Balancing Acidic PH of Peat based Soil?

I've had trouble starting seedlings in my sphagnum moss/ peat based soils

I'm assuming they quickly become unhealthy because of the acidic ph?

No nutrients ever added before problems start

How do you neutralize the medium beforehand?, soak/flush it out? Ammend it?

Any answers appreciated

I also have a highly alkaline silica supplment

Transplant into a sterile medium that is PH Neutral like perlite and vermiculite and you won't have to keep wondering why everything is messed up.

Steele_GreenMan said:

I've had trouble starting seedlings in my sphagnum moss/ peat based soils

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How do you know it's acidic? Some peat products like Pro-Mix have dolomite to buffer the ph. You could add some. But, I'd still wonder if you know that's really the problem. I think you'd need to wet a gallon container and use a good soil probe like a Control Wizard Accurate 8.

A simpler solution would be to use Rapid Rooter plugs. They're more for clones, the hole a little too large for seeds. Flip upside-down and make your own hole. You can even stick them in soil (in an 18oz container). No need to use a tray, transplanting into soil. Just put the plug in soil.

Check to see if it has added lime to keep ph in check. If so theres really nothing to worry about. Like someone else posted promix has it built in. So does sunshine mix. Majestic Earth does as well. Have a plant hats sat in a 5 gallon smart pot since October. The 1st 1.5 gallons was sunshine mix and the rest was Majestic Earth. Going into the ground in a few weeks. No Probs yet. Although I will be adding lime on transplant. That'd be a year in the stuff lol. Are you just using it for the seedlings and going into soil or what?

Pure peat is just about the worst thing you can grow in besides pure clay. After you water and let it dry, it's going to be dried out brick with terrible drainage. If you're going to use pure peat you need to add something like perlite at 50% or more to get any drainage. And you'll have ph issues compounded if you're using chemical fertilizer. Keep it simple and use a medium that's easy to work with.

Steele_GreenMan said:

I've had trouble starting seedlings in my sphagnum moss/ peat based soils

I'm assuming they quickly become unhealthy because of the acidic ph?

No nutrients ever added before problems start

How do you neutralize the medium beforehand?, soak/flush it out? Ammend it?

Any answers appreciated

I also have a highly alkaline silica supplment

Click to expand...

First, get a book on indoor plant culture. They're probably "unhealthy" because, well......I'll leave it at that.

They need nutrients from the get-go. They don't need silicates.

Uncle Ben said:

First, get a book on indoor plant culture. They're probably "unhealthy" because, well......I'll leave it at that.

They need nutrients from the get-go. They don't need silicates.

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Bought the silica for a ph up basically...

Uncleben i am a cash crop agriculture farmer, have lived on a farm my whole life, have grown outdoors for 7 years going on 8, i am an avid reader of plant biology and a avid reader in general

please dont come in here on your high horse and throw down on me like that

i really respect you, follow your threads, have employed a few of your own techniques, and have read alot of your stuff and actually believe what you have to say on this forum

i was merely being generic in terms when i said they were unhealthy,i do use basic organic nutrients usually from week three...

ive had many trials and errors with this medium , mostly positive, but this certain group of JOTI seeds ive started are reacting differently to my environment than anythign else ive grown before and this is my main concern.

ive done much reading on my problem, and merely posted on here out of boredom to see if anyoen else has problems with a peatmoss based medium and it turns out some people do...

anyway please if you want to help, engage me in conversation, but please dont talk down to me like im sitting here asking how much i will yeild with these "nuts" and this here "strand" under "a 26 watt cfl"....

coming from mainliner i'd laugh

coming from you...im actually kinda hurt....lol

Steele_GreenMan said:

Bought it purely for upping the ph.

Ben I really respect you and have read a lot of your stuff

But I don't need to be talked down

I've had enough grows under my belt and have been around long enough to know the basics.

I'm literally just asking if flushing my medium out before planting will help basically.

I do use basic organic nutrients right off the bat but not until week three...

Talking down to me and assuming I know nothing kinda is a dickish thing to do even tho I like you lol...

I have read many books and am a cash crop farmer, have grown up on a farm my whole life I understand basic plant biology

I have run man successful grows with this peat based medium but it's ph it naturally very acidic, around four.

Because of this, certain strains suffer more than others off the get go because of the acidity of the soil, everything else I have dialed in.

It takes a bit of watering with just filtered tap water but eventually most of them get over it, some strains recover slower, some dont


At the moment I'm running 8 different strains from company's like Vancouver JOTI, world of seeds, expert seeds.

I can tell certain strains are more resilient to it than others just by watching the individual groups progress.

