What this heck is this?

priestriver said:
I am the op. I didn't say don't add cal mag.
I added very low amount. Much less than FF says to use and they make the soil. Wonderful soil I might add. But .. it's hard to read the soil. Even ppm seems like a black box.
My program which has some success.
FF ocean forest.
Always pH at 6 or so.
Don't add any nutes til 4-5 weeks in, or more, with FF OF.
Add 1/3 what FF says to use. I learned that from using it over 3 years.
Add nutes every other watering at this point.
Skip 2-3 days between watering.

Of all the things I have learned, one is that on this forum, which I use and appreciate, a poster will see many contradictions . 180 degrees out . But that's part of learning. Filtering. Using what makes sense to you and learning as the plants change in front of you. I use a log . It helps me look back.
Click to expand...
I use ffof as well and it is hot. Like you said I don't add much till mid flower and even then my solution is only 600ish ppm. As others have stated it is more than just nutes. It's rh, lighting, and all the other enviromental factors as well.
My point is that saying that if you add cal mag to soil that is the problem is a blanket statement and misleading unless I'm missing something. Not looking for trouble just clarity for all of our knowledge. Cheers.
 
Southside112 said:
I use ffof as well and it is hot. Like you said I don't add much till mid flower and even then my solution is only 600ish ppm. As others have stated it is more than just nutes. It's rh, lighting, and all the other enviromental factors as well.
My point is that saying that if you add cal mag to soil that is the problem is a blanket statement and misleading unless I'm missing something. Not looking for trouble just clarity for all of our knowledge. Cheers.
Click to expand...
Agree 100%
 
Southside112 said:
What does the soil have to do with it? Are you saying some soil already have an abundance of cal mag?
Click to expand...
Yes. A good, well balanced organic soil, should have calcium, and magnesium, already in the mix.

This is my plants right now.....20250326_193137.jpg20250326_193144.jpg

I use ffhf to start, and top dress with ffof, after~ 3 weeks. Then at flip, I top dress with flower girl, and a lil ffof. Then it's top dress the same amendments, every 2 weeks, until late flower. i top water recharge, once a week. Other than that, it's tap water only. No bottled nutes, no pH adjustments.

The way nature intended.

Look into no till soil. It's even better over time.
 
Hollatchaboy said:
Yes. A good, well balanced organic soil, should have calcium, and magnesium, already in the mix.

This is my plants right now.....View attachment 5458423View attachment 5458424

I use ffhf to start, and top dress with ffof, after~ 3 weeks. Then at flip, I top dress with flower girl, and a lil ffof. Then it's top dress the same amendments, every 2 weeks, until late flower. i top water recharge, once a week. Other than that, it's tap water only. No bottled nutes, no pH adjustments.

The way nature intended.

Look into no till soil. It's even better over time.
Click to expand...
Great reply. Thanks! Plants look great BTW.
 
Southside112 said:
Are you saying that soil already has an abundance of cal mag and adding is not necessary?
Click to expand...
Yes, and no.
I'm literally copy and pasting this because I'm too lazy
+1
Coco coir, unlike soil, has a high cation exchange capacity (CEC) that can lead to calcium and magnesium deficiencies because it binds to these nutrients, making them less available to plants, requiring the use of coco-specific nutrients and cal-mag supplements.
Here's a more detailed explanation:
Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC):
CEC refers to a medium's ability to hold and exchange positively charged ions (cations) like calcium (Ca), magnesium (Mg), potassium (K), and sodium (Na).
Coco coir has a high CEC, meaning it readily binds to these cations.
Coco Coir vs. Soil:
Soils have a natural balance of nutrients, including calcium and magnesium, which are readily available to plants.
Coco coir, on the other hand, is relatively inert and lacks these essential nutrients.
The high CEC of coco coir can lead to a situation where calcium and magnesium are bound to the coir and are not readily available for plant uptake.
Calcium and Magnesium in Coco Coir:
Coco coir can bind to calcium and magnesium, making them less available to plants.
This can lead to deficiencies in calcium and magnesium, which are essential for plant growth and development.

You said your tap ppm is 200 which is not high, and wouldn't need to use a 'hard water' version of nutes
All that basically is is less calcium, then you're going and adding more calcium on top of that...? So why not just use regular nutes that have a small amount of calcium the plants can use instead of guessing and overloading them. I've been growing for 20 years and only in the last 5-7 years has this cal mag craze sprouted. Everyone sees a spot and immediately believes cal mag is the magic fixer.
 
