Calcium or magnesium deficiancy? But why?

T

Treesomewanted77

Well-Known Member
I use sunshine advanced mix#4 and it’s a mix of coir and peat and I keep PH 5.8-6.3 all time and have no issues. But I have auto feed setup so it waters twice a day with plenty of runoff. Maybe I’m missing something here but coir and peat mix is used a lot these days but I did hear that they are starting to phase out peat use more as it’s not as renewable as coir.
 
thumper60

thumper60

Well-Known Member
Kushash said:
.

The OP is using advance nutrition grow a+b
Tap water. Calcium level unknown.
Cal mag with every feeding.

Could it be too much calcium?
Click to expand...
I would drop the cal-mag an go with half strength nutes an water with lots of run off not a flush. I bet they clear right up.
 
W

WeedLover487

Well-Known Member
Thanks guys

I always feed less, and not every watering, I am extra careful.
This grow I had some signs of deficiencies so I fed almost every water, but not calmag.

About the "soil" I am using. Its empty. All the plant gets is what you feed. Maybe there is minor starter or something I don't know but it designed to be empty for feed control. When I just started to use it, I didn't fed and all died from starvation in 3 weeks age and I didn't know why...cause when I grow before with regular soil I didn't feed before a month old.

I really don't think its an over fed but maybe ph.

Well, I flushed them all. 7 liter pot, 13 liter of ph tap water.

I also got new pack of calmag and grow a+b
I fed them half after the flush.
I needed to ph up a little to 6.4.

To learn from the issues, I checked runoff of both flush and feed for ph and ppm.

Ph is the in runoff is almost the same(water 6.3~6.4, runoff 6.3~6.1)

Flush water PPM - 150, runoff PPM - 160~190, look normal to me?
Feeding water PPM - 800, ronoff PPM 480 - what can I learn from it? look like the soil is eating nice?


Next - I will ph every watering
I will use the new pack of nutrients

Any idea what was the issue after runoff results?
I think they will be good but really want to know what was the main issue


* Reading some on nutrients expiration date I get mixed answers.. looks like this is no the issue here also hmmm
 
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Dirt_McGirrt

Dirt_McGirrt

Well-Known Member
My goodness the advice in here is all over the place.

Feed with every watering. You can let it dry back that's fine. Water to at least a bit of runoff if not like 20% of what you pour in. Always use calmag you've got coir in there or you're going to have a deficiency. PH your water. Case closed. That much PPM on runoff is fine I wouldn't adjust. Always use calmag. Did I say always use calmag yet? Try running 1ml a gallon.

1/2 ml per gallon is actually low. I had to jack up to1.5-2ml per gallon for some massive photos i've got going. I however am in full coir. The chemistry of coir is that it binds to calcium and magnesium, then phosphorous I think. So if you don't feed that coir at least 1/2ml to 1ml per gallon it'll start stealing stuff and you'll run a defiency.

If you're going yo flush do it with your nutes in there and all.
 

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W

WeedLover487

Well-Known Member
Dirt_McGirrt said:
My goodness the advice in here is all over the place.

Feed with every watering. You can let it dry back that's fine. Water to at least a bit of runoff if not like 20% of what you pour in. Always use calmag you've got coir in there or you're going to have a deficiency. PH your water. Case closed. That much PPM on runoff is fine I wouldn't adjust. Always use calmag. Did I say always use calmag yet? Try running 1ml a gallon.

1/2 ml per gallon is actually low. I had to jack up to1.5-2ml per gallon for some massive photos i've got going. I however am in full coir. The chemistry of coir is that it binds to calcium and magnesium, then phosphorous I think. So if you don't feed that coir at least 1/2ml to 1ml per gallon it'll start stealing stuff and you'll run a defiency.

If you're going yo flush do it with your nutes in there and all.
Click to expand...
The dosage for advance nutritions calmag is 2ml for liter
Usually I feed 1ml per liter in this age, and later on 2ml per liter once a week or so
Also I feed every second watering, but the new strains are delicate so I need to be careful perhaps they need more.
Always with runoff water.

On the left - 2 green crack - look nice with minor sings. Its a good strain.
On the right - granddaddy purple and bubble kush - they have the most deficiencies, and the reason I flushed is cause the bubble kush started to have signs also on the new leaves

They look better now I think:

01b.jpg


Bubble kush

02b.jpg
Bubble kush new leaves
04b.jpg

Granddaddy
03b.jpg
 
Kushash

Kushash

Well-Known Member
WeedLover487 said:
Thanks guys

I always feed less, and not every watering, I am extra careful.
This grow I had some signs of deficiencies so I fed almost every water, but not calmag.

About the "soil" I am using. Its empty. All the plant gets is what you feed. Maybe there is minor starter or something I don't know but it designed to be empty for feed control. When I just started to use it, I didn't fed and all died from starvation in 3 weeks age and I didn't know why...cause when I grow before with regular soil I didn't feed before a month old.

I really don't think its an over fed but maybe ph.

Well, I flushed them all. 7 liter pot, 13 liter of ph tap water.

I also got new pack of calmag and grow a+b
I fed them half after the flush.
I needed to ph up a little to 6.4.

To learn from the issues, I checked runoff of both flush and feed for ph and ppm.

Ph is the in runoff is almost the same(water 6.3~6.4, runoff 6.3~6.1)

Flush water PPM - 150, runoff PPM - 160~190, look normal to me?
Feeding water PPM - 800, ronoff PPM 480 - what can I learn from it? look like the soil is eating nice?


