above canopy ppfd vs 3-D ppfd

in theory lets say we had a 4x4 with 16 cobs @ 1050ma giving ~980ppfd ABOVE one tray, pulling a total of ~588w


in the other tray lets say we had a 4x4 with 16 cobs @ 700ma giving ~700ppfd and pulling ~392w, but lets say we add two cobs on each side of the tray, giving light to the lower branches. adding 8 x 23w = 184w
392w+184w= 576w.

so approx same wattage pull, but different dynamic in penetration, intensity, etc.... discuss..

depends a lot on what your roots can sustain. assuming no limiting factors i imagine yield gain would be somewhat proportional to wattage gain on that otherwise underutilized space

lotta factors in how bottoms were handled. if they were neglected until flowering then lit up i dont think they would do anywhere near as wel as ones that were side-lit all thru veg.

banke1 said:

in theory lets say we had a 4x4 with 16 cobs @ 1050ma giving ~980ppfd ABOVE one tray, pulling a total of ~588w


in the other tray lets say we had a 4x4 with 16 cobs @ 700ma giving ~700ppfd and pulling ~392w, but lets say we add two cobs on each side of the tray, giving light to the lower branches. adding 8 x 23w = 184w
392w+184w= 576w.

so approx same wattage pull, but different dynamic in penetration, intensity, etc.... discuss..

Click to expand...

SunCloak 4416Personally, I'm loving 3-D growing!

banke1 said:

in theory lets say we had a 4x4 with 16 cobs @ 1050ma giving ~980ppfd ABOVE one tray, pulling a total of ~588w


in the other tray lets say we had a 4x4 with 16 cobs @ 700ma giving ~700ppfd and pulling ~392w, but lets say we add two cobs on each side of the tray, giving light to the lower branches. adding 8 x 23w = 184w
392w+184w= 576w.

so approx same wattage pull, but different dynamic in penetration, intensity, etc.... discuss..

Click to expand...

your second case should perform better.
- side lighting (like in early morning and early evening) gives better penetration through the canopy. (as in the ridiculous suncloak taking side lighting to the extreme)

- efficiency is higher running 18 cobs at a lower amperage vs running 16 cobs at a higher amperage. Haven't done the exact calculations but expect you will get more lumens per watt.

PurpleBuz said:

your second case should perform better.
- side lighting (like in early morning and early evening) gives better penetration through the canopy. (as in the ridiculous suncloak taking side lighting too the extreme)

- efficiency is higher running 18 cobs at a lower amperage vs running 16 cobs at a higher amperage. Haven't done the exact calculations but expect you will get more lumens per watt.

Click to expand...

What do you follow me around just to make persnickety remarks everywhere I go?

Hybridway said:

What do you follow me around just to make persnickety remarks everywhere I go?

Click to expand...

do you really think the suncloak is a practical scalable grow system ?

and no I don't follow you around, I was watching your suncloak grow for a while out of curiosity. I just happen to read a lot.

If the OP's 2 scenarios used equal amount of light, the one that's spread out over a larger canopy surface should yield better.


At the weird vertical led grow system, seems like a lot of work with a high price tag. A 600w bare bulb HPS vert with 8 plants around it would probably give similar results to that system.

banke1 said:

in theory lets say we had a 4x4 with 16 cobs @ 1050ma giving ~980ppfd ABOVE one tray, pulling a total of ~588w


in the other tray lets say we had a 4x4 with 16 cobs @ 700ma giving ~700ppfd and pulling ~392w, but lets say we add two cobs on each side of the tray, giving light to the lower branches. adding 8 x 23w = 184w
392w+184w= 576w.

so approx same wattage pull, but different dynamic in penetration, intensity, etc.... discuss..

Click to expand...

Good question & idea.
I would recomend putting 1/2 of the COBs around the plants ( running slightly softer w/ lens or just as hard w/o & the other 1/2 above.
From my experience I have consistently yeilded a QP more from each plant running a 4 bulb, 4' T-5 w/ my selected spectrum. On only one side of the plants. The T-5 hits 2 plants directly on the side but the 2 on either side of that also Yeild a QP more w/ only a few small household LEDs & CFL's added to the corners of the room. So, that 216w T-5 w/ a few halo 14w LEDs & a few , 23 w CFL's allows me a Q x 4 plants which equals a pound off like 300w of side lighting.
I find you get allot more then would be expected by adding a little light to the side of the plant along w/ your main light source.
In my case, it was 600w HPS above w/ a T-5 & some rinky-dink LEDs n CFL's.
I can only imagine the Yeild increase if there were side-light on all sides. ??? Dying to do it but that requires growing a plant by itself & I don't have that luxury.
After doing that 3x I decided to buy the SunCloak so to really give 3-D growing a shot as supposed to just supplementary.
I grow w/ a maxed out 9'x11' canopy with a mega-scrog @ 13'x11' wall-wall. So I haven't the room in there to go crazy plus it gets to be to much heat w/ to much side-lighting.
The SunCloak seemed like a great solution. It made everything so easy & allowed me to flower 6 monsters in a 4'x4'. Buds everywhere. Literally. With 800w running the diodes to achieve like 147 lm/w of a 22k broad spectrum. Meaning rounded off not spiked like HPS. Similar to the Next-light spectrum but lil less blue.
The light-system isn't cheap but pays for itself twice over the first run. On GC (another forum) a guy, Tommy Trichlone just harvested 2.7 lbs. out of his Cloak in a 4'x4'. I'm bout to harvest mine but I personally had a poor grow. Not from the light but by my own hand. Didn't have the time to tend it properly & a very poor veg.
You will increase your Yeilds significantly w/ side-lighting added. 8 COBs on top & 8 cobs on the sides (canopy height prior to stretch) think would be the way to go in a 4x4.
You thinking about a new build?
Hope this helps.
I would shoot for 2100ma on top & 1050 on the sides. Not a DIY'r so not sure the total there w/o looking a few things up. But to get the most off a configuration like this I'd wanna be using between 600-800w of Cobolious.

PurpleBuz said:

your second case should perform better.
- side lighting (like in early morning and early evening) gives better penetration through the canopy. (as in the ridiculous suncloak taking side lighting to the extreme)

Click to expand...

So in between trash talking you have been paying attention after all It's a shame you're such a dick PurpleButt.

Sativied said:

So in between trash talking you have been paying attention after all It's a shame you're such a dick PurpleButt.

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I didn't learn that from you