New to rollitup.org - New CFL Grower - Think I may have issues already. Help!

[natro.hydro]

You sound way less intelligent when you instantly jump to intensity and lumes for plant lighting. Lumens are measured by the luminosity curve, which peaks in our range of visible light in green, now this is because lumens are a measure of visible light, newsflash there is a thing called PAR and it is way more relevant to plants than our human eyes.... and if you say you never mentioned lumens, then what were you referring to of intensity, heat? cus they sure run a hell of a lot hotter. Feel free to keep eating the chocolate flavored propaganda the light companies and grow shops feed you cuz they are afraid of effiecient competition.

 

[bigv1976]

You sound way less intelligent when you instantly jump to intensity and lumes for plant lighting. Lumens are measured by the luminosity curve, which peaks in our range of visible light in green, now this is because lumens are a measure of visible light, newsflash there is a thing called PAR and it is way more relevant to plants than our human eyes... asshat...

Yeah I have read all that bullshit in LED sales ads. Have you found a reputable grower that uses them yet? I havent. If its all about spectrum why does every book, article or video stress lumens and light penetration? Why isnt anyone using them in the mainstream? Why are there a thousand people on this very sight that bought em and went back to HID? Why do LED companies change up which leds the use every 2 months but HIDs have been the same for decades? If they are all the rage why are there at least 50 world renowned growers I can name off the top of my head that ALL use hids but you cant name 1 that uses leds?

 

[natro.hydro]

Not a matter of believing, as much as I could entertain the concept if I could get a free unit to do my own beta test, or get test reports from others on the forum who are in their beta.

You gotta pay half to beta test...
A guy in this thread is beta testing one right now, and says it has some areas to improve like lens angle, but its a BETA.
https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/618534-best-leds-2013-a.html

 

[Figong]

You gotta pay half to beta test...
A guy in this thread is beta testing one right now, and says it has some areas to improve like lens angle, but its a BETA.
https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/618534-best-leds-2013-a.html

Yup, I posted in that thread yesterday - that statement re: free would be conditional, I'd give the light a solid test if it were free and they wanted unbiased reporting on it.. otherwise I'd rather experiment with reptile lighting.

 

[natro.hydro]

Yeah I have read all that bullshit in LED sales ads. Have you found a reputable grower that uses them yet? I havent. If its all about spectrum why does every book, article or video stress lumens and light penetration? Why isnt anyone using them in the mainstream? Why are there a thousand people on this very sight that bought em and went back to HID? Why do LED companies change up which leds the use every 2 months but HIDs have been the same for decades? If they are all the rage why are there at least 50 world renowned growers I can name off the top of my head that ALL use hids but you cant name 1 that uses leds?

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence my friend. And by this I mean that just because there is a shortage of grows with leds. Bullshit huh? you are calling photosynthetic active radiation bs?? Please do tell when photosynthesis active lighting became irrelevant to growing a plant.
I am not saying HIDs are not bright, they are just bright in the wrong way, they can still grow a kick ass plant because of their intensity. But the point still remains they work better to cook with than to grow because of the heat they throw off... And if you really take your lead from the mainstream then it is gonna be pretty hard to get on the cutting edge pal and thats what this tech is because led are new tech, HIDs have been adopted into indoor hort for decades so the comparison is not fair.
You will prob be surprised to hear they have been messing with the gasses in bulbs of HIDs, pretty sure phillips has something called a cmh... supposed to be pretty legit, but like you won't waste time on leds I will not waste my time on a dieing technology they are trying to give a pacemaker to keep the very lucrative market of bulb replacement....
Marinade on this for a while before you reply and do think it out, will be anxiously waiting to hear the new study proving par to be irrelevant to photosynthesis so I can throw out my glorified xmas lights and get some of your beloved rotisserie cookers...

 

[natro.hydro]

Yup, I posted in that thread yesterday - that statement re: free would be conditional, I'd give the light a solid test if it were free and they wanted unbiased reporting on it.. otherwise I'd rather experiment with reptile lighting.

Ya it is still too new new for me, though that program seems about as legit as they come, although I know you can rig something up to dim an HID ballast throughout the day, obviously not the same as changing the spectrums its throwing.

 

[bigv1976]

You are right bro. And about 5 people agree with you.

