And the South shall rise again

[Nutes and Nugs]

Same with IE and firefox; haven't tried chrome though.

Chrome is as ugly as win8 but it works.

Rollie needs a better forum form someday.

 

[echelon1k1]

See? There we go with the personal attacks that really explain nothing. While Buck may be an "obama-zombie", what is gained by trying to troll him in return? Doesn't it just repel the people that may be otherwise swayed for to your side?

My opinions don't hinge on hoping to bring people over to my side, I'd never encourage anyone to believe something told to them by someone they don't know. They should always verify the info. themselves. Yes this section is intended for political discussion and I too understand exactly what you're saying and mostly agree. I try to keep it civil but if someone wants to go there cool, i'll return the favour, but bucks a special case who's smug jack-assery should not go unchecked, that's how ignorance flourishes...

 

[Canna Sylvan]

See? There we go with the personal attacks that really explain nothing. While Buck may be an "obama-zombie", what is gained by trying to troll him in return? Doesn't it just repel the people that may be otherwise swayed for to your side?

I don't want anyone on my side who is so easily swayed by the opinions and actions of others. I hate bandwagon mentality. We humans have the ability to think. Otherwise we're reacting like an animal does.

If a murderer is against rape, does that somehow change the morality of either?

 

[kpmarine]

I don't want anyone on my side who is so easily swayed by the opinions and actions of others. I hate bandwagon mentality. We humans have the ability to think. Otherwise we're reacting like an animal does.

If a murderer is against rape, does that somehow change the morality of either?

While that ideal is understandable (Not wanting the "easily swayed".); how is it practical? You catch a lot more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. The fact is that some people's perceptions of an argument are colored by how you present it. While they may eventually see the error of their ways. How is deterring them (By encouraging that reaction.), instead of helping them overcome their "animal" reactions by turning the other cheek and highlighting the error of their logic, helping the situation?

 

[Flaming Pie]

You know, I can't help but noticing something prevalent on threads where UB posts and differing views exist; I see Buck start with the Ad Hominem, and I see the opposition follow suit. Everyone bitches about how he argues, but eventually descends into, and encourages, the mudslinging. Why gratify his response with negative attention? If he's a troll, that's what he thrives on. If he's not a troll; why not state your argument and leave him contemplate it until he realizes the truth of your statements? Isn't returning his personal attacks in kind degrading the validity of your argument by avoiding the actual subject and lending validity to his Ad Hominems? Buck: The same question applies to you. Why lower yourself to their level if you think they are in the wrong? What is gained aside from a petty victory? How does it lend credence to your argument by being so abrasive? (For some reason, paragraph breaks don't work on this forum. Sorry for the single block of text.)

Agreed. Debate is far more satisfying for both parties when respect is involved. You may not agree, but if you argue in a non agressive fashion both sides can get their points across.

 

[Doer]

No. It is not debate. He knows that. He is a master troll. It takes one to know one.

What we see from bucky is a form I call, pantomime with words.

 

[beardo]

i used to do these debates and type out long responses and be polite and whatnot.

i mean, i even dropped the mod spot because i felt i was too abrasive but looking back i was not. rolli even asked me to come back and mod any time, although i am sure i have burned that bridge by now.

there are still plenty of people who fall into my "debate intelligently" category, but they are few and we've already mostly covered everything. there are more and more people who fall into the far different category of "troll mercilessly". and they all have different reasons for being trolled mercilessly. many have worked their way out of that group.

for example:

harrekin: used to troll the shit out of him, we talked, now we seem to have a pact not to interfere with each other's trolling and there are even certain members we co-troll, such as red1966.

red1966: has advanced and defended all sorts of specious arguments. just off the top of my head, he has advanced and defended the argument that gays have equal marriage rights as straights since either party is welcome to marry someone of the opposite sex. kinda like black people never had unequal right sif only they painted themselves white.

