Clunkers To Cash

N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
So everyone has heard of the super successful "Clunkers to Cash' program right? Its where they take your older vehicles and give you a $4500 credit towards a brand new car. Sounds pretty good right? Who wouldn't like someone else to pay for a good chunk of a new car?

Here's the thing though, These people are taking a completely paid off vehicle, that runs and could probably run longer if maintained and they are trading it for a 4-6 year loan and all those payments. Sounds like more debt to me, and most people should know that you do not take on more debt when you don't know if you will have a job tomorrow or not. Unemployment just keeps getting worse and worse in this country. Wow some people are just dumb, I mean sure its probably great for someone who has the cash to pay the balance, but for most people they cannot afford 25 grand or so to buy a decent new car now a days. I just don't get it, I thought we had more fiscally responsible people in this country. The program is so successful that they ran out of money in a week and have already appropriated more. Where do people think the money to pay for cars comes from? Trees? China? It comes from taxes, this program is only going to make things worse in the long run economically. the estimated yearly saving in Gasoline by switching to more fuel efficient newer cars is 72 million gallons. Sounds like a lot of gasoline doesn't it? Would you be surprised to know that the USA alone uses that much Gasoline in 4 hours? Its true. Assume one 42 gallon barrel of oil makes about 30 gallons of refined petrol. http://www.eia.doe.gov/basics/quickoil.html

Wow those billions and billions of dollars aren't doing much if over a whole years time it only saves 4 hours worth of fuel. And the American Tax Payer is footing the bill in 2 ways, taxes/inflation and of course the cost of servicing the new loan. Not Smart America!!
 
jrh72582

jrh72582

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
So everyone has heard of the super successful "Clunkers to Cash' program right? Its where they take your older vehicles and give you a $4500 credit towards a brand new car. Sounds pretty good right? Who wouldn't like someone else to pay for a good chunk of a new car?

Here's the thing though, These people are taking a completely paid off vehicle, that runs and could probably run longer if maintained and they are trading it for a 4-6 year loan and all those payments. Sounds like more debt to me, and most people should know that you do not take on more debt when you don't know if you will have a job tomorrow or not. Unemployment just keeps getting worse and worse in this country. Wow some people are just dumb, I mean sure its probably great for someone who has the cash to pay the balance, but for most people they cannot afford 25 grand or so to buy a decent new car now a days. I just don't get it, I thought we had more fiscally responsible people in this country. The program is so successful that they ran out of money in a week and have already appropriated more. Where do people think the money to pay for cars comes from? Trees? China? It comes from taxes, this program is only going to make things worse in the long run economically. the estimated yearly saving in Gasoline by switching to more fuel efficient newer cars is 72 million gallons. Sounds like a lot of gasoline doesn't it? Would you be surprised to know that the USA alone uses that much Gasoline in 4 hours? Its true. Assume one 42 gallon barrel of oil makes about 30 gallons of refined petrol. http://www.eia.doe.gov/basics/quickoil.html

Wow those billions and billions of dollars aren't doing much if over a whole years time it only saves 4 hours worth of fuel. And the American Tax Payer is footing the bill in 2 ways, taxes/inflation and of course the cost of servicing the new loan. Not Smart America!!
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Well-written. I agree wholeheartedly. It's much more efficient to run a vehicle for as long as possible rather than trading in for something with better mileage. I don't understand what people are thinking - it seems predatory ta boot.
 
hippiepudz024

hippiepudz024

Well-Known Member
i like the way u word your thoughts, you have could write 4 a professional journal company or something like that, but yeah, the cash 4 clunkers seems to be already out of money from what i heard
 
GrowTech

GrowTech

stays relevant.
Not everyone who is buying cars is a financial nitwit... On the contrary, I purchased a new car a week or two ago (not through the CARS program), and while the economy does concern me, its just not bad enough to not purchase a car.

I'm paying $300 a month for this car, and I'm not even employed :lol:

:)
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
GrowTech said:
Not everyone who is buying cars is a financial nitwit... On the contrary, I purchased a new car a week or two ago (not through the CARS program), and while the economy does concern me, its just not bad enough to not purchase a car.

I'm paying $300 a month for this car, and I'm not even employed :lol:

:)
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Well if your not employed and you can make the payments easy enough then go for it, but what would happen if your alternate cash source dried up?
 
nick the sick maniac

nick the sick maniac

Well-Known Member
do they give you $4500 or UP TO $4500 for every car? if they give you the full 4500 each time then i bet you could scam the government good by just buying a lot of shitty cars for like 500 bucks and get the credit and just keep doing this till you can buy a new better efficient car for very cheap.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
More effecient cars = good. Government meddling in business and increased debt = bad.

