GH 3 part system vs. lucas formula

Hello,

a quick question:

Do you think it is better to use the recommended strength of GH nutrients listed on the bottles, or the Lucas Formula?

I realize that when using the GH nutes, you have to also buy the Gro solution. And using the Lucas Formula you only need Micro and Bloom solutions.

I am just wondering what people think is a better way to go. It seems to me that using the Lucas Formula uses a lot less nutrients per gallon of water. Which makes me wonder if the recommended strength listed on the GH bottles is more than is needed?

I hope to hear what people think. I'm currently running a test between the 2 sytems (GH 3 part vs. Lucas Formula) on a couple of my girls. But I just started that today. I'd like to hear some of yoru thoughts.

Thank you,
-Snut

PS
I'm in vegetation at the moment. But I will run my experiments all the way through flowering... I will post pics when I can.

snutter said:

Hello,

a quick question:

Do you think it is better to use the recommended strength of GH nutrients listed on the bottles, or the Lucas Formula?

I realize that when using the GH nutes, you have to also buy the Gro solution. And using the Lucas Formula you only need Micro and Bloom solutions.

I am just wondering what people think is a better way to go. It seems to me that using the Lucas Formula uses a lot less nutrients per gallon of water. Which makes me wonder if the recommended strength listed on the GH bottles is more than is needed?

I hope to hear what people think. I'm currently running a test between the 2 sytems (GH 3 part vs. Lucas Formula) on a couple of my girls. But I just started that today. I'd like to hear some of yoru thoughts.

Thank you,
-Snut

PS
I'm in vegetation at the moment. But I will run my experiments all the way through flowering... I will post pics when I can.

Click to expand...

i like fox farm

I got the biggest yeild I ever had from the lucus method in a dwc.

I am currently trying it in soil. Check out my grow journal. I'm trying a few other nutes as well. Bio bizz, flora nova, miracle grow( i know)

stupid said:

I got the biggest yeild I ever had from the lucus method in a dwc.

I am currently trying it in soil. Check out my grow journal. I'm trying a few other nutes as well. Bio bizz, flora nova, miracle grow( i know)

Click to expand...

I'll check it out. I also think that I will start one myself. I really like this site.

Thanks for the replies so far. I hope more people will continue to respond. The more responses the better...

Also, I should have mentioned that I am running a DWC system.

-Snut

Hey I'm also using the three part Gh flora series and I would have to say the Grow does run alittle high in Nitrogen but can help alot in the veg. part of the grow but is't really needed in the blooming phase. That said, I would do some research and see what works for you and how your growing. Best of Luck

I am on my 9th plant, pretty new to this, but here is what have have experienced. I started out using the directions from GH, I was having issues with too much nitrogen. Once I started using the lucas method the issued went away. If you use the lucas stay away from any additives unless you have to have them. You can add something like botanicare sweet or GH flora nectar but otherwise I would avoid. My first plant was doing great under the lucas method, I added humbolt gravity and started to get burn, I noticed it right away and stopped and off a 16 inch plant I harvested over 3oz dry, all the branches were solid bud. Then my second plant I used sweet added to the lucas formula and no issues at all. I have one clone purple buddha and 2 cali orange in 12/12 now and all was great, added some kool bloom to the mix and started to see what looked like magnesium toxicity, so..... I redid the nutes and it all cleared up and looks better now. So now, I will not use any additives except sweet or flora nectar. One mistake with the plants nutes can slow the flower time down to a halt and really set you back. I am sure the right combo would work, but the lucas formula on it's own does a great job and is simple. I would rather get 2oz from a plant than maybe 20% more and not have to worry about poisioning them and delaying the harvest. I have no green thumb and only do about 15 min in a.m and 15 in p.m a day working with the plants and results have been very good just keeping it simple, plus you don't have to buy grow nutes which saves money. The Lucas method is simular to the nova series in npk #'s I think by what I seen in the store on the bottles. I am sticking with this now, cheap, reliable and the bud I have grown has been up there with the best strains I have had medically. I would never follow the universal directions on the bottles, esp when it doesn't state if it is for growing mj or lettuce.

I'm using the GH 3 part in veg right now and my plant looks super healthy and I couldn't be more happier. I mean my mother plant is absolutely flawless without any yellowing or burnt tips. I am following the instructions on the bottle and haven't had any problems whatsoever.

The only thing I don't like is the salt buildup but if you flush once every 2 weeks, you'll be fine.

I started using GH because it came with the kit I bought but I was going to change to a different nute when this stuff ran out. I was so happy with the way things turned out that I'm sticking with this stuff.

petrol420 said:

I'm using the GH 3 part in veg right now and my plant looks super healthy and I couldn't be more happier. I mean my mother plant is absolutely flawless without any yellowing or burnt tips. I am following the instructions on the bottle and haven't had any problems whatsoever.

