expert indoor advice/ opinion needed

My friends and I have been working on an amazing project the past month or so. We have been given the go ahead to use a 2600 sqft warehouse to grow as much as we are capable of growing. Unfortunately, this particular space only has 200 amp service, which does not allow us to max out the entire space.

What we have figured out and built so far, is 2, 12' x 40' boxes that are on alternating flowering light cycles. Each box has 30 8'' air cooled 1000 watt hps's, in 3 rows of 10. Each of the 3 rows join together at a single 12" fan that exhausts directly out of the roof. Each box has 18 20' long pvc ebb and flow pipes that will hold 342 plants.

The issue at hand.......

The ceiling of the box is 8 1/2' high. This, as we have discovered is what we are mainly battling. There isn't enough space up top for the hot air to rise to. With the pipes roughly 2 ft off of the ground our lights have to be maxed out at the top as to not scorch the ladies. We have been running tests this week and we are struggling to dial in at a descent temp. Yesterday, we were able to hold the temp at about 84 85 degrees with 2 13000 btu a/c's blowing with the direction of the airflow. We thought that with the addition of some direct intake and exhaust might be able to drop it some more. Nope, the intake and exhaust rose the temp up into the mid 90's. The box is a wood frame with panda wrap so obviously its not too sealed. 85 degrees is def manageable but its not consistent.

I have tried to give a pretty clear description (as brief as possible) of the set up.

What im looking for is input to the specific situation.
In your opinion should we abort the direct intake and exhaust method and put another a/c in the box? Maybe put the intake/ exhaust on timers?

Or should we nix the a/c's all together and add a lot more intake and exhaust fans and completely embrace a full air exchange method?

The problem we have found with exhausting out of the box and into giant can filters is the ambient temp inside warehouse begins to rise ultimately effecting the temps on the inside of the grow spaces.

We have a HUGE 18" max fan pulling the warehouse air out by the way.

I dont know exactly why I typed all of this stuff out. I guess im just frustrated and asking for a little bit of input. I've done a serious amount of research on the matter and this is certainly not my first rodeo. Thanks everyone who just read all of this by the way. You guys are the best!!!

The picture is from about a week ago...

18 views??? just looking for some ideas!

lol where are you at long beach growing for your club? I cant even imagine the amount of bud that's going to be produced by that system, let alone a few more of them.

It sounds like your trying to cool the whole warehouse which I think will obviously help like you said because it will affect the grow rooms. But why not seal them with plywood... and then line them? that way you could pump cold air from your AC unit(1) instead of using 2 to cool the whole warehouse itself.

HeavilyMedicated said:

lol where are you at long beach growing for your club? I cant even imagine the amount of bud that's going to be produced by that system, let alone a few more of them.

It sounds like your trying to cool the whole warehouse which I think will obviously help like you said because it will affect the grow rooms. But why not seal them with plywood... and then line them? that way you could pump cold air from your AC unit(1) instead of using 2 to cool the whole warehouse itself.

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Each grow space has at least 2 standalone a/c's with the option of a third. The warehouse only has an intake and exhaust fan trying to circulate the ambient air that surrounds the grow boxes. We don't have the budget to set up an industrial a/c unit so thats really our only option.

We really were expecting the aircooled tubes to evacuate the majority of the bulb heat from the entire building... however, the 1000 watters are proving to be far more powerful... at least 30 of them are.

something has to give somewhere...

What if we were to split the airflow into 2 directions facing each other? Put an a/c at each end of the box. Pipe in a low 8" max fan intake at both of these ends as well, and have 2 8" max fans pulling from the top center of the grow box. My thinking here is to shorten the distance the air flow has to travel. Right now we have 2 a/c's at one end trying to reach the complete opposite end, all its really doing is cooling the immediate area and leaving the far end to fend for itself.
?????????? could this be the answer???????? AAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!
thanks

sadly it may come down to taking out some lights to get that heat lower, after all the crop alone will pay for all the hardware.

omensev said:

My friends and I have been working on an amazing project the past month or so. We have been given the go ahead to use a 2600 sqft warehouse to grow as much as we are capable of growing. Unfortunately, this particular space only has 200 amp service, which does not allow us to max out the entire space.

What we have figured out and built so far, is 2, 12' x 40' boxes that are on alternating flowering light cycles. Each box has 30 8'' air cooled 1000 watt hps's, in 3 rows of 10. Each of the 3 rows join together at a single 12" fan that exhausts directly out of the roof. Each box has 18 20' long pvc ebb and flow pipes that will hold 342 plants.

Click to expand...

I'm jealous!

Anyhow, I think the first step in trying to figure a heat issue is finding the weak point in the ventilation:

"Each of the 3 rows join together at a single 12" fan that exhausts directly out of the roof"

So, you have 3 8" ducts merging into a single 12'. Right there you have an airflow reduction of 50%. Your aircooled hoods are less than 50% efficient at this point. That will raise the ambient temperature of your grow area, which will translate into a higher ambient temperature of your warehouse. (ew...you lucky dog)

A clusterfuck.

Try prioritizing the airflow around the hoods. You might even be able to free up some amps that way, because you will be less reliant on the ac's.

That said, airflow is way more important at this scale, keeping in mind that you're also using a tight space.


One more thing: You say you are working with a 200 amp service. Why the limitation? What's keeping you from consulting with a cool electrician to see if you have any open slots in the breaker? Only like 300-400 bucks max for improvements in that realm.

Air-to-Air Heat Exchanger maybe?
http://www.smarthome.com/3033/HE150-Air-to-Air-Heat-Exchanger/p.aspx

Heres how they work...


