Could Legalizing Marijuana Help the Economy

Ranken · Mar 1, 2009

Could Legalizing Marijuana Help the Economy?

February 28, 2009 02:28 PM ET | Paul Bedard, Alex Kingsbury
By Alex Kingsbury
FDR spent his first few days in office fixing the banks, and then he legalized beer. President Obama has buoyed the banks; what about legalizing marijuana? asks Keith Stroup, the attorney who founded the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws in 1970. For decades, Stroup has argued that legalizing pot would produce mega tax windfalls, and now, officials of states zonked out by the fiscal crisisTexas, Tennessee, Massachusetts, and Pennsylvaniaare asking Stroup for the 411 on ganja green. "As smokers," he adds, "we're raising our hands and saying: 'Tax us!' "

Pirate420 · Mar 1, 2009

CA is considering it for that very reason. Cali is also the 3rd largest economy so I would think yes it could. But... hopefully people wouldn't be stupid and slow production because of it. just my 2 cents

Kant · Mar 1, 2009

well if you think about it, would it actually help the economy?

I mean there's the much tutted positives of taxes and billions going to farmers and local shops rather then drug cartels and gangs which is good but consider the other side.

law enforcement agencies both federal and state level would lose billions in funding and that will translate into jobs. Then there's the possible pharma fall, that could mean millions or even billions lost again will translate into jobs lost. Then there's the privatized prison system. less inmates means less guards and possibly less facilities, again more job loss. Then think about all the drug testing. that's a multi billion dollar a year business. that would drop like a rock. again that would lead to even more jobs lost. That doesn't mention the reduced need for lawyers both prosecutors and defenders, and judges and other less recognized jobs that depend on the business of prohibition.

so would the potential gain out weight the loss? i'm not sure.

110100100 · Mar 3, 2009

Kant said:
well if you think about it, would it actually help the economy?

I mean there's the much tutted positives of taxes and billions going to farmers and local shops rather then drug cartels and gangs which is good but consider the other side.

law enforcement agencies both federal and state level would lose billions in funding and that will translate into jobs. Then there's the possible pharma fall, that could mean millions or even billions lost again will translate into jobs lost. Then there's the privatized prison system. less inmates means less guards and possibly less facilities, again more job loss. Then think about all the drug testing. that's a multi billion dollar a year business. that would drop like a rock. again that would lead to even more jobs lost. That doesn't mention the reduced need for lawyers both prosecutors and defenders, and judges and other less recognized jobs that depend on the business of prohibition.

so would the potential gain out weight the loss? i'm not sure.

Bullshit...

First off there is plenty of REAL crime to go around that could more than keep police busy if they were not focused on busting pot smokers. Sure they wouldn't seize as much property but oh well, let them start seizing property from real criminals for a change.

There are also plenty of cases to be litigated so I wouldn't go crying for the lawyers either. They also create their own mess. There have been more students in law school then there are lawyers for years now. The only thing that might change in the legal system is that people get the "speedy trial" they have a right to but don't get now.

Prisons...fuck em I couldn't care less. Maybe now they'd stop parole/early release of murders and child molesters so they can make room for mandatory minimum sentenced pot offenders. No they would not suffer at all either, they would just change the way they do business now.

Drug testing? Are you serious? I suppose you've never heard of cocaine or heroin or oxycontin or...they wouldn't miss a beat. Again maybe they lose a little business but not to the extent you claim.

It's not just billions that would go into the economy of legitimate businesses dude, it's over 100 billion a year. It could generate over 30 billion a year in taxes and those numbers are from smokable pot alone. That does not take into account any of the support industries that would benefit or any of the other industries that would be allowed to function because of legalization. Hemp and all it's uses would generate billions more.

I'm sure some people somewhere would lose their job due to the end of prohibition but I seriously doubt it would be enough to be noticeable on the economy.

Matter of fact http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/endorsers.html there you go...over 500 economists who believe we should legalize, three of whom are Nobel Laureates. Do you really think they would support a change that would be the drain on the economy you suggest?

pharlow · Mar 3, 2009

agree with the 1s and 0s guy think about it there are so many other things they would do ..... for example before 911 a large focus of the american justice system was relatively spread throughout the different crimes in the us..... after the fact it was all about terrorism... and in my opinion and i stress my opinion when they found out they didnt know what or who to blame almost every crime was terrorist funding or terror related think about it

Kant · Mar 3, 2009

110100100 said:
Bullshit...