The only thing I don't like is the salt buildup but if you flush once every 2 weeks, you'll be fine.

I started using GH because it came with the kit I bought but I was going to change to a different nute when this stuff ran out. I was so happy with the way things turned out that I'm sticking with this stuff.

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WOW!! Your girls are looking awesome!! I really hope that mine come back from the brink of starvation. I have hope, since they haven't wilted up and died... Now that I have the nutes correct, I'm hoping they come out of shock and start growing for me again. In the beginning I was seeing 2 and a half to 3 inches of growth a day. which was awesome!!!

quick question for you Petrol420: What are you keeping your PH at, and are you running a hydro system?

-Snut

snutter said:

Hello,

a quick question:

Do you think it is better to use the recommended strength of GH nutrients listed on the bottles, or the Lucas Formula?

I realize that when using the GH nutes, you have to also buy the Gro solution. And using the Lucas Formula you only need Micro and Bloom solutions.

I am just wondering what people think is a better way to go. It seems to me that using the Lucas Formula uses a lot less nutrients per gallon of water. Which makes me wonder if the recommended strength listed on the GH bottles is more than is needed?

I hope to hear what people think. I'm currently running a test between the 2 sytems (GH 3 part vs. Lucas Formula) on a couple of my girls. But I just started that today. I'd like to hear some of yoru thoughts.

Thank you,
-Snut

PS
I'm in vegetation at the moment. But I will run my experiments all the way through flowering... I will post pics when I can.

Click to expand...

The beauty of the GH formulas is their flexibility. You can tailor it to your particular whims. I use the 3-2-1 formula that GH recommends for vegetative. I use the Lucas Formula for budding. I tried using the 1-2-3 formula that GH recommends for flowering but there is such a high level of nitrogen that they stretch too much. If you really want a good stretch, use the 1-2-3 for the first two weeks of flowering then switch to the Lucas formula. You get a good stretch and solid buds that way.

The recommended formulas (from GH) are generic recommendations for most plants where the Lucas Formula is designed for weed.

snutter said:

WOW!! Your girls are looking awesome!! I really hope that mine come back from the brink of starvation. I have hope, since they haven't wilted up and died... Now that I have the nutes correct, I'm hoping they come out of shock and start growing for me again. In the beginning I was seeing 2 and a half to 3 inches of growth a day. which was awesome!!!

quick question for you Petrol420: What are you keeping your PH at, and are you running a hydro system?

-Snut

Click to expand...

The pics you see are the mothers in a cheap DWC that I set up with 2 liter soda bottles.

I don't have an electronic PH meter so I use one of those cheap ones that use the vial and drops of some kind of chemical. Anyways its in the 6 range.

My tap water is PH 7 and after I filter it through my Brita, it's in the 6.5 range and then after I add the nutes, it drops to around the 6 range. But honestly, I don't even test the PH anymore since I know what's going on with my procedure and there is no way in hell to stabilize the PH. The PH is going to have wild fluctuations no matter what you do so why worry about it if your plant is looking healthy. Let your plant show you that there's a PH imbalance, not some stupid meter.

petrol420 said:

The pics you see are the mothers in a cheap DWC that I set up with 2 liter soda bottles.

I don't have an electronic PH meter so I use one of those cheap ones that use the vial and drops of some kind of chemical. Anyways its in the 6 range.

My tap water is PH 7 and after I filter it through my Brita, it's in the 6.5 range and then after I add the nutes, it drops to around the 6 range. But honestly, I don't even test the PH anymore since I know what's going on with my procedure and there is no way in hell to stabilize the PH. The PH is going to have wild fluctuations no matter what you do so why worry about it if your plant is looking healthy. Let your plant show you that there's a PH imbalance, not some stupid meter.

Click to expand...

I would have to disagree, If your PH is fluctuating to much it could harm your plants just as badly as if you over fert. them. A reasonable cheap electric PH meter on ebay will go sell anywhere from $15 to $90 dollars.I always try to keep my PH between 5.7 and 6.0.I guess it depends on how serious you want to be about your grow and i'm to much of a perfectionest to not keep track of it I'm growing Nirvanas Wonder woman right now, and they seem to be healthy enough.

petrol420 said:

The pics you see are the mothers in a cheap DWC that I set up with 2 liter soda bottles.

I don't have an electronic PH meter so I use one of those cheap ones that use the vial and drops of some kind of chemical. Anyways its in the 6 range.

