DIY 250w HPS ballast not lighting

I really need your expertise here guys.

I bought this ballast (250 Watt High Pressure Sodium Ballast - 120, 208, 240 & 277 Volt - Sola # E-971-W-SO250 Light Bulb) and bulb (250 Watt - High Pressure Sodium - 2100K - Clear - LU250/ECO - Sylvania #67578 Light Bulb) about a month ago. I was going to use them for a grow cabinet I was building.

I am no electrical expert so a friend of mine with some experience offered to help out. Today, we got everything set up and plugged it in with no result. I quickly unplugged and replugged it and the light lit! Now I am setting it up in the completed cab, but I cannot get it to light. The ballast hums and the bulb shines a slight blue.

Anyone have any ideas what the heck the problem is? As fas as I know, nothing significant has happened to the ballast. What would cause the bulb to only turn blue, but not light up?

Thanks in advance!

the bulb sounds like its shagged, these are highly engineered, highly pressurised bits of kit!!!

[email protected] said:

the bulb sounds like its shagged, these are highly engineered, highly pressurised bits of kit!!!

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Either that, or you have a bad connection with one or more wires. All my lights are converted commercial fixtures. Home Depot has the 250w bulbs, I'm not sure how much, the 400w bulbs are less than $20 (US)

So I've been reading up to see if anyone else had a problem like mine. I couldn't find anything specific, but in one thread a guy mentioned that a DIY couldn't be fired up beyond 3 - 5 ft depending on cable size. I can't test it yet as I stupidly positioned it where I need two people to take it down, but can anyone else vouch for this? Thanks.

At the risk of sounding condescending, Are you expecting the bulb to light up full tilt immediately?HID lights take a good 5 or more minutes to get to full brilliance. If I have to unplug my HPS for whatever reason (For pics), sometimes the bulb takes a few minutes to come back on when I plug them in.
I'm sure you probably knew that, just covering all bases here.

TLP

the lastpirate; Not at all friend! I am looking for any help I can get. I'm sure the problem lies in my ignorance of HID lighting.When I first plugged it in and I saw nothing, I was also thought it was warming up. I let it warm up for 15 - 20 minutes. Still nothing. If I look at the bulb the core is glowing just the faintest of blue. I jumped on Google and did a search. A guide online said that the bulb should turn on immediately. I still haven't been able to test the light, because the cabinet is heavy as fuck and my housemate is out of town.

Thanks for the help guys! I'll update as soon as I can test it.

250w lights here in the states are 40$ anywhere Ive been.. and never seen them at home depot, besides get an agro grade light its spectrum specific. and as for your ballast, haven't you got a grow shop you can take it to and get it tested?

xochi said:

250w lights here in the states are 40$ anywhere Ive been.. and never seen them at home depot, besides get an agro grade light its spectrum specific. and as for your ballast, haven't you got a grow shop you can take it to and get it tested?

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I don't understand exactly what you mean.

Are you saying that a real agro grade light should cost $40? I asked a guy @ a local hydro shop and he said that with a bulb this wattage it wouldn't really matter.

Also, I do have a local hydro store, but it's Labor Day weekend so it's closed. I did get a friend to come over and help with re-positioning the ballast, so I will report back later.

BTW, you've got a really nice avatar.

Peace.

xochi said:

250w lights here in the states are 40$ anywhere Ive been.. and never seen them at home depot, besides get an agro grade light its spectrum specific. and as for your ballast, haven't you got a grow shop you can take it to and get it tested?

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I was at home depot Today they had 100-250, and even 400w MH from $12-$36 (36 for the 400). and 70, 150, and 250 HPS around the same price.
I think the commercial grade will be fine, sure the agro might get you alittle more bang for your buck. but both work. Just buy a cheep light then return it, that will narrow down the problem.

xochi said:

250w lights here in the states are 40$ anywhere Ive been.. and never seen them at home depot, besides get an agro grade light its spectrum specific. and as for your ballast, haven't you got a grow shop you can take it to and get it tested?