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Although i havnt used them myself, its just something i have heard about. But props for you bro. And hope you find a solution soon, so you can put all them 1000s to work. do work son. stay up playa

First of all, I think I just came in my pants at your set up!!!!! awesome!!!!

As for heat issues, you are asking 1 x 12" fan to suck along 120' of ducting and 30 1000W lights, i'm surprised it's still turning, I would have keeled over long ago LOL.

Your space is 40x12x8.5=4080x1.5(ducting per foot)=6120. That does not include the value applied to the actual cooltube as weel and there are 30 of them.

You would need to start by getting a seperate fan for each row at the least and perhaps adding fans half way through suspended from the ceiling, also if smell is not an issue passive intakes on the ceiling may help to alleviate the heat.

There was a thread that showed exactly how to work out your extraction requirement based on bends, length of ducting and scrubber etc. but I cant find it now, I know it's on here somewhere, anyone know?

Either way I wish I could do that in my warehouse!!!!

Good luck.

Thanks for the input everyone, just what I've been looking for.

Today I think we are going to see what the 18" fan will do if we hook it up to the 3 light tubes. Do you guys think that individual 8" fans pulling on each tube and then the !8" fan pulling at the end is a consideration, or will the 8's just get in the way of the flow???

Thats one thing we've been trying to figure out. Say we had 3 - 8" fans inline with each tube, would that amplify the airflow or will each fan just maintain the same airflow rate??????

Thanks again everyone!!!!!!!!!

im thinking maybe since u have the big fan on one side of the rows, its sucking more from some lights than the others. are the lights closest to the fan sucking better than the lights farther from the fan? if so, maybe the heat from the far away lights isnt getting sucked out well.

heres what im thinkin:
cut the air ducting in the middle of each row, and cap the ducting off(maybe). on the opposite side of the current 12" fan, put another one, joining all 3 rows together. this way each 12" fan is sucking the air out of 15 lights(3 rows of 5), as opposed to one 12" fan sucking out all 30 lights.

also whats the ambient temp where ur intake is? it may just be that ur intake air is just too warm

Look around for industrial equpiment foreclosure sales. I bet in this market you could get a 12 ton ac for under 5k..that would solve your problem without a doubt.

Or you could make a large scale water-cooled exchange system that you could insert at the most heat prone areas. A combination of these in the right configuration could work as well.
http://www.dtpetsupplies.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=6129

http://www.gothydro.com/ice-box-air-chiller/

people are going to say im nuts....but ive seen this work in large areas.they have these freezers that are really small..dont use a lot of power.how ive seen it done is they take the doors off and set a small high powered fan inside it.if you had 2 of these on each side of the grow room with fans in them...they will drop your temps like a mofo.maybe to the point of not needing to exhaust the hoods anymore...and this place leases them...instead of shelling out tons of money for them to buy them..lease them and return them when your done.http://www.freezerlink.com/benchtop.htmi would set them up on timers tho...or it might get too cold

Yeah you are nuts but it sounds fun if anything, why not, it may just work. And as you said...you have seen it work before....

djruiner said:

people are going to say im nuts....but ive seen this work in large areas.they have these freezers that are really small..dont use a lot of power.how ive seen it done is they take the doors off and set a small high powered fan inside it.if you had 2 of these on each side of the grow room with fans in them...they will drop your temps like a mofo.maybe to the point of not needing to exhaust the hoods anymore...and this place leases them...instead of shelling out tons of money for them to buy them..lease them and return them when your done.http://www.freezerlink.com/benchtop.htmi would set them up on timers tho...or it might get too cold

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i would think an AC would work better

newworldicon said:

Yeah you are nuts but it sounds fun if anything, why not, it may just work. And as you said...you have seen it work before....

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lol

Luger187 said:

i would think an AC would work better



lol

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i agree...ac would work better...but he said he is low on power...and thats a 110v unit

djruiner said:

i agree...ac would work better...but he said he is low on power...and thats a 110v unit

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110v doesnt mean anything. everything that goes into a wall uses 110v.

anyways, since he doesnt have many amps to use, dont u think an AC would work better than a fridge?

Luger187 said:

110v doesnt mean anything. everything that goes into a wall uses 110v.

anyways, since he doesnt have many amps to use, dont u think an AC would work better than a fridge?

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ummm no...you can have 110 and 220...dryers...stoves...all run on 220v.....and he has 2 ac units already....so thought id give an idea other then what he is already using and having not work.ac units are meant to cool an area thats at a somewhat average temp..as in the same temp inside as outside...so it takes less too cool...now if you have 30 1k lights...thats a lot of heat...he could have 20 ac units and still not get it cool enough...not without having a small power plant running the place

If he did not box the whole thing in he would not have this problem now, he got total access to the warehouse, should have just done the grow without walls and a roof me thinks....rip it down and be free!!!!

djruiner said:

ummm no...you can have 110 and 220...dryers...stoves...all run on 220v.....and he has 2 ac units already....so thought id give an idea other then what he is already using and having not work.ac units are meant to cool an area thats at a somewhat average temp..as in the same temp inside as outside...so it takes less too cool...now if you have 30 1k lights...thats a lot of heat...he could have 20 ac units and still not get it cool enough...not without having a small power plant running the place

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so how would a fridge work in this situation? theyre made to cool a small volume

Luger187 said:

so how would a fridge work in this situation? theyre made to cool a small volume

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these are not really fridges...these are lab/specimen type freezer systems.they get to -45 to -86c...no fridge can do that.2 of those with small fans inside them...blowing from each side of the room COULD work..thats without using all the power a few ac units would be using.just an idea