious. I can see personality in my dogs. But for some reason they lack a voice. Why is this? Why are we the only creatures that can speak multiple fluent languages, when the other animals can't speak at all?

Animals have a way of communication with each other, but they don't speak words.

Mine have a voice

they bark one way if someone is here, another way if they need water, a third to go outside, a fourth to come inside, a fifth if the cats are straying to near, a sixth if they're playful............

Very interesting thread, thoughts and, opinions there within. I think we could speak and delve into this convo for ages. But many good questions have been raised. I guess all creatures do carry on in an instinctive way to survive. But It kinda seems like survival over the years has been easier to come by, for humans and animals alike. In turn, giving us more time to love, dream, desire, explore, etc., without constantly being in survival mode. I don't really know though, this is all just my opinion on it. As for malice, I guess it is what it is. Even in the animal world there are species that kill for the sake of killing. I mean killing without the need to eat. But who knows...