Usually it is never a big problem but the joti seeds really don't take well to it while the others are minorly affected

I've noticed the joti seeds are more susceptible to heat stress as well


Instead of assuming try actually engaging in friendly conversation lol

I've done plenty of reading and I have. A decenr amount of experience

I was merely asking how to Ammend this soil issue on here to see if anyone else has encountered problems with a peat based medium

I have talked to a couple people beforehand who had the same problem and tended to stay away from peatbased mediums...

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I would add 25% aeration bits, and 25% compost/worm castings. The compost/castings will buffer the PH for you

_MrBelvedere_ said:

Pure peat is just about the worst thing you can grow in besides pure clay. After you water and let it dry, it's going to be dried out brick with terrible drainage. If you're going to use pure peat you need to add something like perlite at 50% or more to get any drainage. And you'll have ph issues compounded if you're using chemical fertilizer. Keep it simple and use a medium that's easy to work with.

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I am not using pure peat lol i am using a mix from my local hyrdro store called PRO MIX BX

it consists of:
Canadian spaghum peat moss
perilite
vermiculite
dolomite and calcitic lime

this is a very commonly used medium and i have used it before without much problems because i am assuming some strains are more susceptable than others because,and now i have 8 different groups of different strains goign and each strain progresses a little differenty, the main group of strains are all JOTI seeds outta vancouver, ive never grown them out before and they are the most unhealthy while smaller regular group is pretty much fine.

im just trying to figure out the best way to ammend this soil next time before i put beans in the medium, so they have the best chance

i was bored and posted this question on here to see if anyone else had problems with this type of medium (which i have foudn out recently that some do), while i read up on anythign else i could learn in the mean time..

i really appreciate any input i can get but come on UncleBen i know the basics lol....

az2000 said:

How do you know it's acidic? Some peat products like Pro-Mix have dolomite to buffer the ph. You could add some. But, I'd still wonder if you know that's really the problem. I think you'd need to wet a gallon container and use a good soil probe like a Control Wizard Accurate 8.

A simpler solution would be to use Rapid Rooter plugs. They're more for clones, the hole a little too large for seeds. Flip upside-down and make your own hole. You can even stick them in soil (in an 18oz container). No need to use a tray, transplanting into soil. Just put the plug in soil.

Click to expand...

i have rapid rooter plugs and have used them to clone many times, but never for seeds will give it a try.

i know for a fact its acidic despite having dolomite added to it because i check the ph before it goes in and the run off as well as the fact i know peat by itself has a ph leval of around four.

also if your read my other posts, i have had many good grows with this medium but its specifically this new group of many different strains from the same company : jordan of the islands

i have noticed all six of the JOTI strains i have react poorly to my environment while my regular strains (afghan skunk and bubba kush) are relativly fine and recover and grow quickly

i am thinking they are more susceptable to an adverse environment based simply of my observation of 44 individuals consisting of 8 different strains ad their progress compared to my last grows....

st0wandgrow said:

I would add 25% aeration bits, and 25% compost/worm castings. The compost/castings will buffer the PH for you

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thank you exactly the kind of answers i was expecting not..."go read a book you 'nube' no one has time for your BS"

Moisture control.

Average/moderate simple soils.

It works.

@Uncle Ben

heres a bunch of clones i took myself from one of my previous bubba k grows in this medium....

400 watt MH

look at dat green


dayyyyum look at that happy healthy leaf.... i know leaves give you a boner @Uncle Ben

the top pic is my most recent and current, a perfectly healthy momma currently chillin with me.

Funny, I topped it using "your technique"...

Before you assume, ask maybe!

Obviously I already know how to grow a healthy plant in this medium...

i thought this is a friendly a place where growers could converse about anything, including any random problems they might have, and i thought you were a friendly person and admired your info

but now i can see that you don't just treat your nay sayers with that arrogant attitude of yours...you treat anyone who you see as inferior like a complete dick...
or am i wrong?

why don't you apologize and redeem yourself in my eyes?

i used to look up to you but now i feel like the mask is coming off...lol!

Steele_GreenMan said:

dayyyyum look at that happy healthy leaf.... i know leaves give you a boner

Obviously I already know how to grow a healthy plant in this medium...

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Obviously I already know how to grow a healthy plant in this medium...

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Yeah, and obviously your hand and the reflective panels are also greenish. What's up with that?

You're the one coming in here saying - "I'm assuming they quickly become unhealthy because of the acidic ph?

OK. What's the pH of the soil and it's nutrient charge?

For starts, too many folks worry about soil pH. More than likely the soil you bought has been designed to come in around 6.3.

Silicate products should not be used to adjust pH. They're not designed for that and you could be doing more harm than good by giving a plant something it really doesn't need. Use something like potassium hydroxide, IF, after doing an accurate soil test the pH is out of whack, say.....4.5. I bet it's fine

why don't you apologize and redeem yourself in my eyes?