My tap water is PH 7 and after I filter it through my Brita, it's in the 6.5 range and then after I add the nutes, it drops to around the 6 range. But honestly, I don't even test the PH anymore since I know what's going on with my procedure and there is no way in hell to stabilize the PH. The PH is going to have wild fluctuations no matter what you do so why worry about it if your plant is looking healthy. Let your plant show you that there's a PH imbalance, not some stupid meter.

Click to expand...

I hear what you're say dude, but if the PH is not at the correct levels, it can easily lock out essential nutes, especially nitrogen. The trick is the get the PH to a level that allows the nutrients bond to the roots and become easily available for the plants to consume...

But I'll tell you what, I will try what you've mentioned. I will set up one my clones when it is big enough they way you do. and I will not mess with PH until I see the plant telling me that it is unhappy.

-Snut

yes, exactly right tommy359. I'm with you on that. I've learned that PH balance is so very very very important when it comes to the plants being able to get the nutes they need. early on I had a PH lockout problem. My PH meter was out of calibration and reading 1 point high (e.g. a reading of 7.0 was really 8.0). It really screwed things up for me until I cal'd my meter. Now it works fun and i trust it.

Another thing is Petrol420, some plants do indeed like to run at different PH levels. But a general rule of thumb is this: No less than 5.3 and no higher than 6.0 if you're running a hydro system. At least that is what I've seen, been taught, read at this site, and so generally believe...

Right now I'm running a test where I bought purified water from the store and am using it. My thought process on this is that my tap water may be too hard. If that's the case, it can also cause nutrients to bond to trace elements in it, and therefore rob my plants of essential nutes that they need as well. I'll run a thread about this once I see some results.

-Snut

I've been using my tap and the micro for hard water, my pH has never waivered from ideal range. I don't even bother to check it anymore.

vh13 said:

I've been using my tap and the micro for hard water, my pH has never waivered from ideal range. I don't even bother to check it anymore.

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I've heard good things about that Micro for Hard water, especially when it comes to PH levels. I've heard the same thing you just said: People using it are not having to bother adjusting their PH. I've read it has something to do with the hard water Flora Micro nutes. They are PH balanced, but since it's designed for hard water, it continually drives the PH levels down to an acceptable level.

I'm going to buy a bottle of the hard water micro. when I have a chance down the line, I will run an experiment with it as well.... In general, I am trying to learn what will work best for me, and delver best results. It's gonna take some time and a lot of effort....But I love growing. It's the best hobby I've started since playing guitar, brewing beer.

-Snut

tommy359 said:

I would have to disagree, If your PH is fluctuating to much it could harm your plants just as badly as if you over fert. them. A reasonable cheap electric PH meter on ebay will go sell anywhere from $15 to $90 dollars.I always try to keep my PH between 5.7 and 6.0.I guess it depends on how serious you want to be about your grow and i'm to much of a perfectionest to not keep track of it I'm growing Nirvanas Wonder woman right now, and they seem to be healthy enough.

Click to expand...

I think by nature that the PH is going to fluctuate wildly no matter what you do. As I scan these message boards and a PH topic pops up, its always about not being able to stabilize the PH and its driving the grower crazy.

Any mad attempt at trying to stabilize the PH in a marijuana grow is entering into OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) territory. But if that's you and everybody else who tries to stabilize the PH in their grow, more power to you because to each is own.

All I was trying to do was tell people to relax and not freak out if your PH goes from 5.2 to 6.5 because if you leave it alone and check it 2 hours later, it'll probably be 5.8 and 2 hours after that, it might be 7 and etc... That's why I say let your plant tell you there's a PH problem but again, if that's your thing, more power to you.

And wouldn't you identify a PH problem by wilting and yellowing leaves even though you have the plant well watered and fed?

petrol420 said:

I think by nature that the PH is going to fluctuate wildly no matter what you do. As I scan these message boards and a PH topic pops up, its always about not being able to stabilize the PH and its driving the grower crazy.

Any mad attempt at trying to stabilize the PH in a marijuana grow is entering into OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) territory. But if that's you and everybody else who tries to stabilize the PH in their grow, more power to you because to each is own.

All I was trying to do was tell people to relax and not freak out if your PH goes from 5.2 to 6.5 because if you leave it alone and check it 2 hours later, it'll probably be 5.8 and 2 hours after that, it might be 7 and etc... That's why I say let your plant tell you there's a PH problem but again, if that's your thing, more power to you.

And wouldn't you identify a PH problem by wilting and yellowing leaves even though you have the plant well watered and fed?

Click to expand...

That is the worst PH advise Ive ever seen given in a hydroponics forum. It is very obvious that you have never grown hydroponically.

