Total Noob using teas and I am a believer

[Mad Hamish]

Do you have clonex gel or the like? Aloe gel? Post a few pictures. I have been there Hamish. I almost killed the SM and Alex by damping off.

I didn't have the opportunity to get pics. Working on a badass contract and I could JUST get to check on them before dark. I am getting up at 04:30 to tend the outdoor babies, reporting for duty at 07:00 sharp. Aloe I have abundance of mate. Absolutely no shortage at all. I have no cloning gel but I do have a super potent Dutch powder called Rhizopon. Kicks Clonex in the balls pretty hard. I also have a willow tree, I can get willow water going NOW. It will be strong enough to root anything by the time I get up.
Should I pack a little aloe gel around the stems? I can do this very quickly, I will go harvest a fat leaf right now using a torch.

 

[Mad Hamish]

Hamish, where did you find your info on soil microbes thriving in dry soil? I'm not trying to call you out here, but honestly that runs counter to everything I've read on the subject. I think this topic deserves more discussion. If you're right, then that would be a game-changer for a lot of people. Watering less is very appealing to me.

Thoughts anyone?

Teaming With Microbes

EDIT: Give me a few minutes and I will reference the exact page...

 

[Javadog]

I thought that a dry-cycle also lead to a increased oxygen-cycle,
and that this might benefit the plant. Not clear on this one though...

Mad, if you can move the plants "in" then perhaps you can give them
a fan for a few days? (indirect, or as needed by the babies)

JD

 

[Mad Hamish]

I thought that a dry-cycle also lead to a increased oxygen-cycle,
and that this might benefit the plant. Not clear on this one though...

Mad, if you can move the plants "in" then perhaps you can give them
a fan for a few days? (indirect, or as needed by the babies)

JD

I am considering this JD Only problem is, I will need them to hit dark EXACTLY as it gets dark outside, which is going to be a bit hard. At our latitude, they need only a day or two under 18/4 and WILL flower as soon as I move them back outside. Weird I know. I have used this phenomenon to force early crops before. I am about to do it again with some DB. I can take clones outside last week November or first week Dec ONLY if I want them to continue in veg.

Stow: Page 32 of Teaming With Microbes explains how micro life relies on hydroscopic water, and actually does not live in cappilary water. Cappilary water gets sucked up by the roots, hence it will move the microbes with it. Hydroscopic water forms a thin film via the laws of adhesion, and it is this layer surrounding all soil particles that micro life uses to move around in. It also explains that this adhesive bond is so strong that to remove it will require actually cooking your soil. As long as hydroscopic water is there, micro life will indeed remain unaffected. A slight dry cycle of a day or what cannot remove much of it. It is not enough to be taken up by roots, so your plant will wilt before your micro herd dies off.

 

[Rrog]

Soap box please-

Maybe we're over-thinking a bit. You can't "less water" your way around this. Think about it. Intuitively, would the soil system work better in wet or almost dry? Will the microbes die off completely? Nope, as they're resilient. But we're not talking about if they live or die. We're discussing if they're working optimally or in some semi-dormancy. Optimal microbial activity does not mean clinging to life in a micro-layer of water.

I'm not so sure the micro-water layer survival isn't analogous to the fire blankets fire-fighters use. I can work, but no one is working optimally while under one. It's a state of emergency. Bad analogy, but makes a point, maybe.

EDIT- I will also say from personal experience that the constant moisture is an optimal situation. Look at the multi-year Blumat thread on IC. I don't think there's one out of the hundreds on BM posters that didn't immediately see an improvement just from achieving constant moisture level throughout grow. That's a big grower testimonial right there. Not one of us BM-ers would say wet / dry is better.

 

[RedCarpetMatches]

^^^This is why I started mulching! Let's see those pesties even try it.

 

[Rrog]

I will say that watering is a complete pain in the ass. A tea when I feel like it is one thing, but a watering schedule is a ball and chain.

I completely get why it would be sweet to water a lot less.

 

[Mad Hamish]

You guys are awesome. Seeing as I cannot + rep anybody, here are some pics dedicated to you individually:

This one is for my man Myco. It is my LVBK keeper, just going into flower. Look, I stole your training tech!

For my bro Gandalf, always bringing on the frost:

Red, this one is as batty as you are. Look at those crazy pistils. She is going absolutely batshit in a good way

St0w, this girl is solid as a rock. You can beat somebody to death with it. Including you neighbour.

This girl has just been doing everything RIGHT. So Rrog this one's for you mate.

Me and this one here had a disagreement. She was the first to show the K def. We get along just fine now. For Hyroot:

This one was the last to come into flower, but is just as awesome as the rest. So the the newest member of the Circle Of Green, JD:

 

[Rrog]

What a funny post! I like that you're arming St0w with a bud-bat!

 

[Mad Hamish]

Soap box please-

Maybe we're over-thinking a bit. You can't "less water" your way around this. Think about it. Intuitively, would the soil system work better in wet or almost dry? Will the microbes die off completely? Nope, as they're resilient. But we're not talking about if they live or die. We're discussing if they're working optimally or in some semi-dormancy. Optimal microbial activity does not mean clinging to life in a micro-layer of water.

I'm not so sure the micro-water layer survival isn't analogous to the fire blankets fire-fighters use. I can work, but no one is working optimally while under one. It's a state of emergency. Bad analogy, but makes a point, maybe.

EDIT- I will also say from personal experience that the constant moisture is an optimal situation. Look at the multi-year Blumat thread on IC. I don't think there's one out of the hundreds on BM posters that didn't immediately see an improvement just from achieving constant moisture level throughout grow. That's a big grower testimonial right there. Not one of us BM-ers would say wet / dry is better.