First off there is plenty of REAL crime to go around that could more than keep police busy if they were not focused on busting pot smokers. Sure they wouldn't seize as much property but oh well, let them start seizing property from real criminals for a change.

There are also plenty of cases to be litigated so I wouldn't go crying for the lawyers either. They also create their own mess. There have been more students in law school then there are lawyers for years now. The only thing that might change in the legal system is that people get the "speedy trial" they have a right to but don't get now.

Prisons...fuck em I couldn't care less. Maybe now they'd stop parole/early release of murders and child molesters so they can make room for mandatory minimum sentenced pot offenders. No they would not suffer at all either, they would just change the way they do business now.

Drug testing? Are you serious? I suppose you've never heard of cocaine or heroin or oxycontin or...they wouldn't miss a beat. Again maybe they lose a little business but not to the extent you claim.

It's not just billions that would go into the economy of legitimate businesses dude, it's over 100 billion a year. It could generate over 30 billion a year in taxes and those numbers are from smokable pot alone. That does not take into account any of the support industries that would benefit or any of the other industries that would be allowed to function because of legalization. Hemp and all it's uses would generate billions more.

I'm sure some people somewhere would lose their job due to the end of prohibition but I seriously doubt it would be enough to be noticeable on the economy.

Matter of fact http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/endorsers.html there you go...over 500 economists who believe we should legalize, three of whom are Nobel Laureates. Do you really think they would support a change that would be the drain on the economy you suggest?

There's plenty of real crime that cops could go after instead of pot, I agree with you there. The problem is from a public finance perspective the amount of these crimes don't justify the huge expenditures that pot brings to the table.

Private prisons are business. Empty cells = lost money. So if that means they have to close a few prisons to keep the remaining ones packed that's what they'll do. which in turn means that people will still be released on early parole.

oxycotin, heroin, opiates in general don't stick around in your system for more than a couple of days so testing for it at any point beyond a week is pointless and therefore not profitable. There will still be a market for those tests but they are dwarfed by the market for thc tests.

Yes, billions will be saved in tax payer's money and billions will be pumped into local shops and company X.

What i'm saying is that the economic boost from legalizing won't be anywhere near the level that people are claiming. anyway this is just food for thought.

smokinmayne · Mar 3, 2009

it will help CA because they are having to pay their teachers with IOU;s. the state is broke

dhhbomb · Mar 3, 2009

seriously cant even get our income taxes when we suppose to and who know is they will have the money they should to give back to us let alone the fact we borrowing 12 billion dollars raising taxes by 1 % supposably temperay and we have the highest sales tax in the contry in additon to the fact our paychecks are taxed by the state and with all these tax our schools are in last for funding in the county bull shit legalize shit and kill all the corrupt dirty polltians die aronld fucked pieace of shit never had any buissness being govenor

vgavno · Mar 5, 2009

Kant said:
well if you think about it, would it actually help the economy?

I mean there's the much tutted positives of taxes and billions going to farmers and local shops rather then drug cartels and gangs which is good but consider the other side.

law enforcement agencies both federal and state level would lose billions in funding and that will translate into jobs. Then there's the possible pharma fall, that could mean millions or even billions lost again will translate into jobs lost. Then there's the privatized prison system. less inmates means less guards and possibly less facilities, again more job loss. Then think about all the drug testing. that's a multi billion dollar a year business. that would drop like a rock. again that would lead to even more jobs lost. That doesn't mention the reduced need for lawyers both prosecutors and defenders, and judges and other less recognized jobs that depend on the business of prohibition.

so would the potential gain out weight the loss? i'm not sure.

Right on my friend

I think nothing can help the economy. Well maybe if Africa start developing. This might tho http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPUjR5AReBU

Kant · Mar 5, 2009

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TemporarySaint · Mar 5, 2009

Kant said:
There's plenty of real crime that cops could go after instead of pot, I agree with you there. The problem is from a public finance perspective the amount of these crimes don't justify the huge expenditures that pot brings to the table.

Private prisons are business. Empty cells = lost money. So if that means they have to close a few prisons to keep the remaining ones packed that's what they'll do. which in turn means that people will still be released on early parole.

oxycotin, heroin, opiates in general don't stick around in your system for more than a couple of days so testing for it at any point beyond a week is pointless and therefore not profitable. There will still be a market for those tests but they are dwarfed by the market for thc tests.