Jjgrow420 said:
Yes, and no.
I'm literally copy and pasting this because I'm too lazy
+1
Coco coir, unlike soil, has a high cation exchange capacity (CEC) that can lead to calcium and magnesium deficiencies because it binds to these nutrients, making them less available to plants, requiring the use of coco-specific nutrients and cal-mag supplements.
Here's a more detailed explanation:
Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC):
CEC refers to a medium's ability to hold and exchange positively charged ions (cations) like calcium (Ca), magnesium (Mg), potassium (K), and sodium (Na).
Coco coir has a high CEC, meaning it readily binds to these cations.
Coco Coir vs. Soil:
Soils have a natural balance of nutrients, including calcium and magnesium, which are readily available to plants.
Coco coir, on the other hand, is relatively inert and lacks these essential nutrients.
The high CEC of coco coir can lead to a situation where calcium and magnesium are bound to the coir and are not readily available for plant uptake.
Calcium and Magnesium in Coco Coir:
Coco coir can bind to calcium and magnesium, making them less available to plants.
This can lead to deficiencies in calcium and magnesium, which are essential for plant growth and development.

You said your tap ppm is 200 which is not high, and wouldn't need to use a 'hard water' version of nutes
All that basically is is less calcium, then you're going and adding more calcium on top of that...? So why not just use regular nutes that have a small amount of calcium the plants can use instead of guessing and overloading them. I've been growing for 20 years and only in the last 5-7 years has this cal mag craze sprouted. Everyone sees a spot and immediately believes cal mag is the magic fixer.
Click to expand...
This is a good reply thanks. I am familiar with coco needing additional cal mag. I just wanted clarity on your original post as it could be confusing to others.
As far as using hard water micro I don't personally add additional calcium to my solution. Cheers.
Lastly I think any water over 200ppm is considered hard. Ymmv.
 
Last edited:
My grows improved significantly when I ditched the ff liquid nutes and switched to dry amendments. I’ve been using Dr. Earth (home grown for veg, flower girl for flower) over the past few rounds. Simple and effective, strongly recommended getting away from the liquid stuff.
 
Øleg said:
Sadly I’ve been the one who as soon as I see rust spots I add a bit of cal mag
Click to expand...
I don't recall the title of the video but, in one of the videos where the guest is a long time grower and his perspective was that they don't get concerned as long as an issue is impacting <20% of the plant.

Of course experience ≠ expertise but it was an interesting anecdote.

The proprietor at scienceinhydroponics.com is a good source of info for cannabis growers, especially if growers using hydro. He's a PhD chemist and the author of HydroBuddy, a freeware program that's used to help growers formulate their own nutrients, so he's got the expertise.

First sentence of para 3 at this link reads "Most calcium deficiencies are actually not the result of Ca missing in nutrient solutions but they are caused by faulty Ca transport, which is often related with environmental issues."
 
Jjgrow420 said:
Yes, and no.
I'm literally copy and pasting this because I'm too lazy
+1
Coco coir, unlike soil, has a high cation exchange capacity (CEC) that can lead to calcium and magnesium deficiencies because it binds to these nutrients, making them less available to plants, requiring the use of coco-specific nutrients and cal-mag supplements.
Here's a more detailed explanation:
Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC):
CEC refers to a medium's ability to hold and exchange positively charged ions (cations) like calcium (Ca), magnesium (Mg), potassium (K), and sodium (Na).
Coco coir has a high CEC, meaning it readily binds to these cations.
Coco Coir vs. Soil:
Soils have a natural balance of nutrients, including calcium and magnesium, which are readily available to plants.
Coco coir, on the other hand, is relatively inert and lacks these essential nutrients.
The high CEC of coco coir can lead to a situation where calcium and magnesium are bound to the coir and are not readily available for plant uptake.
Calcium and Magnesium in Coco Coir:
Coco coir can bind to calcium and magnesium, making them less available to plants.
This can lead to deficiencies in calcium and magnesium, which are essential for plant growth and development.

You said your tap ppm is 200 which is not high, and wouldn't need to use a 'hard water' version of nutes
All that basically is is less calcium, then you're going and adding more calcium on top of that...? So why not just use regular nutes that have a small amount of calcium the plants can use instead of guessing and overloading them. I've been growing for 20 years and only in the last 5-7 years has this cal mag craze sprouted. Everyone sees a spot and immediately believes cal mag is the magic fixer.
Click to expand...