NLXSK1: never seems to slow down his roll when confronted by evidence to the contrary. says fucking weird shit sometimes (see my sig). eminently trollable.

fb360: would troll this guy harder but he seems too drunk to get my entertainment value out of it. plus, we went to the same college. so mild trolling.

muylocoNC: we live similar lifestyles but he just repeats too many words. i had to wean him off of "liberla lemmings" and "eco loons", but he's still going as if spotted owls prove that climate change is just a hoax. not even bad science, a hoax. a scam.

doer: old dumb retard. troll when things get dull.

desertdude: old, smug, racist prick. troll meanly.

trolling: would totally troll this guy, but he's fairly untrollable.

kpmarine: generally agree with, slightly less left leaning than myself. too composed a poster to troll even if i disagree.

beenthere: yeah, where is that guy?

fitch303: never posted again after i composed a list of his openly racist statements.

illegal smile: laugh, troll, laugh again.

mr. neutron: mustachioed hooker joke opportunity.

rob roy: one trick pony, one argument to be had, intractable. do not troll.

undertheice: doesn't respond well to trolling, but fun to troll anyway. usually takes a bite of the bait before letting go.


i hope rollitup doesn't condense mine into an unreadable block of text. it has done that before to me.

Trolling by omission
I don't even get a mention?
I am morally against abortion but when I get out and meet people and get to know them sometimes it makes me question my position
The same with the NWO, it's like I think their plans are terrible but then when I look around at everyone I think, would you blame them if they're planning on getting rid of most of these people?

 

[echelon1k1]

No. It is not debate. He knows that. He is a master troll. It takes one to know one.

What we see from bucky is a form I call, pantomime with words.

Don't give him that kinda credit... Pretending to be a troll when he's a liberal douchebag is just misdirection, at the heart of it he's a fucking dumbass...

 

[echelon1k1]

The same with the NWO, it's like I think their plans are terrible but then when I look around at everyone I think, would you blame them if they're planning on getting rid of most of these people?

I feel exactly the same... A real shitty thing to think but to a degree, they're right...

 

[Flaming Pie]

Uncle buck

who do we punish? the woman? the docotr? both? what is the punishment? how do we make sure pregnant women don't "accidentally" fall down rickety staircases or uneven sidewalks? ankle bracelets?

I suppose each scenario would require it's own law/rule.
- married woman aborts her baby. If the baby was the offspring of the husband, the husband should have the right to prosecute and divorce her without providing any spousal support. (Is there a law like this in existance?)

- If abortion was against the law, then a doctor who performed them would lose his license. A lawsuit or investigation because of a confirmed abortion would provide reason to check files.

- In the accident scenario, unless someone (relative,husband) decided to question it legally, it would simply be an accident.

how do we assure no abortions are had? monthly, government issued, mandatory pregnancy tests?

Just because something is illegal, doesn't mean people will stop doing it. The government would not be involved, except in the case of prosecution if and when a legal case is presented.

do we put women who miscarry on trial?

Miscarriage is not abortion. It was not through the will of the mother that she miscarried. Either her body was unable to support an embryo, the egg was not able to implant, or there was a defect that caused the body to attack the embryo.

exceptions for rape? no way. all life is precious, no matter how conceived.

I believe people who are raped should ABSOLUTELY go see the doctor and get put on the drugs that make implantation 99% impossible. Implantation happens within 1-2 weeks after sex. It can be avoided. I believe the drugs will also work after implantation. It stops the placenta from forming while the embryo is in the blastula stage. Which really is a bundle of cells.

 

[Doer]

buck - troll constantly and with extreme un-mercy

the 2 ITs - ignore

 

[canndo]

Uncle buck

who do we punish? the woman? the docotr? both? what is the punishment? how do we make sure pregnant women don't "accidentally" fall down rickety staircases or uneven sidewalks? ankle bracelets?

I suppose each scenario would require it's own law/rule.
- married woman aborts her baby. If the baby was the offspring of the husband, the husband should have the right to prosecute and divorce her without providing any spousal support. (Is there a law like this in existance?)

- If abortion was against the law, then a doctor who performed them would lose his license. A lawsuit or investigation because of a confirmed abortion would provide reason to check files.

- In the accident scenario, unless someone (relative,husband) decided to question it legally, it would simply be an accident.

how do we assure no abortions are had? monthly, government issued, mandatory pregnancy tests?

Just because something is illegal, doesn't mean people will stop doing it. The government would not be involved, except in the case of prosecution if and when a legal case is presented.

do we put women who miscarry on trial?

Miscarriage is not abortion. It was not through the will of the mother that she miscarried. Either her body was unable to support an embryo, the egg was not able to implant, or there was a defect that caused the body to attack the embryo.

exceptions for rape? no way. all life is precious, no matter how conceived.