Yes, billions will be saved in tax payer's money and billions will be pumped into local shops and company X.

What i'm saying is that the economic boost from legalizing won't be anywhere near the level that people are claiming. anyway this is just food for thought.

Wow!!! These are some crazy claims. Your first statement alone has me completely baffled. All the other crimes combined "do not justify the huge expenditures pot brings to the table." Really? Murder, robbery, assault, rape, embezzelment, extortion, real drug dealing and the violence that goes with it and on and on and on. These must be less harmful than weed and by your rationale less worthy of funding? Ludicrous.

"Private prisons are a business.Empty cells = lost money." Again this is nuts. The prison system is a business, that much is true, but it is far from falling on hard times. Check this out about Californias prison OVERCROWDING. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/us/11prisons.html

I guess in closing you were saying that while yes legalization "will pump billions into local shops and company x" that it is not worth it because it will not be as great as people think?

I think you're nuts. Why don't you tell us why you really don't want it legalized.

P.S. Just read a story about a prison scandal involving judges sending kids to a detention facility in return for kick-backs from the "Prison Management Co." that ran the facility. The judges took in over $1M. Lots of kids did time who shouldn't have. Still feelin' bad for them?

Kant · Mar 5, 2009

TemporarySaint said:
Wow!!! These are some crazy claims. Your first statement alone has me completely baffled. All the other crimes combined "do not justify the huge expenditures pot brings to the table." Really? Murder, robbery, assault, rape, embezzelment, extortion, real drug dealing and the violence that goes with it and on and on and on. These must be less harmful than weed and by your rationale less worthy of funding? Ludicrous.

What I said is that the amount spend on all crimes combined (including cannabis related crimes) = budget X. That budget X is more than is necessary for all crimes (minus cannabis related crimes). Why don't we invest $100bn investigating murder? the reason is because that's not reasonable. You make it sound like we're not investing money in these other crimes and the money they do get are leftover scraps from the drug war funds. The fact is they have their budgets it's not going to disappear. do these budgets need adjustments? maybe but do they need an additional $30b? no.

TemporarySaint said:
"Private prisons are a business.Empty cells = lost money." Again this is nuts. The prison system is a business, that much is true, but it is far from falling on hard times. Check this out about Californias prison OVERCROWDING. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/us/11prisons.html

Do you wonder why they're overcrowding? Now lets assume for the moment that everyone currently in jail will remain there regardless of drug law changes. If cannabis is legalized 800k people will no longer be arrested yearly. gangs, having lost their bread and butter, will be crippled. Now i'm not saying they'll disappear. I doubt they'll ever disappear. But they won't have the same bankroll to fight their wars with other gangs. thus further reducing crime rates. That overcrowding problem we have right now won't be one for long after the laws change.

TemporarySaint said:
I guess in closing you were saying that while yes legalization "will pump billions into local shops and company x" that it is not worth it because it will not be as great as people think?

I think you're nuts. Why don't you tell us why you really don't want it legalized.

P.S. Just read a story about a prison scandal involving judges sending kids to a detention facility in return for kick-backs from the "Prison Management Co." that ran the facility. The judges took in over $1M. Lots of kids did time who shouldn't have. Still feelin' bad for them?

I think that legalization should still take place. This prohibition economy that has grown is probably the most devastating thing that could happen to this country. My conclusion was not that legalization would have a negative effect on our economy but rather it won't have the massive boom that people are proclaiming. I think yes it probably will have a net positive effect money-wise but my question is, how much?

btw. privatized prisons are probably one of the worst things we as a country could possibly endorse.

TemporarySaint · Mar 6, 2009

Okay Kant, You've got me totally perplexed right now. You say that I "make it sound like we're not investing money in all these other crimes," but I said nothing of the sort. It was you who said that all these other crimes "do not justify the huge expenditures that pot brings to the table." I don't know how to take that other than, I guess, it's your opinion that marijuana is the number crime issue facing the nation today. Sounds crazy.

Next you talk about diminishing gang revenues and the reduction in gang violence that would bring. My problem here is that you sound like that would be a bad thing. Where I come from less violence would be considered a good thing. From here you move on to the overcrowding problem in our prisons. Again it sounds as if you believe that less crowded prisons would be a bad thing. I know you're going to say that that will lead to job loss but that's just not the case. We have more than enough crime and criminals to keep our jails and prisons packed from here to eternity.