It is simple to stablize PH and it is very important. Best bet is to keep it under 6 and above 5.5

Get a ph meter or at least a cheap PH test kit. Generally PH rises as the plants use nutrients. If you have nothing to knock it back down, use some lemon juice. White vinegar will work in a pinch too. When adjusting PH you do it a little at a time. You should get some proper PH up and PH down solutions from your hydro store.

If you ignore PH you will pay the price.

GreenThumbSucker said:

That is the worst PH advise Ive ever seen given in a hydroponics forum. It is very obvious that you have never grown hydroponically.

It is simple to stablize PH and it is very important. Best bet is to keep it under 6 and above 5.5

Get a ph meter or at least a cheap PH test kit. Generally PH rises as the plants use nutrients. If you have nothing to knock it back down, use some lemon juice. White vinegar will work in a pinch too. When adjusting PH you do it a little at a time. You should get some proper PH up and PH down solutions from your hydro store.

If you ignore PH you will pay the price.

Click to expand...

Sorry Petrol, but I have to agree with greenthumb on this one!! Number one, I too have seen posts here where people talk about bad ph fluctuations, but I think that is more with soil. Number 2, With hydro, it is pretty easy to get your PH where you want it, and get it to stay there for the most part. yes, it will fluctuate, but not as wild as you stated. Maybe a tenth or two of a point each day. But that is so easily managed with very minimal amounts of PH up and PH down liquids.

Again, I can not stress how important having your PH levels correct in a hydro system. Too high or too low will cause nutrient lock out, which will cause grief beyond grief.. It's as simple as that.

I won't go in to this much more as there are MANY threads talking about this, which is where I learned how to control my PH levels, and why they are so important.

-Snut

petrol420 said:

I think by nature that the PH is going to fluctuate wildly no matter what you do. As I scan these message boards and a PH topic pops up, its always about not being able to stabilize the PH and its driving the grower crazy.

Any mad attempt at trying to stabilize the PH in a marijuana grow is entering into OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) territory. But if that's you and everybody else who tries to stabilize the PH in their grow, more power to you because to each is own.

All I was trying to do was tell people to relax and not freak out if your PH goes from 5.2 to 6.5 because if you leave it alone and check it 2 hours later, it'll probably be 5.8 and 2 hours after that, it might be 7 and etc... That's why I say let your plant tell you there's a PH problem but again, if that's your thing, more power to you.

And wouldn't you identify a PH problem by wilting and yellowing leaves even though you have the plant well watered and fed?

Click to expand...

Well actually my PH by nature doesn't fluctuate wildly an there are no mad attempts to stabilize. I check my Ph daily and have since I started hydroponics, I then write it down along with PPM.My PH after nutrients goes from a 5.7 to 6.0 in seven days. Never had a problem with Ph going from a 5.2 to 6.5 and IF I did I would damn sure know about it before it got insanely out of hand and started to hurt my girls.

snutter said:

Sorry Petrol, but I have to agree with greenthumb on this one!! Number one, I too have seen posts here where people talk about bad ph fluctuations, but I think that is more with soil. Number 2, With hydro, it is pretty easy to get your PH where you want it, and get it to stay there for the most part. yes, it will fluctuate, but not as wild as you stated. Maybe a tenth or two of a point each day. But that is so easily managed with very minimal amounts of PH up and PH down liquids.

Again, I can not stress how important having your PH levels correct in a hydro system. Too high or too low will cause nutrient lock out, which will cause grief beyond grief.. It's as simple as that.

I won't go in to this much more as there are MANY threads talking about this, which is where I learned how to control my PH levels, and why they are so important.

-Snut

Click to expand...

Let me ask you this snutter, did you actually have ph problems where your plant was suffering before you started to monitor your PH as closely as you do?

I ask this because I know how easy it is to get caught up in getting too paranoid about our plants and it takes the fun out of growing.

Do you not agree that in Hydro that you see problems pretty quickly but you could fix them pretty quickly as well?

I feel that if you have been growing your plant one way the whole time and it was doing fine but suddenly the plant started yellowing and wilting, then I would assume that there is a nutrient lockout due to a PH imbalance or a salt buildup in the medium that would require flushing. This would be a quick fix, then you could go back to playing Xbox or something.

I think when you're growing your own, it should be an enjoyable experience, unless it's for profit. When you try to monitor everything and make changes too quickly, I feel it takes the fun out of gardening and makes it feel as if you're at work.

I'll tell you what. GreenThumbSucker said it's obvious that I've never grown Hydro for which he is correct. So far, I've successfully finished a veg stage where I hardly monitored my PH level at all and the 2 mother plants that I grew came out great. I'm almost in the flowering stage because I'm waiting for 7 more cuttings to root. I'm going to continue my grow without monitoring the PH on an OCD level and at the end, which should be around January, I'll let you all know what problems I had during the flowering stage.