Oh with this I fully agree! My point was just putting Trousers' mind at ease a little about his micro life in his fast-drying pots. SHIT. I forgot Trousers' pic. Dammit. Back in a mo....

Here we go, Trousers, one of the few people that made me laugh so hard I literally fell over. This pic refuses to not be sideways. I fed it happy water. If it keeps this up it will be getting the unhappy water and a stern talking to.

 

[st0wandgrow]

I am considering this JD Only problem is, I will need them to hit dark EXACTLY as it gets dark outside, which is going to be a bit hard. At our latitude, they need only a day or two under 18/4 and WILL flower as soon as I move them back outside. Weird I know. I have used this phenomenon to force early crops before. I am about to do it again with some DB. I can take clones outside last week November or first week Dec ONLY if I want them to continue in veg.

Stow: Page 32 of Teaming With Microbes explains how micro life relies on hydroscopic water, and actually does not live in cappilary water. Cappilary water gets sucked up by the roots, hence it will move the microbes with it. Hydroscopic water forms a thin film via the laws of adhesion, and it is this layer surrounding all soil particles that micro life uses to move around in. It also explains that this adhesive bond is so strong that to remove it will require actually cooking your soil. As long as hydroscopic water is there, micro life will indeed remain unaffected. A slight dry cycle of a day or what cannot remove much of it. It is not enough to be taken up by roots, so your plant will wilt before your micro herd dies off.

OK. I happen to have it with me in my car. I re-read the page, and I see where they mention the importance of watering the soil which pushes stale air out and exchanges it with fresh air.

I think I'm confusing what's considered optimal conditions with sufficient conditions. I'd agree that a day or so of dry soil conditions won't necessarily harm the micro-life, but I'd argue that they won't thrive under those conditions. More to your point of dormancy, I would venture to say that you are correct. A day or so of dry soil would not cause dormancy.

 

[Mad Hamish]

OK. I happen to have it with me in my car. I re-read the page, and I see where they mention the importance of watering the soil which pushes stale air out and exchanges it with fresh air.

I think I'm confusing what's considered optimal conditions with sufficient conditions. I'd agree that a day or so of dry soil conditions won't necessarily harm the micro-life, but I'd argue that they won't thrive under those conditions. More to your point of dormancy, I would venture to say that you are correct. A day or so of dry soil would not cause dormancy.

All these things keep coming in the way but I need to get my microscope a little higher on my priority list! It is the only way to REALLY KNOW. I can't wait till I can have a close and personal look. Until then, it is all just fascinating ideas. New Goal: Buy scope from Microbeman before Christmas.

 

[hyroot]

You guys are awesome. Seeing as I cannot + rep anybody, here are some pics dedicated to you individually:

This one is for my man Myco. It is my LVBK keeper, just going into flower. Look, I stole your training tech!

For my bro Gandalf, always bringing on the frost:

Red, this one is as batty as you are. Look at those crazy pistils. She is going absolutely batshit in a good way

St0w, this girl is solid as a rock. You can beat somebody to death with it. Including you neighbour.

This girl has just been doing everything RIGHT. So Rrog this one's for you mate.

Me and this one here had a disagreement. She was the first to show the K def. We get along just fine now. For Hyroot:

This one was the last to come into flower, but is just as awesome as the rest. So the the newest member of the Circle Of Green, JD:

 

[RedCarpetMatches]

Nice pics and witty Ham. One of my fav posts!

 

[st0wandgrow]

All these things keep coming in the way but I need to get my microscope a little higher on my priority list! It is the only way to REALLY KNOW. I can't wait till I can have a close and personal look. Until then, it is all just fascinating ideas. New Goal: Buy scope from Microbeman before Christmas.

You and me both. I would love to be able to put my ACT's under a scope a visually verify the things we are assuming. Until then I sleep well at night knowing that MM has done the work for us already!

 

[RedCarpetMatches]

OK. I happen to have it with me in my car. I re-read the page, and I see where they mention the importance of watering the soil which pushes stale air out and exchanges it with fresh air.

I think I'm confusing what's considered optimal conditions with sufficient conditions. I'd agree that a day or so of dry soil conditions won't necessarily harm the micro-life, but I'd argue that they won't thrive under those conditions. More to your point of dormancy, I would venture to say that you are correct. A day or so of dry soil would not cause dormancy.

I just re-read that page too lol. They survive...not thrive. Don't know how long they could go without becoming dormant though...

 

[Mad Hamish]

You and me both. I would love to be able to put my ACT's under a scope a visually verify the things we are assuming. Until then I sleep well at night knowing that MM has done the work for us already!

Hang on, good point... Could always ask him to show us pics of the SOIL up close and personal in various states. That would be badass. I would love to feed ACT according to when the soil NEEDS it. And know exactly when that need arises. Nonono... Get the scope MH, get the scope...

 

[Mad Hamish]

I just re-read that page too lol. They survive...not thrive. Don't know how long they could go without becoming dormant though...

Well I doubt Trousers was letting it get quite THAT dry... As long as hydroscopic water is not reduced, which I doubt is happening in a day, I still hold there will be zero damage to his micro herd. If they were thriving before, they'll be thriving now. Just my 2 cents guys. But like I said, proof is in the pudding, one needs to actually examine this and see.

 

[st0wandgrow]

Trousers example is a good one to highlight here. I would agree that if this were an isolated incident where maybe he forgot to water one night and his soil dried out, then really no harm done. If I understand his problem/question though, that wasn't really the case. He was having wet/dry cycles constantly due to low rh and fabric pots... which to me would not be good. At least not optimal. I'm not saying that his micro-friends would go dormant, but they wouldn't be firing on all 8 cylinders.

 

[GandalfdaGreen]

Great pictures Hamish. Those are really packing on the frost.