Getting new equipment

Hi guys,

Well, I was going to go cheap at first but then I read on things. I decided I want to take this seriously and to do so you need the right tools.

So far my grow tent is 4' wide x 3' deep x 7' height.

I was going to go with digital ballast but I decided to go with a Magnetic ballast since I find a great deal for a Maverick Sun 600watt HPS/MH Steel magnetic ballast for 50.00 free shipping!!!!

Only problem with the ballast is that I am not sure about which MH and HPS bulbs to get. I tried looking up specific brand/bulb's that will work either in this ballast or for Magnetic ballast.

I see on the Maverick sun webpage they have bulbs called Dlux bulbs and I am pretty sure they would be compatible. Since I now have the money I may choose to get a Dlux hps and Dlux MH bulb.

Unless anyone suggests something else that is solid I am looking for that advice. Getting tired of reading, getting tired of my hopes up only to find something else 5 minutes later and then seem to forget it all.

On with the rest of the equipment.....

For the size of my tent I am going to go with a Can Filter 33 and the Can Fan S-600. Do you think a speed controller is needed ?

For my air cooled reflector I have choose to go with the Blockbuster 6" reflector.

That so far I know I am getting solid unless someone suggests otherwise?

What I am having an issue with is getting a Co2 controller/monitor..... I already have a solenoid and tank just need the controller/monitor.

I found these three so far the --

1. IGS-061 Co2 smart controller-- Does not state fuzzy logic but pretty sure it has it.

2. Titan Atlas 1 with fuzzy logic

3, Sentinel CPPM-$ co2 with fuzzy logic

can anyone lay some insight or experience with any of those? I cannot decide.

Other than that I have one Elemental Solutions 951 GPH o2 pump for my DWC bucket which is only 3.5 gallons. Was thinking of getting another one so I can do two buckets at once and each bucket has its own O2 pump. Do you think a 951gph O2 pump can handle two 3.5 gallon dwc buckets? Or one per bucket is best?

I use the really good medium size airstones too.

Thanks

Forgot one thing.

I am going to use MH for veg and HPS for flower..

I have my old put together ballast that is 400 watt HPS ballast...

If I was to get instead of a 600watt MH bulb for the new ballast and got a 400 watt HPS conversion to MH 400 watt bulb. would adding the 400 watt conversion setup with the HPS 600watt during flowering be better than MH 600watt veg and 600wat hps flower?

Ideally, you want an even plant canopy and even light distribution. Even light distribution comes from using the same wattage lights with quality reflectors, and having the correct lighting overlap (reflector spacing).

Personally, I think using CO2 and one 600 watt bulb is a waste of time, effort, and cash.

- Jiji

What if during flowering I use the 600watt hps and my other 400 watt hps, would that be enough to make co2 worth it or is the benefit only with 1000watt and above?

tony8404 said:

What if during flowering I use the 600watt hps and my other 400 watt hps, would that be enough to make co2 worth it or is the benefit only with 1000watt and above?

Click to expand...

If it were me, no. If your strapped for cash, just a 600 with ventilation can do well. If you have space in the future upgrade to a 1000, or two 600's etc. When your room is at maximum light saturation, and everything is dialed in and you want to try CO2, then go for it.

There's a subculture of growers in my area, and I've seen a lot of grows. Most of the grows that use CO2 around here are kind of sad. It's definitely not magic.

- Jiji

I understand where your coming from. Just to let you know too JiJiandfarmgang- I seen a lot of your posts and you share good information and detail! I noticed the problem is that no one listens to ya!!!!

So I am hoping you know that I am listening just my bad for being so lengthy as I can talk... But I listen so please indulge when you can your not ignored. I read top to bottom.

my problem here is this... I have about $1,500 to spend if not more. Instead of just buying all brand name stuff I am doing the research.. I kid you not in the last two days I spent about 36 hours reading and 12 for sleep!

The problem here is that I only have this cash for limited time. What I do not buy now I may not be able to for a long time. I am growing for myself only and my dad who has back disc problems and nerve problems in the neck. So I am his medicinal guy since we do not live in a legal state.

I am just tired of growing dirt bud or regular bud... Have a lot under my belt and know the time is to go pro.... Since I have the cash now is the reason I am pushing the extra co2 gear. I know one day I will kick my self if I do not buy now.

With that said....

I am really leaning to two co2 controllers..