So in closing I propose that not only will legalizing marijuana NOT cause job loss it would actually lead to job creation. With legalization will come massive tax revenue and with this revenue will come more jobs. More jobs for cops, more jobs for firemen, more jobs for county workers and so on and so on. Add this revenue to the savings from no longer having to enforce prohibition and you're talking about a lot of money.

So please, if you can, try to explain to me how this won't benefit our collapsing economy, even if it's not, as you say, as "massive" as everyone says. I, for one, belive that you Kant. Time for a bong hit. bongsmilie

merahoon · Mar 6, 2009

I'm on temporarysaints side. Kant, the things you said are bogus. I mean come on!!! Do you really think that way? The first thing that blew my mind is why not want to get all those people out of the prison that didn't do anything wrong. We're spending our tax dollars to hold them there. I'd rather use my money on replacing them with all the really fucked up people out there raping, killing and so forth. If they spent less time worrying about the people the sell and smoke pot, that could be cracking down on the real bad people. The guards wont loose their jobs because the marijuana offenders will just be replaced with some sicko. I think that they should legalize the use of hemp and what not as well though because that could add to our economy in incredible ways. Hemp can be used for so many different things but we don't allow it cause were idiots and would rather buy things from other countries instead of creating our own resources.

Kant · Mar 6, 2009

I'm not saying that reducing crime and ridiculous spending is a bad thing. it's not. i'm simply saying that the business behind prohibition is a big one. and once prohibition ends there will be economic changes both for the better and for the worse.

merahoon · Mar 7, 2009

True... but I think it would lean more so towards the good than the bad. Its just like technology. The more we improve things, the less people we'll need for certain jobs. We're not going to tell our inventors to stop inventing though because we're loosing jobs. Everything has its pros and its cons. In this situation I think the pros outweigh the cons.

TemporarySaint · Mar 7, 2009

Kant said:
I'm not saying that reducing crime and ridiculous spending is a bad thing. it's not. i'm simply saying that the business behind prohibition is a big one. and once prohibition ends there will be economic changes both for the better and for the worse.

merahoon said:
True... but I think it would lean more so towards the good than the bad. Its just like technology. The more we improve things, the less people we'll need for certain jobs. We're not going to tell our inventors to stop inventing though because we're loosing jobs. Everything has its pros and its cons. In this situation I think the pros outweigh the cons.

I think you guys are missing the boat here. Economic changes will be for the better. Legalization will CREATE more jobs than are lost.

Kant · Mar 7, 2009

I suppose that my other point was that before the new economy emerges, no matter how much better it may be, the old one has to die first. Which means there's going to be a rough transition. Basically because everything that we need to support the new economy has to be build from the ground up.

the reason that we didn't really experience that with alcohol is because all of the pieces of the industry were already in place and had been before prohibition started.

TemporarySaint · Mar 7, 2009

Kant said:
I suppose that my other point was that before the new economy emerges, no matter how much better it may be, the old one has to die first. Which means there's going to be a rough transition.

"The old one has to die first." Are you serious? Take a look around, if this economy isn't dead already then it's hanging by a thread. And I'm not just talking about the black-market drug economy and all the legal institutions that go with it. I'm talking Global Economy here. Legalization would be an asset to global recovery.

You go on to say, "everything that we need to support the new economy has to be built from the ground up," like it's going to be so difficult. For starters it's not a new economy that we're talking about anyway. What we're talking about is the Legalization of Drugs or at least Marijuana. It would create a new industry, yes, but not a new economy. This new industry would have an enormous profit potential which leads me to believe that the transition from a black market to a legitimate market would be an easy one.

Lastly let me back up what I said about Legalization creating new jobs. TWO WORDS: REGULATION and TREATMENT.

Check out this article:
http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=13237193

420DrGreenthumb · Mar 8, 2009

It can be taxed if you regulate it right, treat it like medicinal marijuana and if you don't have a card or license to purchase or smoke you can be fined. Also only allow it for people who are working more than 20-30 hours a week. Then you can just tax their yearly wage according to how much they smoke. it would stop some seedy drug dealers im sure. If it won't be legal at least we can hope for decriminalising it.. there is no fucking point going to jail (on tax payers money) and bunking up next to a rapist or a murderer for smoking or growing a weed. Helping the economy in many ways, the money spent to put these 'criminals' of pot away could be spent a little more wisely

Could Legalizing Marijuana Help the Economy

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