The Japanese cars seem to be selling the best.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
There is another side to this that gets ignored.

I am about to buy a new car, or trade in my lease, so I scan the paper real fast and find someone selling a car for a couple hundred. I go buy it and take it to be traded in.

That puts a few hundred in the hands of the person selling the junker.
I buy the car from the dealership that has been there for the last year helping with the crazy overstock, this puts money into the dealership (salesperson, accountant, service people, taxes, rent, other businesses that depend on those people having money).
Then they destroy the motor so the junkers get paid to tow it and at the junkyard they strip the usable parts and scrap metal can be used.

And here I am with a new car that I was going to buy anyway (how many people you think are buying a new car with this that was not going to buy one), with everyone else in the chain getting some money in their pockets creating a stimulus package.

And also taking a ton of old cars with oil leaks and all out of the economy. This will benefit anyone trying to sell a used car. Anyone needing to get used parts will benefit from the extra stock that will come from this. Refurbished metal companies will benefit from the uptick in material. On and on.

And anyone that has ever made a "Where is my bailout?" joke can benefit from this if they need a new car.


And the reason that it ran out in a week is due to how good it worked, thinking anything else is silly. They put up 2billion. And the estimates were that it could take up to 2 months to be used up. But the demand for it was so great that it ended up being used in one week. That is highly successful.

If you were selling weed, and figured that it would take you 2 months to sell through all your stash, but instead you unloaded it in one week would you be bummed that you didn't take the entire 2 months?
 
S

SlikWiLL13

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
There is another side to this that gets ignored.

I am about to buy a new car, or trade in my lease, so I scan the paper real fast and find someone selling a car for a couple hundred. I go buy it and take it to be traded in.

That puts a few hundred in the hands of the person selling the junker.
I buy the car from the dealership that has been there for the last year helping with the crazy overstock, this puts money into the dealership (salesperson, accountant, service people, taxes, rent, other businesses that depend on those people having money).
Then they destroy the motor so the junkers get paid to tow it and at the junkyard they strip the usable parts and scrap metal can be used.

And here I am with a new car that I was going to buy anyway (how many people you think are buying a new car with this that was not going to buy one), with everyone else in the chain getting some money in their pockets creating a stimulus package.

And also taking a ton of old cars with oil leaks and all out of the economy. This will benefit anyone trying to sell a used car. Anyone needing to get used parts will benefit from the extra stock that will come from this. Refurbished metal companies will benefit from the uptick in material. On and on.

And anyone that has ever made a "Where is my bailout?" joke can benefit from this if they need a new car.


And the reason that it ran out in a week is due to how good it worked, thinking anything else is silly. They put up 2billion. And the estimates were that it could take up to 2 months to be used up. But the demand for it was so great that it ended up being used in one week. That is highly successful.

If you were selling weed, and figured that it would take you 2 months to sell through all your stash, but instead you unloaded it in one week would you be bummed that you didn't take the entire 2 months?
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but all the people that are going to see income trickling down to them have already given that money tenfold in taxes.

and comparing selling weed with giving away money is just plain stupid.
 
cph

cph

Well-Known Member
Just some thoughts I have about the thing...

They did this last year in Germany. Just like here it was a huge success. Now this year nobody is buying any cars. The new and used car market dried up because everybody had new ones. The government owned all those cars and scrapped them. The scrap metal market has since hit the floor, with scrap prices at an all time low.

I'm not sure of all the details but is that what we will be looking at in 1 year?
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Total Income for US (GDP) in 2008: 14Trillion. So 2 billion as a percentage is about .0000142%

So if you make $50,000 you pay about 71 cents towards this. So I really don't see how this is 10x the taxes you benefit from this. You could say that anyone not taking advantage of this and is totally removed from the auto chain (1/6 people in america are affected by it) have 100% of the money they paid towards this taken without any benefit. But you would be surprised how much everywhere is helped by these things.


And how is it stupid, they have a product (cash for clunkers) figured it would take about 2 months, but used up all the resources for it in 1 week. Am I saying that this is weed? No, just that a very successful program thats goal was 2 billion dollars in a stimulus directed at car dealerships was so successful, it used those funds in 1/8th the time it was thought to take.

Another example, I am paying 200k to build a house. The builder says that it will be done in 8 months. But using that same amount of money he finished it in 1 month with no diminished quality. The money is the same just the timeline was changed in my benefit.

Just some thoughts I have about the thing...