I believe people who are raped should ABSOLUTELY go see the doctor and get put on the drugs that make implantation 99% impossible. Implantation happens within 1-2 weeks after sex. It can be avoided. I believe the drugs will also work after implantation. It stops the placenta from forming while the embryo is in the blastula stage. Which really is a bundle of cells.

This is a confusion. There is a difference between making abortion illegal - which was done with the results being that there were still over half a million "illegal" abortions a year and many more women died - and the new concept of "personhood"


If you want to talk about personhood, then it is not enough to simply hang around waiting for someone to report a crime. The state is obligated to detect and prosecute anyone who is suspect of taking a human life. If we are talking about personhood then indeed each miscarriage would need to be ajudicated.

in the case of personhood rape makes no difference because personhood is defined as a fertilized egg being a person with a full complement of constitutional rights. Buck's questions are sound but only if he is talking about personhood.


By the way, the cost of personhood in America would be according to my estimates about 3/4 trillion a year. The population of unwanted children would increase by about a million children a year for the first 18 to 21 years before leveling off at a permanent state supported class of people that numbered roughly 20 million.

 

[Dr Kynes]

mentioning illegal immigration is not racist, but bemoaning how your european blood will be tainted with african blood or polynesian blood is.

as is your ridiculous conspiracy theory about multiculturalism leading to something along the lines of a hitler youth, with singular mindset and all.

just take your retard ball and go home.

really... i have bemoaned miscegenation? i have made claims that sacred white bloodlines will be tainted by the corruption of "mud people" or some other such claptrap? im fascinated. i had no idea i gave a shit about any such thing.
the closest to that shit i have ever come is pointing out that the "multiculturalism" cult is in itself racist, urging the destruction of any ethnic differences which they invariably display with images of "homo-novus" who look like anything but a european. as a european myself, i would rather that my kids look like me, while multicultural cultists like yourself prefer my kids look like ANYBODY ELSE besides me. european= bad, everybody else = good. how simplistic. and entirely 100% racist of you.

"multiculturalism" is, as you have just displayed, a meaningless catchphrase for "all things leftist and therefore good". multiculturalism is just a buzzword used to convey support in principle for the entire lefty agenda and their constant attempts to undermine the foundations of america, particularly our constitution,, the religious beliefs of persons who dont believe in a manner approved by the left, and the social and cultural underpinnings that made this country the GREATEST NATION ON EARTH right up till the tipping point when we hit the skids.

the tipping point seems to be right around the middle of the second Reagan Term. Carter tried his best to push us over the edge, but Reagan pulled us back, and the left had to work even harder to push us even further towards the abyss.

the left, the New Left, "Progressives" and the post-modern liberals claim to support the foundations of our nation, but just want to make our shit better, when in fact they are in the basement with sledgehammers working hard to collapse the entire structure on their own heads.

and bucky, you are just another foolish sapper who doesnt understand that your efforts will CRUSH YOU FIRST before the rest of us get trapped in the rubble of your labours.

 

[canndo]

Fetuses turn into babies if you don't murder them and there aren't other problems. Yes sex is a function for creating babies, if you fuck women and ejaculate in their vaginas a baby comes out of their vagina nine months later if everything goes well, this is the function and purpose of the reproductive system...to reproduce.
you are absurd to imply that sucking fetuses out of women is not murder....and or is not wrong or immoral.
It is not illegal but the argument could be made that it should be, and also that it shouldn't be. But it is murder just not defined as such because of "law"
It could be argued that in a moral society people wouldn't want to kill their offspring and no one would want to receive an abortion so the problem would solve itself without laws being passed or enforced
It could also be argued that if abortion were illegal women would still kill their children before birth with the help of illegal doctors or a coat hanger.
Killing others is not ok, weather it is legal or illegal
The Nazi death camps were legal under the Nuremberg laws.

How wonderfully simplistic. Oh that the world actually came down to such clear terms.


Fetuses turn into babies? As you said, barring "other problems", but those other problems often times involve actions or inactions on the part of the mother - so are these actions or inactions manslaughter? hmm?

I love how so many actually believe that "sex is for creating babies" when it is clear that this is not true. If it were true than the female would never ever be interested in sex except during estrus. She would be as most other species on earth, when she was ready to conceive she would have sex as often and many times with as many partners as possible.