1743095737527.jpeg
 
Howdy. I use FFOF in 5g buckets w grow big & tiger bloom too. I amend my OF w rockdust containing micros & a balanced granular organic fert w NPK, Cal, Mag, and sulfur before sprouting. Solos for 10-14 days in unamended OF, 1 gals for next 10-14 of amended OF supplemented when necessary w a balanced liquid organic, then into final 5gal buckets of amended soil that's been marinating for the past monthish. Theyre allowed to grow into and root the 5gal for 10-14 days then flipped. They usually get 1st feeding of 1tbs GB & 1tbs TB a few days after flip. I rarely have any nutrient issues. The occasional plant may require a treatment or 2 w epsom while in 1gals. I feed 3tbs GB, 3tbs TB every other watering til week 6-7, then start tapering down nutes. Never Ph'd in soil. I use same size bucket, same soil, and liquid nutes. I veg for half the time and feed 1/3 more. 11 weeks veg in a 5 gal seems like a lot to me, especially giving that u feed on the conservative side. Hope I added something of value. Love.
 
Nutrient lockout due to salt buildup around the roots.

Everyone here sees the lockout but they don't mention the cause. You can't fix the problem by adding more shit to the soil. You need to fix the lockout with some sort of cleanse/flush and then add the nutrients back once the soil fully drains.
 
ScroteCombover said:
Howdy. I use FFOF in 5g buckets w grow big & tiger bloom too. I amend my OF w rockdust containing micros & a balanced granular organic fert w NPK, Cal, Mag, and sulfur before sprouting. Solos for 10-14 days in unamended OF, 1 gals for next 10-14 of amended OF supplemented when necessary w a balanced liquid organic, then into final 5gal buckets of amended soil that's been marinating for the past monthish. Theyre allowed to grow into and root the 5gal for 10-14 days then flipped. They usually get 1st feeding of 1tbs GB & 1tbs TB a few days after flip. I rarely have any nutrient issues. The occasional plant may require a treatment or 2 w epsom while in 1gals. I feed 3tbs GB, 3tbs TB every other watering til week 6-7, then start tapering down nutes. Never Ph'd in soil. I use same size bucket, same soil, and liquid nutes. I veg for half the time and feed 1/3 more. 11 weeks veg in a 5 gal seems like a lot to me, especially giving that u feed on the conservative side. Hope I added something of value. Love.
Click to expand...
Awesome. Going to look closer at this in the morning. Thanks
 
Jjgrow420 said:
Yes, and no.
I'm literally copy and pasting this because I'm too lazy
+1
Coco coir, unlike soil, has a high cation exchange capacity (CEC) that can lead to calcium and magnesium deficiencies because it binds to these nutrients, making them less available to plants, requiring the use of coco-specific nutrients and cal-mag supplements.
Here's a more detailed explanation:
Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC):
CEC refers to a medium's ability to hold and exchange positively charged ions (cations) like calcium (Ca), magnesium (Mg), potassium (K), and sodium (Na).
Coco coir has a high CEC, meaning it readily binds to these cations.
Coco Coir vs. Soil:
Soils have a natural balance of nutrients, including calcium and magnesium, which are readily available to plants.
Coco coir, on the other hand, is relatively inert and lacks these essential nutrients.
The high CEC of coco coir can lead to a situation where calcium and magnesium are bound to the coir and are not readily available for plant uptake.
Calcium and Magnesium in Coco Coir:
Coco coir can bind to calcium and magnesium, making them less available to plants.
This can lead to deficiencies in calcium and magnesium, which are essential for plant growth and development.

You said your tap ppm is 200 which is not high, and wouldn't need to use a 'hard water' version of nutes
All that basically is is less calcium, then you're going and adding more calcium on top of that...? So why not just use regular nutes that have a small amount of calcium the plants can use instead of guessing and overloading them. I've been growing for 20 years and only in the last 5-7 years has this cal mag craze sprouted. Everyone sees a spot and immediately believes cal mag is the magic fixer.
Click to expand...
There’s that word balance again OP with regard to soil :rolleyes:
People at fox farms or anywhere for that matter market anything people will buy and it’s up to the grower to understand what they’re needs are. Just bc something is for growing whatever doesn’t mean it’s what you need. I can put E85 in my F150 but it should not go in an engine that it’s not meant for but gas stations still sell it bc there is a demand.

You need to do some more research and nobody knows your environment better than you homie
 
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