I am looking at the sentinel cppm-4 for 323.00 and the Titan atlas 1 for 315.00

What is stoping my decision is

a. I cannot find anything that states the atlas 1 has fuzzy logic. I read in a forum someone stating the titan 1 and atlas 8 have fuzzy logic. when ever I search I do not find anything stating atlas 1 has fuzzy logic. so with the price so similar I would rather go with fuzzy logic than not with the price. yet I like the look and simplicity of the atlas 1.

Even on their webpage I cannot find it documented its a fuzzy logic for the atlas 1.. any thoughts?

I'll comment on the speed switch. For how cheap a variable switch is, it's well worth it. I like to leave my inline fan running at lights-off, but it doesn't need to run on full blast. I simply dial it down to as low as it will go when lights go off in the morning.

-spek

spek9 thank you for the input..

I am going to go with the Vortex S-line 6" for like 135.00 has its own damper and I read you can use a speed switch with it but it has to be a Dial - A -Temp and they sell those at home depot for like 25.00.... This way I can adjust speed as I do not think I will need 100% for cooling 600watt bulb in a blockbuster fan straight from one side of room through the other end. I am putting a stand alone scrubber in the room so I can co2 when I am comfy.

As for stand alone scrubber....

I found this one on Ebay for 114.95 and it is refillable too! It states at the very end of the ad that it will exchange the air in a 8x8x8 room once every 3 minutes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HYDROPONIC-CARBON-AIR-FILTER-WITH-130-CFM-FAN-REFILLABLE-/400363352242?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item5d3783f0b2

Question is which setup is better to go with?

My other option is a can filter 9000 which does 118cfm. Since my room is 4x3x7 which is 84 cubic feet. That filter does 94 cubic feet.

but tricky part what fan to go with?

Blauberg Axial 6" fan that does 155cfm $25.00 and use a speed controller?

Eco supply 4.5" Axial fan 112cfm at $23.00 and use speed controller.

4" active air blower exhaust fan 180cfm for $70.00 and use speed controller.

Advice on what to do ?

You have no idea what you are doing. Where are you going to exhaust air to? Your filter should be on your exhaust, and you will need one unless you want to spend lots of money on humidity and temp control. The CO2 is only a viable option once you seal up your room, spend the money on humidity and A/C, then get a CO2 tank and regulator, and even then you won't gain much unless you also up your lights to >10,000 lumens per sqft of HPS.

The issue to focus on is the bottleneck issue. Your plants need light, nutrients/water, CO2, and temperature/humidity. You need to get to the point where you have eliminated all the other bottlenecks before you bother with CO2 as it's almost never the bottleneck, the exceptions are where CO2 shines. You need to get yourself up to the point of being able to perform near perfection without CO2 before CO2 has any hope of helping you.

nomofatum,

okay forget the co2 I will just put the money I do not spend on that now in an account for when I am ready then.

To work out the bottlenecks then, lets start with the ventilation/filtration system...

From what I read it is best to pull the air through the hood then push it.

So setup would look like this

filter-fan-reflector-exit or filter-reflector- fan -exit

I would pull the air from in the room, through filter then through reflector out of room... Just not sure which end benefits placing the fan at the filter or at the end of exit

would this be a good start?

You are right no clue...

I believe I need at least 200 cfm fan to pull through the filter cool the 600wattt. With that I think I would be safe getting a bigger fan and place a speed control on it just in case I need to go higher.

I will need the can 33 filter...

Though I am not sure that is big enough now that I think about it.

Reason is what if I need to turn the fan speed up past 200 cfm?

That would not scrub the air correctly right? so that means I would have to go with a can 50 or can 66 correct?

It won't make a bit of difference if the fan is on either side, I'm not sure if life would be better on the cooler moister side or on the warmer dryer side, but life of the fan is the only thing I can see being impacted. (both sides should be well within the operating specs of your fan)

Your space is 84 cubic feet, the general rule of thumb in to clear your air every 2 minutes, faster is a waste and can cost you greatly on efficiency, too much slower and heat will build up. That would be an actual performance of 42 CFM, A 200 CFM fan will put out about 140 CFM with a normal scrubber, so you will need a fan controller to slow it down. If you can determine the static pressure of your system (static pressure of filter + ducting) you can usually find a output curve showing how many CFM the fan can actually push with your system.

You can oversize your venting, but remember it will cost you greatly if you are heating or cooling that air.

I appreciate any time go over this with me. I got way to excited I finally had cash to get a nice setup/ glad I slowed down.

okay perfect...