But gee wizz, it don't happen like that, and all that time and energy is wasted for the purpose of procreation - therefore, there must be at least one more reason for sex in homosapiens. But of course those who believe that sex is only for procreation are those who don't have much vested interest in science and tend to depend instead on "common sense".

So far as abortion being moral, well that depends upon who's God you believe in, or if you believe in one at all. It seems that the Jewish religion holds that an intrinsic part of being human is the posession of a soul of some sort and they believe that this "soul" is imbeded into a human some time after that human is born. Therefore, killing a thing that has no "soul" is not murder any more than killing a pig or a cow is murder, or immoral, or even wrong.

The "problem" of abortion will not solve itself by virtue of people not wanting to kill their offspring, the "problem" will simply shift to another part of society, a part where the parents have far less say. Would it have been immoral to have aborted Stalin?

Killing others IS "ok" when one exists in the real world, the real world involves relative ethics and morality. There are only a very few things that can be labeled as immoral anyplace any time. About the only one I can think of is rape.

If a country makes personhood legal then women would instantly be a suspect class, in that they have a penchant for killing their own children in our society. Laws would not make too much of a difference considering that during that period when abortion was illegal, half a million abortions were performed every year


Oh, I am not sure but I believe there were no "nuremberg laws" before nuremberg.

 

[Flaming Pie]

Are we talking endgame or are we trying to enact change?

Change cannot be drastic or it will be violently struck down.

As for personhood, I am not using that term. I am simply responding to the questions.

 

[UncleBuck]

really... i have bemoaned miscegenation? i have made claims that sacred white bloodlines will be tainted by the corruption of "mud people" or some other such claptrap? im fascinated. i had no idea i gave a shit about any such thing.
the closest to that shit i have ever come is pointing out that the "multiculturalism" cult is in itself racist, urging the destruction of any ethnic differences which they invariably display with images of "homo-novus" who look like anything but a european. as a european myself, i would rather that my kids look like me, while multicultural cultists like yourself prefer my kids look like ANYBODY ELSE besides me. european= bad, everybody else = good. how simplistic. and entirely 100% racist of you.

"multiculturalism" is, as you have just displayed, a meaningless catchphrase for "all things leftist and therefore good". multiculturalism is just a buzzword used to convey support in principle for the entire lefty agenda and their constant attempts to undermine the foundations of america, particularly our constitution,, the religious beliefs of persons who dont believe in a manner approved by the left, and the social and cultural underpinnings that made this country the GREATEST NATION ON EARTH right up till the tipping point when we hit the skids.

the tipping point seems to be right around the middle of the second Reagan Term. Carter tried his best to push us over the edge, but Reagan pulled us back, and the left had to work even harder to push us even further towards the abyss.

the left, the New Left, "Progressives" and the post-modern liberals claim to support the foundations of our nation, but just want to make our shit better, when in fact they are in the basement with sledgehammers working hard to collapse the entire structure on their own heads.

and bucky, you are just another foolish sapper who doesnt understand that your efforts will CRUSH YOU FIRST before the rest of us get trapped in the rubble of your labours.

you are a sad, stupid fuck.

 

[spandy]

What's the difference in an abortion at day one compared to the moment before birth? Why do some feel a timeline makes a difference? Still have to kill the unborn either way so why would it matter to a person who supports abortion?

 

[Canna Sylvan]

God has nothing to do with abortion's morality. Want to know why? Because God doesn't exist! God is a man made fantasy. I guess you believe Santa is why people are bad or good, huh Cando?

The morality behind abortion rests upon the assertion you're an asshole and claim a baby is a parasite.

How many Christian pro-lifers claim God is against killing parasites?

 

[Doer]

What do name callers say to the other?

YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU

Is it kind of like pantomime to me. Ah, what did the mime say to the name caller?
YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU

(soundless. get it?)

 

[beardo]

God has nothing to do with abortion's morality. Want to know why? Because God doesn't exist! God is a man made fantasy. I guess you believe Santa is why people are bad or good, huh Cando?

The morality behind abortion rests upon the assertion you're an asshole and claim a baby is a parasite.

How many Christian pro-lifers claim God is against killing parasites?

God exists
Maybe not in your religions and dogmas and books
but God exists and God is great, Gods work is all around you and God is great.