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Why don't you shut the fuck up and answer my questions, or, if you really don't want help then drop the discussion.

UB

Steele_GreenMan said:

i know for a fact its acidic despite having dolomite added to it because i check the ph before it goes in and the run off as well as the fact i know peat by itself has a ph leval of around four.

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What is your method and instrument for checking pH?

Steele_GreenMan said:

I am not using pure peat lol i am using a mix from my local hyrdro store called PRO MIX BX

it consists of:
Canadian spaghum peat moss
perilite
vermiculite
dolomite and calcitic lime

Click to expand...

Pro Mix BX is a high quality product and needless to say, pH buffered using lime.

http://www.pthorticulture.com/en/products/pro-mix-bx-biofungicide-plus-mycorrhizae/#tab:product-specification

Steele_GreenMan said:

I am not using pure peat lol i am using a mix from my local hyrdro store called PRO MIX BX

...

Click to expand...

....and I'm more than surprised that you would have any kind of issue with seedlings in that.

Steele_GreenMan said:

i know for a fact its acidic despite having dolomite added to it because i check the ph before it goes in and the run off as well as the fact i know peat by itself has a ph leval of around four.

Click to expand...

I don't think you've mentioned which ph product you use, and what the runoff is.

I use Pro-Mix HP which has dolomite from the factory. It's about 5.8 out of the bag. That's a good ph for soilless. (I don't think I've ever seem peat with dolomite down around 4.0.).

I want a light soil, not soilless. I add 20% Kellogg Patio Plus potting mix which is about 7.0 out of the bag. (And 20% perlite.). That results in ph 6.2-6.3. I add 1.5-2 Tbsp/gal powdered dolomite which doesn't affect or raise the ph at this level. It's more like a counterweight against the peat acidifying over time. I've considered adding a tiny (1/8 tsp/gal) amount of hydrated lime to push it to 6.4-6.5. But, I never get around to trying it because 6.2-6.3 is working well.

I used a Control Wizard Accurate 8 ($60) soil probe to determine the above.

Even though I'm in a good range, I haven't liked the results of sprouting in this. Not because of the ph. I thought it was the irregular texture of the soil. I thought Rapid Rooters would be a more consistent medium. I used for the first time recently and liked the results much better. I flip them up side down and poke my own hole because the hole it comes with is too large for a seed, IMO.

It sounds like you got some seeds that aren't as hardy as you're accustomed to. I have one strain like that.

i did mention the ph run off earlier anyway

its around 4 - 4.5 usually coming out and always 6.5 going in

i havnt even used the silica yet just grabbed it when i was at the store outta curiosity if you think its really that harmful i wont use it.

anyway i use a calibrated digital ph meter i also got from my hydro store...

and @az2000 i think you may be right on that last point regarding their hardyness

@Uncle Ben i did not colour the picture whatsoever and just noticed, yoru right there is a slight green tinge but i did nothing to change the colour and they really were that green and healthy lol scouts honour.

and there is NO reflective paneling in there its just drywall..i honestly dont know whats up with that tinge btu anyway you can see those leaves are super big and healthy i did not edit that picture they were that green in real life.

those clones ended up yeilding me around 4 pounds outdoors last year, not amazing considering the plant count , but i did alright

so stop shitting on me for no reason, like ive said many times i respect you and to be shit on by someone liek you, for no reason i might add, is pretty upsetting to me lol im surprised at how much its affected me...i honestly might leave roll it up for good now...and ive been reading/luriking around here since 2008

and dude dont tell me to shut the fuck up when i havnt even had a chance to reply to you questions


i think what has been mentioned is the true source of my new problems and thats that my current strains are less hardy than my previous...weird

anyway @Uncle Ben en im sorry, i apologize if we got off on the wrong foot and maybe we can be a little more civil, your continued negative attitude is only reinforcing my belief that your a complete asshole...rather than one of my roll it up heroes along with djj , groeer, mohican, sativied, hyroot,mwooten amoung others..

but honestly dude i know you have lots to teach and i still have much to learn and im sorry for coming off as arrogant, can we be cool?

Steele_GreenMan said:

i did mention the ph run off earlier anyway, its around 4 - 4.5 usually coming out and always 6.5 going in

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What you said was: "i check the ph before it goes in and the run off as well as the fact i know peat by itself has a ph leval of around four."

Literally, I didn't read that to say that you actually measured 4.0-4.5.

Perhaps you have some bad peat. Maybe it has no dolomite. Or, it became exhausted in some way? Left outside, going through wet/dry cycles (getting wet, bag torn, etc?).