Big Bug Question?/! Subject: Aphids

Please correct me if I am wrong but Aphids excrete "Honeydew" correct? I know it can be used as a natural sweetener/sugar source. I had messed with the concept with wildcrafting brews. How hard would it be to "Farm" Aphids to produce excrement en-mass (like frass for fert)? They don't sting like bees, and for those in colder climates natural sugar sources are very limited. I ask because ppl keep insectories, you would only need to be need a commercial corn field . . .

Thoughts?

you're high

Aphid Shit Beer?

I'm just sayin' if I were on Alone and wanted a brew. . . How did they ferment things into wines and beers before they had sugar available? Gotta figure work arounds out.
Don't count on things always being available all the time or that their costs will not go up.

And yes, yes I am High . . .

living gardening said:

I'm just sayin' if I were on Alone and wanted a brew. . . How did they ferment things into wines and beers before they had sugar available? Gotta figure work arounds out.
Don't count on things always being available all the time or that their costs will not go up.

And yes, yes I am High . . .

Click to expand...

In the old days their sugar source was exactly the same at it is today. Grapes for example contain a lot of sugar. It's still how they make wine - minus the foot stomping of course. The source of sugar for making beer is the malted barley.

Honey has historically been a sugar source to make a fermented beverage called "mead".

I was speaking to sources that could be added to things with low sugar content.
I was aware of barley and alpha and beta amilase. Malted barley and SST's for sure.
Honey has analgiesic properties (anti-microbial) so honey isn't something I've messed with.
I've made many ferments even onion wine . . .

living gardening said:

I was speaking to sources that could be added to things with low sugar content.
I was aware of barley and alpha and beta amilase. Malted barley and SST's for sure.
Honey has analgiesic properties (anti-microbial) so honey isn't something I've messed with.
I've made many ferments even onion wine . . .

Click to expand...

I don't think fermented onion beverage is historically popular (I could be wrong), but then again sugar isn't a rare commodity in nature. Your cannabis plant makes lots of it. Often things like herbs or "medicinal" ingredients were added to brews for flavour or to imbibe with some sort of healing power. In the tropics, the most common source of sugar predating modern civilization was the sap from various types of palm trees. Around the world in remote places they still ferment palm sap to make an alcoholic beverage, with each region adding its own additives depending on local flora available.

Now here's an idea: Figure out a way to collect cannabis root exudates that would otherwise go to waste with hydro growers and ferment that to make a "beer". I have no idea how this could be done, but think of the marketing opportunities!

OK.
Aphids. Their waste is sweet because they have something sweet to suck on.
We have apples, corn and Sugar Maple here, plenty of local starch & sugar (for the aphids).
I suspect that it's far easier to use natural sugars.

Anyway......Humans have been ingesting alcohol & getting shitfaced even before we were Human.

So I figure that after several hundred thousand years of experimentation, just about everything has been tried, even bugs.

BTW - I don't think an Aphid Farm is a good idea in general

I agree it would be a difficult thing to sustainably run and not destroy everyone's crops in the process. I have the book on herbal and healing beers and brews. I think I may try to ferment some of the biomass from my hemp this year and see what may come of it.
As far as my onion wine, it was a way to use the leaves from the ramps I foraged. The end result was not as unpleasant as many would think. I was thinking of food preservation long term. I can't always have fresh onions to cook with but I can impart flavor and a touch of alcohol usually does add to dishes. Tomato wine, carrot wine, you name it. We can ferment it.
Over all, my point was, if I were lost in the woods/wilds and I wanted to make a brew/beer/soda/wine if I saw a bunch of aphids I wouldn't have to raid a bee hive.
Just an exercise in bush crafting . . .

I love this forum! Ppl here have a much more open view of things.
Thanks for you comments guys

living gardening said:

I agree it would be a difficult thing to sustainably run and not destroy everyone's crops in the process. I have the book on herbal and healing beers and brews. I think I may try to ferment some of the biomass from my hemp this year and see what may come of it.
As far as my onion wine, it was a way to use the leaves from the ramps I foraged. The end result was not as unpleasant as many would think. I was thinking of food preservation long term. I can't always have fresh onions to cook with but I can impart flavor and a touch of alcohol usually does add to dishes. Tomato wine, carrot wine, you name it. We can ferment it.
Over all, my point was, if I were lost in the woods/wilds and I wanted to make a brew/beer/soda/wine if I saw a bunch of aphids I wouldn't have to raid a bee hive.
Just an exercise in bush crafting . . .