Next - I will ph every watering
I will use the new pack of nutrients

Any idea what was the issue after runoff results?
I think they will be good but really want to know what was the main issue


* Reading some on nutrients expiration date I get mixed answers.. looks like this is no the issue here also hmmm
Click to expand...
In the future I think you should use the term soilless to describe your mix not soil.
Looking at the pics I feel like a few other members that there is a lockout.
I'm sticking with too much calcium or a PH issue.

How often do you calibrate your PH Pen?
When was the last time it was calibrated?
What did you use to do the calibration?
 
W

WeedLover487

Well-Known Member
Kushash said:
In the future I think you should use the term soilless to describe your mix not soil.
Looking at the pics I feel like a few other members that there is a lockout.
I'm sticking with too much calcium or a PH issue.

How often do you calibrate your PH Pen?
When was the last time it was calibrated?
What did you use to do the calibration?
Click to expand...
I calibrate it recently and also before the flush
I use this one

pH Buffer 7

www.growthtechnology.com www.growthtechnology.com
 
Kushash

Kushash

Well-Known Member
WeedLover487 said:
I calibrate it recently and also before the flush
I use this one

pH Buffer 7

www.growthtechnology.com www.growthtechnology.com
Click to expand...
That's good.
Just wanted to make sure it was being calibrated.
I can't really help much as far as going forward. My style of growing is different so it's best to listen to someone who is familiar with your style.

I'll just say this about the leaves in the pictures. To me, they don't resemble a calcium deficiency as we normally see on a cannabis plant. I would argue that cannabis rarely develops a calcium deficiency in early veg on a small plant. The far majority of calcium deficiencies show up in the 1st few weeks of flower. It would make no sense for calcium to be deficient with the feeding sources being used IMO.
Magnesium deficiency: There are some similarities but to me it doesn't resemble a magnesium deficiency.
I really think what happened is that you saw a change in the leaves and felt it was becoming deficient and increased feeding possibly making it worse.
Last suggestion. Get your tap water report or have it tested to find out how much calcium is in it. Some tap waters are high in calcium.
Good Luck!
 
W

WeedLover487

Well-Known Member
Kushash said:
That's good.
Just wanted to make sure it was being calibrated.
I can't really help much as far as going forward. My style of growing is different so it's best to listen to someone who is familiar with your style.

I'll just say this about the leaves in the pictures. To me, they don't resemble a calcium deficiency as we normally see on a cannabis plant. I would argue that cannabis rarely develops a calcium deficiency in early veg on a small plant. The far majority of calcium deficiencies show up in the 1st few weeks of flower. It would make no sense for calcium to be deficient with the feeding sources being used IMO.
Magnesium deficiency: There are some similarities but to me it doesn't resemble a magnesium deficiency.
I really think what happened is that you saw a change in the leaves and felt it was becoming deficient and increased feeding possibly making it worse.
Last suggestion. Get your tap water report or have it tested to find out how much calcium is in it. Some tap waters are high in calcium.
Good Luck!
Click to expand...
Thanks!

You had a point, I just tested tap water ph and meter shows 14 lol!
It was calibrated before flush...very strange.
And I can't calibrated it no more, err code
Reset it few time didn't help.
Its more than 3 years old.

Before you ask, I use this one for storage :)

pH Probe Refill & Storage Solution

www.growthtechnology.com www.growthtechnology.com

This meter
hmdigital.com

PH-80

PH-80: pH HydroTester Series The PH-80 has proven to be the MOST reliable pH meter in its price range. It has become a favorite in such applications as hydroponics & gardening, pools & spas, aquariums & reef tanks, water ionizers, drinking water, and more. FEATURES...
hmdigital.com hmdigital.com

Saying that, I never adjusted ph with advance nutritions and tap water in my area, and nobody else that I know do for soil.
And saying soil, I mean for the "soil" I use too, according to grow store.

I will jump to the store next week to get a new meter.
 
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W

WeedLover487

Well-Known Member
Seawood said:
You say you’re not overwatering…what exactly is your routine?
Click to expand...
I water when the pot is light, also I have a meter if I am not sure.
Now its every 4-5 days.
Usually I give 2.5 liter for a 7 liter pot.

Trust me, no over watering.

BTW got myself a new PH meter, tap water are 8.0 +-
Usually the Advance nutritions reduce it to 6.x something

Well, I water them today without feeding.
If they will be OK it was too much feed, if they will have deficiency again, I didn't feed them enough or maybe Advance nutritions shelf life is not so long.
 
9

93OG

Well-Known Member
They look underfed to me. Lock out usually happens after the plants are dark green and shiny. I don’t see any signs that they ever had a high dose of nutrients. What’s the ppms of your feed solution, before and now?
 
9

93OG

Well-Known Member
800 hundred input to 480 runoff tells me they are not over fed. I’d expect the run off to be 2800-3000 if you’re having lockout problems.
 
W

WeedLover487

Well-Known Member
93OG said:
They look underfed to me. Lock out usually happens after the plants are dark green and shiny. I don’t see any signs that they ever had a high dose of nutrients. What’s the ppms of your feed solution, before and now?
Click to expand...
Totally agree, it wasn't over feed for sure.
Most ppl said ph lock that I wasn't familiar with and it happens without signs like over feed

Anyways now it one watering, one feed, with 6.5 ph water
 
W

WeedLover487

Well-Known Member
WELL!!!

They where just hungry..
I flushed them, fed them half dosage, and next watering gave them water only, they looked bad... almost didn't grow for 2 weeks.
Then I fed them full, they jumped from happiness! and so am I lol

Most important, I learned from it... with this "soil" I must feed more, to pass feed only once in four-five watering.
Thank you all


Before feeding
01c.jpg

2 days after feeding
02c.jpg
 
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