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Lowes:






Home Depot:





Now granted, Home Depot has gone up. 2 months ago, they were ther same price as Lowes.
As for the "Agro Grade" bulb, sorry, but light is light. 50,000 lumens at 5600 deg K is the same light, no matter which bulb you use. The only appreciable difference in bulbs is the so-called "conversion" bulbs. They are an HPS bulb with an added element to give more light in the blue spectrum as well. I personally have found that the loss of light/lumens do not offset the benefits. There are some that supposedly do not lose light (SonAgro 430w, GE Chroma-fit). I can't say about them 'cuz I've never used one, only the Ushio I got.
Back to the thread subject.
I don't condone this, it's totally up to you, but Home depot and Lowes will BOTH take back about anything, no questions. If it's a Phillips or Sylvania, go buy one then return the bad one. Buying one will also answer the question of whether or not it's the ballast.

Remember, Kharma will bite your ass when you aint looking!


Just a thought,

TLP

do you really want to buy a bulb that is infierior? its all you man, i find if you spend the extra bucks for agro grade products you see more out of them. don't cheat your plants, because you cheat yourself. i know what i'm talking about just because i now joined a forum doesn't mean i dont have several grows under my belt.

dR. HerbLove said:

So I've been reading up to see if anyone else had a problem like mine. I couldn't find anything specific, but in one thread a guy mentioned that a DIY couldn't be fired up beyond 3 - 5 ft depending on cable size. I can't test it yet as I stupidly positioned it where I need two people to take it down, but can anyone else vouch for this? Thanks.

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I have 20' of wire between the ballasts and my bulbs, no problem. 2 have 16 ga, and the rest have 14 ga. Now mine are all 400w, 250w MIGHT be different, but I doubt it. Your problem is either the bulb, or the ballast, and I'm betting it's the bulb. ballasts are really pretty simple, they can take alot of abuse, and generally do not "Just go out". Did you jar the bulb in any way? HID bulbs are made pretty stout, but it IS still a bulb after all and alot more fragile than a ballast. However, I used one of my MH lamps that came with my lights for vegging (9 weeks), and when I went to remove the bulb, the base was separated from the bulb, and the base stayed in the socket. Had to be that way during vegging, but the bulb still worked. Go Figger!!!
You MIGHT have a bad capacitor or igniter/striker. They should be fairly cheap at an electronics supply store. A cap can go out in an instant. I just now thought about this.

dR. HerbLove said:

I don't understand exactly what you mean.

Are you saying that a real agro grade light should cost $40? I asked a guy @ a local hydro shop and he said that with a bulb this wattage it wouldn't really matter.

Also, I do have a local hydro store, but it's Labor Day weekend so it's closed. I did get a friend to come over and help with re-positioning the ballast, so I will report back later.

BTW, you've got a really nice avatar.

Peace.

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that sucks, we have one that stays open on weekends and hollidays.. things break down everyday right? you can see my dreds better in my profile pic.

xochi said:

do you really want to buy a bulb that is infierior? its all you man, i find if you spend the extra bucks for agro grade products you see more out of them. don't cheat your plants, because you cheat yourself. i know what i'm talking about just because i now joined a forum doesn't mean i dont have several grows under my belt.

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I certainly am not trying to say that you don't know what you're talking about. I am on MY FIRST grow. So you probably got me beat by at least a couple grows. But as someone who deals with light, intensity and color temperature on a daily basis, I can assure you that no matter where it comes from, a given color spectrum is what it is. I can take a 2800 deg K incandescent light, and thru the use of color correction filters, change it to any spectral range I wish. I take 2800 deg K and filter it to 5500 deg K daily. (shooting daylight film under incandescent lights) Intensity (lumen output) would be a function of the type bulb (HID)
Alot of saavy folks buy into the marketing hype that something is "better", because some marketing guy put a "label" on it. I can go buy a stainless steel pulley for, say $20. But go buy that same pulley at a marine supply store, and you'll pay about double for it because it's now a "marine" pulley. Anyone who has a boat can vouch for this.
Thats why the advertising/marketing industry is what it is. JQP will believe about anything if it's presented right.
Case in point. There was a thread on here about someone who bought a particular "flowering hormone/nute" from a well known mfgr/supplier, only to discover that it was primarily molasses. Yet it was hyped as the cure all flowering nutrient, and alot of people will buy it.
There are only so many actual manufacturers of bulbs. Many others buy them and slap thier name and description on them.