I love this forum! Ppl here have a much more open view of things.
Thanks for you comments guys

Click to expand...

You should try LABs also if you're into bushcraft. It's not only preserves meat along with smoking and drying, but can also preserve vegetables to a pH of under 3 which is considered shelf stable. And to preserve stuff over the winter months, we want something self-stable around to eat.

Northwood said:

You should try LABs also if you're into bushcraft. It's not only preserves meat along with smoking and drying, but can also preserve vegetables to a pH of under 3 which is considered shelf stable. And to preserve stuff over the winter months, we want something self-stable around to eat.

Click to expand...

If you use the right amount of salt, only the correct microbes grow (country ham, or other dried hung sausages). Labs in perticular with meat? I wonder, do you have any links?

living gardening said:

If you use the right amount of salt, only the correct microbes grow (country ham, or other dried hung sausages). Labs in perticular with meat? I wonder, do you have any links?

Click to expand...

Yeah, you need between 2 and 3 percent salt per weight of product (including water content) to ensure that LABs will dominate. That's standard ancient German Sauerkraut science (really accidental like wine lol). But it was an accident that happened all over the world like since the dawn of civilization. I'm not sure why anyone would ask for links on this. FFS, haven't you ever read the ingredients on yogurt or buttermilk or whatever? Food has been preserved this way for like since I was a tiny child and I fought with dinosaurs!

And yes lactic-acid is a good thing in preserved meat, cause they decrease the pH so much that with the proper salt content (and nitrites from nitrates over time) and dryness, they are shelf-stable and can be depended upon if a zombie apocalypse ever happens. I usually get my supply of culture from.

It's the law in my country and other civilized countries to get the pH and water level to that level, otherwise it can hurt or kill people. Hence a Lactobacillus culture is the only way producers can abide by the law.

Northwood said:

Yeah, you need between 2 and 3 percent salt per weight of product (including water content) to ensure that LABs will dominate. That's standard ancient German Sauerkraut science (really accidental like wine lol). But it was an accident that happened all over the world like since the dawn of civilization. I'm not sure why anyone would ask for links on this. FFS, haven't you ever read the ingredients on yogurt or buttermilk or whatever? Food has been preserved this way for like since I was a tiny child and I fought with dinosaurs!

And yes lactic-acid is a good thing in preserved meat, cause they decrease the pH so much that with the proper salt content (and nitrites from nitrates over time) and dryness, they are shelf-stable and can be depended upon if a zombie apocalypse ever happens. I usually get my supply of culture from.

It's the law in my country and other civilized countries to get the pH and water level to that level, otherwise it can hurt or kill people. Hence a Lactobacillus culture is the only way producers can abide by the law.

Click to expand...

I was speaking to preserving meats. I know how to ferment things. I have fridges of lacto veg.
I'll stick to drying for my meat preservation.

living gardening said:

I was speaking to preserving meats. I know how to ferment things. I have fridges of lacto veg.
I'll stick to drying for my meat preservation.

Click to expand...

Ensure you dry only lean thin strips of whole meat very quickly for safety's sake, and store it airtight where humidity cannot later increase its Aw. I would also avoid doing this with certain meats that could be infected by trichinella like pork and wild game meats because drying alone will not make it safe to consume.

Simple drying of raw meat products such as in the production of salami, spanish chorizo, traditional pepperoni, etc. as the sole method of preservation is illegal here, and likely in your country too. By the time Aw (water activity) reached safe levels, harmful bacteria may have already reached populations that could easily cause death. This is why these deli products are initially fermented and then subjected to a slow drying process that can last weeks or months. I have a few commercial meat fermenting cultures in my freezer right now. These include LAB cultures containing species such as L. curvatus, L. sakei, L. farciminis, S. carnosus, and P. acidilactici. Various strains also impart the characteristic flavour profile that the specific product-type should have.

Canada, USA, and most other countries have strict standards for how long the meat fermentation period must last at specific temperatures to reach a pH of under 5.3. In other words, if your fermentation temperature was 35 degrees C and it took more than 28 hours to achieve a pH drop below 5.3, the entire production batch cannot be legally sold and must be thrown out.

Meat (including fish) has been fermented since ancient times for preservation all around the world, but they relied on the natural LAB populations within their working environment to achieve fermentation. Obviously not the safest way, but many Italians in particular still make their fermented homemade meat products this old way where it's still an important part of their culture. The indigenous populations of Alaska and northern Canada still rely on fermentation to preserve meat using naturally occurring bacteria in many communities. Fermented seal flipper - yum! Lol