 

[natro.hydro]

LED has its place in growing, you can use it as a stand alone light, many do, I have for a while now but invested in a indagro as I think induction+led is the new way.
Oh and big you must never visit the subforum of indoor growing called led/cfl/and other lighting. No reputable grows you make me laugh, I can think of five off the top of my head, each pulling close to a g a watt. Beefbisquit comes to mind I will link his grow so you can peep his success, its all about the training you put into your plants to get an even canopy really..https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/586430-omg-beefs-again-area-51-a.html
Whatever yo I was not trying to make you convert was just trying to get you not to spew garbage to people who do not know better and might take your word to mean too much.
"Do not argue with idiots as they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" Mark Twain
Think I am gonna try this approach when it comes to people who fail to recognize lumens as a pretty useless measure of light in the horticulture world...

 

[bigv1976]

Can you give me a link or 2 for a g/ watt with leds? The only weight I could find in the thread you showed me was a wet weight from a perpetual type grow.

 

[bigv1976]

I will go watch the sports channel for an hour or so and that may give you enough time to find one somewhere.

 

[natro.hydro]

https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/600170-chronikool-z-led-organic-sog-6.html
can not remember what he gets for harvest but since you asked, this guy knows his shit about led's from what I have read. My bad I do to many dabs to remember peoples results other than my own as far as weight other than that they have impressed me, showed you beefs cuz he knows what he is talking about but is not some PHD.
You did not like beef's grow at all? just disheartened I guess to see the only thing you say back is he did not have a accurate weight, and I said close to a g a watt, anything over .6 is good in my book.

 

[natro.hydro]

Here's a competition they had in that sub forum, should have some of the info you are looking for...no need to be a dick about it, just wanted to make sure they were satisfactory since the first one did not have a dry weight, which is my fault I admit, terrible short term as I stated but I blame Mary.
https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/593351-2nd-led-party-cup-competition-19.html
And i do not need to go somewhere.. there are plenty on this site, now how about some of these so called thousands that switched back to hid after running led, personally I have not seen one but have not looked either though so if you could steer me in the right direction I would be much obliged.

 

[bigv1976]

Dude there is alot of stuff you havent seen but you still talk about it. Im done with this thread. My bottom line is this, ALL of the most well known growers in the world whether they have been growing for 5 years or 50 use HIDs and that is no coincedence. I will give you LEDs are par tuned but the fact of the matter is the intensity is nowhere close to an HID and I dont know if you heard but you need intensity to hit more than the top third of the plant. Leds are over priced and under powered and all the stuff you have to say about them looks like a copy and paste from HID huts website and all the stuff I am saying is proven by 50 years of results and yes maybe I am a sheep following the crowd but its a big crowd. In fact as far as the whos who in the MJ industry it is the whole crowd. You can tell me all about PAR and heat and lumens dont mean shit but all I say is everyones doing it and you still havent had an answer for why that is? Have a nice day and keep em green.

 

[natro.hydro]

Sorry to the op, did not mean for it to get this out of hand on your thread but this guy won't quit.
You say show you a reputable grower/ breeder, I say subcool likes em just fine for what they are, and you say he aint shit basically? dude is a very reputable breeder, published author, hell the guy has his own sub forum in organics, when you reach that status I will take your light recommendation without fight.
Thought I would give you some visual aid in coming to what will be your great awakening.

The one on the left shows how we humans see light, this is how your precious lumens are measured, notice the peak in the middle... Then we have PAR or photosynthetically active radiation, or if you did not figure it out from the photosynthetic part of the name, the light plants use for photosynthesis... Not exactly similar are they? And for the coup de grace, your hid bulbs you go on about spectral ouput graph

Hey what do you know, looks a lot like that lumen graph above... Now I wonder if they tried to match that so they could give you a big bogus number to stuff in your pants to camouflage your lil wee wee that is their light efficiency:watts used... Ready to admit defeat yet?
If not that is fine too, I could do this for awhile, pretty entertaining and I like to think I am compounding this knowledge in my own head as well as yours because nothing in this life is certain..
EDIT: Hey what do you know you wrote a reply that basically concedes I am right, and if you read I said an even canopy was the way to go with these lights not the typical xmas tree shape you get from a untrained plant... but let me guess you do not like plant training either....