BTW, I HOPE thats not you in the avatar. I thought I was being wreckless by putting my approx location in my proflie, and using my dogs pic as an avatar.

its a pic from about 8 years ago, when i was living in pr. don't think its too wreckless if you've got dual citezenship.

DaKine said:

I was at home depot Today they had 100-250, and even 400w MH from $12-$36 (36 for the 400). and 70, 150, and 250 HPS around the same price.
I think the commercial grade will be fine, sure the agro might get you alittle more bang for your buck. but both work. Just buy a cheep light then return it, that will narrow down the problem.

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I was thinking about getting a replacement bulb, but I'm now sure that this bulb is functioning.

I did not think that Home Depot carried any HPS over 70w. I have checked at several different ones in my area and none of them had any. I'm glad I have Lowe's at least for on-hand bulb supply.

Peace.

TLP; Bro, +karma for the pix.

I have fiddled around with the ballast and here are the results:

1. Separated and relocated the ballast wire length 3 ft from the lamp and 3 ft from the outlet: nil
2. Extended the lamp to ballast @ 5 ft and ballast to wall @ 1 ft: nil
3. Separated from the lamp/reflector from ballast (replaced with a jimmy-rigged outlet to medium socket to medium>mogul adapter, 7 inch wire length from the ballast) and moved to the outlet that originally worked: 0

Took a brake to scratch my head and have a bowl. Did some more RIU searching and found a thread about a guy asking about DIY ballasts. Apparently this guy's ignitors had a label on them that warned of a 2 ft maximum distance. The proverbial light bulb lit in my head: That must be the problem! Another bowl. Checked the distance between the ignitor and the lamp which was well within 2 ft, but there was 1 erroneous wirenut connection for a wire extension. Bowl.

4. Replaced 2 wire extensions connected with a wirenut with a longer cable : BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAH!!!
5. Extended the outlet to ballast wire length to 3 ft: LIT
6. Plugged in the ballast through a 5 ft extension cord: LIT
7. Repositioned the ballast back onto the cabinet and re-attached to lamp/reflector: nothing
8. Noticed the lamps wires were shredded, so re-spliced and crossed fingers: nil

WTF. What has changed? The wire length from the lamp to the ignitor has increased about 6 inches. Would that make a big difference? The total distance is only about 14 inches. The physical distance between the ballast and socket has changed since working, but not the wire length. While working the ballast was physically only about 3 ft away from the outlet, but on my cab it's about 6 ft. One other change is the switch back to the lamp/reflector from the outlet>medium>mogul socket I tested with. I really doubt that a lamp socket goes bad. I ran out of time to keep working on it, but I will continue today. Will try to update later. Thanks for all the help.

xochi said:

that sucks, we have one that stays open on weekends and hollidays.. things break down everyday right? you can see my dreds better in my profile pic.

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I didn't even realize that they were dreds, but I don't see any other picture. Wow, you joined and on your first day you had 41 post? That is quite a lot of posts. I'm glad you're someone with experience who's willing to share it!

Dude, you got me fucked up! It HAS GOT to be something simple. Something we aint seeingHere is a pic of one of my lights. The power supply cord is 6', the ballast housing has the cap, and ignitor in it, and there is 20' of cord between the ballast and the reflector. I used wire nuts, same as you. I'm stumped. Could you be pinching the wire somehow when you install it in the cabinet?

is there a tab inside at the bottom of your mogul socket? there shouldnt be if its pulse rated. but sometimes mogul sockets have a small tab in the center that can become compressed. sometimes sockets fail. even some of the 5kv pulse rated sockets with the raised ceramic center tap. sometimes they come loose and you might not get enough voltage through to ignite.