They did this last year in Germany. Just like here it was a huge success. Now this year nobody is buying any cars. The new and used car market dried up because everybody had new ones. The government owned all those cars and scrapped them. The scrap metal market has since hit the floor, with scrap prices at an all time low.

I'm not sure of all the details but is that what we will be looking at in 1 year?
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Could this not be due to the entire worlds economy almost melting down this last year, and not because of a car trade in program? Not everyone is able to take advantage of this. It is just a sugar high to spur some growth. Also American car buying was very low this last year too. And we didn't have this program in 2007 or 2008.
 
S

SlikWiLL13

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
And how is it stupid, they have a product (cash for clunkers) figured it would take about 2 months, but used up all the resources for it in 1 week. Am I saying that this is weed? No, just that a very successful program thats goal was 2 billion dollars in a stimulus directed at car dealerships was so successful, it used those funds in 1/8th the time it was thought to take.
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umm, i cant believe i have to explain this. selling weed bring in money. giving people money does not. even if both are succesful ventures you cannot compare the two.
 
doobnVA

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
GrowTech said:
and while the economy does concern me, its just not bad enough to not purchase a car.



:)
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Maybe not for you, but plenty of people who *are* employed can't seem to find the cash to purchase a car. Why do you think the "big 3" are (or were) facing bankruptcy? Because people aren't buying cars.
 
doobnVA

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
The whole program was basically a ploy to get people into the dealerships to buy cars. Did it work? Yep, looks like it did.

So, they ran out of money (or are suspecting they have.. last I heard there was a backlog of clunker claims and the claims that had already been filed totaled some 97 million dollars - which is why they decided to suspend the program until the backlogged claims have been sorted out). I'm pretty sure that was the point, anyway... to use up all the money that was allotted for the program. I don't see any problem with that.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
umm, i cant believe i have to explain this. selling weed bring in money. giving people money does not. even if both are succesful ventures you cannot compare the two.
Click to expand...
Here is my full quote, so that you can see I understand the difference:
And how is it stupid, they have a product (cash for clunkers) figured it would take about 2 months, but used up all the resources for it in 1 week. Am I saying that this is weed? No, just that a very successful program thats goal was 2 billion dollars in a stimulus directed at car dealerships was so successful, it used those funds in 1/8th the time it was thought to take.

Another example, I am paying 200k to build a house. The builder says that it will be done in 8 months. But using that same amount of money he finished it in 1 month with no diminished quality. The money is the same just the timeline was changed in my benefit.
Click to expand...
It is about moving the product, the amount of money exchanging hands does not differ, just the time that it takes to do so.
 
cph

cph

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
Could this not be due to the entire worlds economy almost melting down this last year, and not because of a car trade in program? Not everyone is able to take advantage of this. It is just a sugar high to spur some growth. Also American car buying was very low this last year too. And we didn't have this program in 2007 or 2008.
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Could very well be because of the world market. Besides a few indicators everything is still looking kind of bad.

Yah, they're prolonging the program with another $2 billion. Then what???? How are auto sales going to look in the months following this??? Everyone that can get a new car will one.:peace:
 
mexiblunt

mexiblunt

Well-Known Member
I kinda wish we had that up in canada right now. Anyone want a 93 GrandAm Gt? It's fucked. everything mint except the drive train. Supposed to cost more than the car is worth to fix. I'll give it away for 800 U.S. It's more than the wrecker will give me plus you Americans can go get 4500 for it. sweet deal no?
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Could very well be because of the world market. Besides a few indicators everything is still looking kind of bad.

Yah, they're prolonging the program with another $2 billion. Then what???? How are auto sales going to look in the months following this??? Everyone that can get a new car will one.:peace:
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The hope is that they can clear out a lot of the inventory with this. That way in the months to come the auto dealers will need to order more new cars, that will lead to the manufactuers having to get raw materials and products to make them, which means that they will need to pay the people that make them, which leads out even further to the people in those communities that go out to eat, buying cloths, on and on.

Then that added to the other stimulus circulating should help get the system back moving, the 90billion in small business loans, green energy packages, bank bailouts that helped keep millions in work and stopped the destruction of the lifeblood of our economy, The loan to the big2 to keep them from collapsing, the 750k stimulus, healthcare that has seen a decline in patients since people have been losing their insurance, educational grants that will help to stimulate the schools, on and on.

This will add to the demand and once people start to buy from each other again it will start to move back to a normal state in the economy.

We need to look at the whole picture. Each bill is adding to the last as a whole. Without one early on the system would have imploded, now it is more a look into the future. If we can improve on the ways we have been doing things all the better.
 
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