For soil, why do manufacturers add nutes when we're all supplementing anyway

Digibeast

Member
I'll be using FoxFarms Ocean Forest Soil and the existing nutrients add more complexity than I want or need. If I bought the same soil without added nutes I'd be able to follow a more standard "recipe." Instead I have to consider existing nutes that come with the product, how they diminish in time, all while I try to decide what additional supplements I should add and when I should add them.

It would be simpler to buy bags of the same soil with little or no additives... let's say worm castings if needed for some reason... and then add supplements from a selection that is more standardized or widely understood.

What am I missing? Thanks! Yes, I've searched for this elsewhere and here.
 

MarinaraGuy

New Member
For the first 3 - 5 weeks of veg you won't be adding nutes, just water, bc the plants are young and susceptible to nute burn. This is a reason you'd want soil with nutes.
 
the 1/10000th of the population growing a 10-20 dollar seed that is going to produce 200-500 dollars wortha bud (PER PLANT) isn't on the minds of the mass producing soil compainies. instead they are worrying about jonny 2x4 who is 1/995 growing 50 cent tomato seeds worth 4-8 dollar buds =D and those guys aren't babying shit, they want to water their plants every 2 weeks and then kill a 6 pack
 

ricky1lung

Well-Known Member
I'll be using FoxFarms Ocean Forest Soil and the existing nutrients add more complexity than I want or need. If I bought the same soil without added nutes I'd be able to follow a more standard "recipe." Instead I have to consider existing nutes that come with the product, how they diminish in time, all while I try to decide what additional supplements I should add and when I should add them.

It would be simpler to buy bags of the same soil with little or no additives... let's say worm castings if needed for some reason... and then add supplements from a selection that is more standardized or widely understood.

What am I missing? Thanks! Yes, I've searched for this elsewhere and here.
Try a soiless medium like promix, sounds like it fits your growing style.

In promix there really is nothing for nutes, you have to start light feedings in the first couple
of weeks but the advantage is knowing what is going in and how to adjust your feedings as the grow
progresses.
 

Nullis

Moderator
It doesn't sound like you even want to be growing in soil. As mentioned, there are soil-less potting mixes available that don't contain anything other than the substrate for plant growth, such as Pro-Mix, Sunshine mixes and Sunshine Advanced #4, etc. or if you want to go that route then why not just build your own mix from the ground up?

Most potting mixes are based on sphagnum peat moss and are not "soil" at all. Coco coir has been used for the purpose more recently, and is superior to sphagnum in several ways (not as acidic, high porosity, more sustainable). Newer mixes often contain both sphagnum and coir. Earthworm castings or compost\humus maybe added for various reasons and are usually present in 'potting soils' which intend to behave more like soils (adds microbial activity, increase water\nutrient retention\cation exchange and buffering capacity, contribute to the structure of the mix, etc). And then you have a few notable inert materials like perlite and pumice which are added for structural reasons.

Ocean Forest has sandy loam, which is essentially real soil of a particular proportion sand, silt and clay. Of course there is also sphagnum peat in Ocean Forest, and sphagnum can be quite acidic, so lime is necessary to bring the pH into an acceptable range. OF uses oyster shell flour for this, which is a form of calcium carbonate.

There are plenty of guides and 'recipes' for potting mix on here which use these ingredients and more. For many people it is more complicated to source all of the materials and mix everything together never mind waiting for it to age. I usually use OF with some amendments (coco coir for one thing). The thing with castings and compost\humus is that you really don't know what exactly is in it, although you might have a general idea. Unless you took it to a lab and had it tested you just don't know the mineral content or microbial activity of it.
 

bird mcbride

Well-Known Member
This is why I do hydro in lava rock and hydroton. I know exactly what's going into my plants. The only way you're going to get good dirt is start this year to plan to grow next year and getting the ph correct is a lot of meticulous work.
 

Nullis

Moderator
^ I disagree. Living soils shouldn't need much meticulous work or maintenance or pH adjusting... the bulk of the 'work' goes into putting it together, but after that it more or less takes care of itself. This is the purpose of the living organic\super soil: we're creating an environment for the plant roots which is also thriving with microbial activity, rich in organic matter, able to hold onto nutrients and supply oxygen while retaining moisture. Cannabis\plants in general didn't evolve alone and have been able to grow without being fertilized by humans for the larger part of their existence.

In the soil they have and seek the assistance of microbes either directly or indirectly. So without getting into too much detail for those who might not be aware, plants in nature form various symbiotic or mutually beneficial relationships with organisms that live in the soil. These include fungi, bacteria and archaea (single celled organisms which are very difficult to distinguish from bacteria). Other microbes: protozoans and nematodes live in the soil and typically eat bacteria and fungi, but may eat other microbes including other protozoans, while some nematodes attack plant roots (some fungi parasitize root-eating nematodes).

Microbes do various things for plants/plant roots, while plant roots secrete various substances (such as carbohydrates) into the rhizosphere (root exudates) to attract microbes or stimulate those already living there. Some kinds of microbes are also found living on leaf surfaces, not just on\near roots. Some fungi (mycorrhizae) form intimate relationships with plant roots and seek out water and minerals which may not otherwise be available to plants. The fungi can go places that the roots cannot, and fungi have enzymes (e.g. to release ions locked up in larger compounds) plants lack. There are also bacteria\archaea that fix plant available N from the nitrogen gas in the atmosphere (Azotobacter, some Bacillus, et al). These and other microbes are also responsible for producing phytohormones, vitamins, even anti-microbial compounds (this is where modern medicine gets them from). The bacteria which dominate the substrate produce an alkaline bio-slime.

Already more than I wanted to type... but anyways, the thing of it is adapting this to container growing; we're kind of limiting the amount of space the roots have to stretch out and consequently the amount of organic matter/nutrition in the container as a whole. Some people use extra-large containers and then just water or water with blackstrap molasses throughout the entire or majority of grow. That's about as easy as it gets.

Only thing I can say about soil/potting soil and pH is that you cannot underestimate the importance of garden/dolomitic lime, even in a bagged mix like Ocean Forest. Just add a tablespoon per gallon of mix. Micronized dolomitic limestone if available. Oyster shell flour is CaCO3 and only supplies Ca. What this does is neutralize the acidity (hydronium ions) in the mix over a period of weeks\months. If you do this then you do not particularly have to worry about the pH of your fertigation solutions. You might want to re-apply lime after a month or more, or use more initially depending on the circumstances. For example if you don't plant on transplanting for a while, or for a long-flowering Sativa, or if you are using rain/distilled/RO-water with very low dissolved mineral content. If you as using tap water or well water with high TDS and a high pH on it's own, this is probably due to lime dissolved in the water already... therefore you could use less lime in the soil or perhaps not require it at all.

Really though, you can just add in the lime and you should be able to grow in this mix without worrying about pH so much. If you use low-TDS water with it you're going to want to use dolomitic limestone for the Ca and Mg as well. You might also consider something like Azomite, Excelerite or Rare-Earth prior to planting; or a liquid Ca/Mg/Micro nutrient. After a few weeks of using water only or water/blackstrap, keep a close eye on the lower growth and begin light feedings when the the lowest leaves begin to fade.
 
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