Now before I get into fans should I decide on the filter first?

My choices on brand are Can filter, Phresh, mountain air.

This is where I get a bit confused. I see Phresh has a 150 then a 200 cfm rated filter. I would think the 150 as you stated 140 would put out 140 cfm with scrubber if anything I would dial up the speed controller.

The can filter I believe I would need the can 33 that has max recirculating of 400 cfm and max exhaust of 200 cfm. That is where I get confused. I need to worry about the max exhaust cfm correct?

Mountian air is over kill but thought I would put it out there so I understand. They have a 265cfm 6" flange.

What ya think nomofatum?

Problem is most of the filters don't actually publish their static pressure so you can't size exactly. Most are 0.2" to 0.5", and that doesn't drop your CFM much. You just want to make sure your fan will adjust down to a much lower CFM without running like crap.

Thanks for the ego boost. The sentinel is nice and has fuzzy logic, I've never seen the atlas in person.

nomofatum said:

Problem is most of the filters don't actually publish their static pressure so you can't size exactly. Most are 0.2" to 0.5", and that doesn't drop your CFM much. You just want to make sure your fan will adjust down to a much lower CFM without running like crap.

Click to expand...

Actually Phresh does.

Anyways, the smaller the filter the larger the increase in static pressure. Personally I like Phat filters, and I always oversize them for a few reasons. Less pressure, lasts longer, works better.

You can go crazy comparing numbers and estimating pressure drops, then hopefully the quality fan you purchase publishes a graph of cfm @ different pressures. Just oversize.

9 times out of ten I install the fan after everything pulling, as its more efficient, but it really doesn't matter.

- Jiji

It's really funny when you see someone go nuts about the efficiency of their lighting, then go overboard with venting. You can burn more electricity or gas keeping your temps then you do on lights if you oversize the venting and exhaust outside. If you exhaust indoors (only reasonable during winter) it's a different story. It would take 80 minutes for a 200 cfm fan to remove all the heated/cooled air in a 2000 sqft home with 8ft ceilings. If you only need to remove 40 cfm to maintain heat and instead remove 200 cfm that means you need to heat/cool 160 extra cubic feet of air per minute, you can easily double your heating/cooling bill with stupid venting designs.

Basically you want your venting to be as slow as possible while maintaining temps and controlling odor.

I will go with the phat filter 275 cfm 6x12. Which will leave it a bit oversize which will work well with the suggestions I just was told.

Now just not sure which fan to pick... The vortex s-line 6" 327cfm and use speed control or the fan-max 6" 334cfm high, medium 265, low 201 wich built in speed control or the phresh hyper fan with 315 cfm with built in speed controller I know this one has more power to it. Just cannot decide.. Though if I get the max fan and either of the three speed options do not suite my needs I am screwed. Which would you guys pick?

Those mixed axial fans pulling through a filter in a tent would probably struggle with temps in summer unless you have air conditioning.

Depends on ambient temps, where your exhausting, if your using air cooled reflector.

- Jiji

my room is in a basement so during summer it is pretty chilled down there. plus I have an full house airconditioning. I vent into the basement from the tent. my basement is a full size basement as big as the house.

The vortex s line is something else than an axial fan. it is new tech. I read all about them the other night just do not remember details. I do know it has a built in auto damper. when the fan is off the damper closes to block light and bugs and air. When it turns on the damper opens. the damper is also removable easily.

I read a bit on the phresh hyper fan too and saw a demo where the butted up the max fan to the vortex clamped together to see which was stonger using a dollar in front of each fan. when both turned on it was like a tug a war but the fan max one. The phresh fan does have a built in accurate speed controller.

I saw the fan max first and like it just the speed control worries me now as it is only a 3 speed adjustment as with the vortex I can get a dial a temp and use any setting or 100% to 30% from what I read.

Shoot I think I am going with the Vortex or phresh fan now forget the fanmax....

the nice thing about the vortes s line is that you can remove the fan from the flanges connecting your duct work. so you can clean or even reach on through to your bulb to switch out like I am going to do between veg and flower.

Shoot going with the vortex now loll. talked myself into it!!!!

Now that I got the ventilation system done.

I am going to get the phat filter 275cfm, the vortex s-line 327cfm and the blockbuster 6" air cooled hood.

How does that sound? I am stokec.. shoot been sitting here for hours time for a bowl

!!!!