 

[natro.hydro]

And not everyone is growing with hid's you dullard, I am sure there is some tard out there trying to grow plants with a white led flashlight right now cus he heard leds were the new shit. The reason everyone still uses these pos food cookers is because the market pushes them, think about it, if you make stupid amounts of money hand over fist in a 3 year time period from bulb replacements of hids and say cut that in a 3rd or less for some new tech that does not need an expensive ballast essentially making half of the existing market of products obsolete, most of which you are the producer of would you not do everything in your power to stop that new tech with negative pr campaigns and other stupid propaganda..
As far as I am concerned the new updates are reflective of the massive amounts of r and d led companies put into making their product better, the price then reflects all of the r&d. So imo once the market for these panels and the cost of producing diodes goes down you will see a fall in led pricing. Nothing significant since they still have to make money, fricking capitalists... Are you starting to see now? I can no longer be mad at you for besmirching led tech since you do not know any better when you are spoon feed bs.
Look at it this way, smoking weed used to be taboo and stupid in some peoples eyes because of what the gov't told them while blindly following it, you sir are doing no different by just putting up the blinders to new tech like led, and with that train of thought we would not be talking through this website about the topics we are...
OPEN YOUR EYES, PLEASE I BEG YOU!

 

[natro.hydro]

Again I apologize for all the bs on your thread now, if your lucky a mod will come through and remove it all, or just wait for this thread to be forgotten as many are in the newb section... If nothing else maybe you will read our bickerings and have a slightly better understanding of how light works for plants vs humans.

 

[bigv1976]

See how you spin shit to suit your purpose? I never said anything negative about Sub. I said Sub grows with HIDs. Sub and everyone else known in the industry. See I am dogging LEDs and you are dogging me. I dont care about graphs or your insults or what light a human eye can see. You still have avoided the question for the fourth time WHY ARENT THE PROS USING LEDS? Because thhey suck for flowering an MJ plant. If intensity doesnt matter why didnt they just stop at the 90 watt UFO? If lumens dont matter why does every MJ book say the do including Cervantes, Rosenthals, Subs, Escondidos, Dankos and....? Every heard of any of those guys? I am asking legitimate questions and you keep going back to PAR. You have turned the #1 used grow light in the world into a rotisserie light and such but you cant answer a basic question like who in the proffesional world of MJ growing and breeding uses these awesome lights you speak so highly of? Nobody. Why? Because they are over an priced under performing option that is light years away from producing the consistent results that an HID does. You are saying that 50 years of indoor growing research is all bullshit but LEDs are the shit. You are wrong. Its that simple. I am not even saying that LEDs arent the future all I am saying is it will be the distant future when they are a better option than 150,000 lumens from an HPS bulb. I see guys like you on here all the time. You argue shit to look intelligent and it turns into a miserable failure so you start calling names and making personal attacks. Its ok. Keep compensating dude.

 

[Anotherlover]

Only reason I have not yet tried LED is initial cost.
I can set up a 400watt HPS with reflector for about R800.
To get the same amount of energy out of a decent LED array would cost me in the range of R7000 to R14000
I won't be spending that type of cash on electricity and spare bulbs for at least 2 years of running 12/12/365.

When things go wrong I can't just pop into the closest store and buy a replacement part like I can with HPS.
Also, buying HPS can be for anything, buying an LED growlight can only be for one thing.

Not dissing LED, just saying at the moment it is ridiculously expensive.

 

[natro.hydro]

Not familiar with r sign for currency, brazilian real? Idk what leds you are looking at then since it says exchange rate is 2:1 in google and I have never seen a led unit for more than 3,000. In fact the most ridic was this thing, and it is a behemoth, not sure that is worth the money, but I am really considering trying Area 51 leds, full spectrum veg to flower and they have a new series of lights coming out this month that are supposed to be twice as efficient. As far as the bulb change, thought HIDs was every six months or you lose output? correct me if I am wrong not a user of them, striclty regurgitating what I thought I heard.

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[RIKNSTEIN]

Thanks for the input everyone! I do have a question about the lights. I am using four 26w, 4100k, 1700 lumens bulbs and I can hold one in my hand, but it is a bit hot unless I hold it in certain spots lol. I also hold my hand 1-2 inches away and it is a bit warm. Are you sure I should have my bulbs 1-2" away instead of 4-5 inches like I have now?

Get yourself some 6500k & 2700k bulbs (they're cheap at walmart) and put them at least 2-3 inches away from the plant..mix the 2 types...3-6500k to 1-2700 for veg and the opposite for flower...Here's my setup it may give you an idea or 2..I had to move 2 sets of double lights to take these pics..I have 2 double T5 HO hoods that are right on top of my babies and CFLs hanging around them...keep them close and your babies will thank you with tight dense buds (if flowering in the 60 degree range)...and REMEMBER that I'm a n00b also and these people have helped me, but it only helps IF you take their advice!!!...It's worked for me so far..