Fan Leafs. Blockers of Light Or Energy Producers???

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Slab

Slab

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Only argument that can be made for defoliation would be if the price of greens keeps rising, feta and fan leaf omelette yummie.
 
Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Gram/watt, another cannabis forum bunch of loose talk. There is no such credible measure considering a hundred factors are involved. Just more noobie fodder.

UB
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So that would be a very low gram to watt ratio you had then. Yes there are many factors but it is a simple equation you might prefer kilowatt hour to gram but your just talkin shit as usually.
Im still waiting for your big indoor plant picture if you look around you'll find one to cut and paste.
 
Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

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akula said:
He already been informed, I doubt he will start listening now. I don't remember who, but someone even went through the time to break each study down and show what the hypothesis and conclusions of each one. These studies might as well have been done on rocks and dust of Mars and he would still find a sentence or two that seemed to fit his narrative. Knowing that nobody is actually going to take the time to read them is all the ammo needed to get everyone referring to them like gospel. :wall:
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They haven't been disproved at all in one study under one condition they lost some yield But then were double in another condition.Clearly science and reading i realize they are over your head all you need is untested opinon to base your point on.

I study and try things I do it insead of just thinking it can't be done and this works very well
 
akula

akula

Active Member
Bud Brewer said:
They haven't been disproved at all in one study under one condition they lost some yield But then were double in another condition.Clearly science and reading i realize they are over your head all you need is untested opinon to base your point on.

I study and try things I do it insead of just thinking it can't be done and this works very well
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Dis-proven as to your interpretation and cherry picking quotes out of them.

Slab said:
these studies don't advocate defoliation for increasing yeild. they describe the effects of defoliation.

also how to get the same with less ( water, fertilizer etc.)

the third paper was written in 1974, wow talk about cutting edge and scientifc breakthrough

one descibes elevated CO2 levels from defoliated leaf through bovine digestion.

here is the abstract from the wheat study ; Through reduction of water demand by defoliation during the vegetative growth period of wheat, it may be possible to optimize use of soil water and in-crop rainfall for enhanced grain yield and water use efficiency.

these are not Yeild improvment studies, plenty of those out there.
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PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

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Uncle Ben said:
What's this crap about "experience"? I doubt if you were even born when I was gardening back in the early 70's.

You have not yet produced a scientifically controlled experiment conducted by an independent, non partisan, bonafide horticultural source...... and if you think I'm stupid enough to accept ANY cannabis forum testimony and anecodal evidence as other than pure conjecture, delusionary chest beating bullshit, you're crazy. Now we have folks trying to beef up their pro defoliation argument saying it decreases internodal length. It's laughable. Hate to clue you in, but calyxes aka flowers do not require direct light to develop nor are they producers of food that the plant uses for tissue production. Now, if you want to strip them just to watch them regrow, knock yourself out.

Since it's long been forgotten by all the noise on this issue, I'll repeat what a real professional, R.C. Clarke, who wrote THE book on cannabis botany and anatomy said. If you don't want to believe a bonafide professional as opposed to being drawn to a bunch of cannabis forum noobies who see what they want or expect to see, you go right on brother.

This is a excerpt on this never ending discussion that comes with every new crop of noobs that think they've discovered something kewl. The following excerpt is at least 15 years old for example posted at the first internet website forum on cannabis Marihemp.com aka cannabis.com. I moderated 6 forums FWIW.

R. C. Clarke author of Marijuana Botany: An Advanced Study, the Propagation and Breeding of Distinctive Cannabis states that there are 3 common beliefs:

1.) Large shade leaves draw energy from the flowering plant and by removing the large fan leaves surplus energy will be available and larger floral clusters will be formed,

2.) Some feel that the inhibitors of flowering , synthesized in the fan leaves during the long non-inductive days of summer, may be stored in the older leaves that were formed during the non-inductive photoperiod. Possibly, if these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will proceed to flower more quickly when the shorter days of fall trigger flowering,

3.) Large fan leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small, atrophied, interior floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light.

Few, if any, of the theories behind "leafing" have any validity.

The large fan leaves have a definite function in the growth and development of cannabis. Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth substances. They do create shade, but at the same time they are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant. Premature removal of the fan leaves may cause stunting because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced.

Most cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage and this trend continues on until senescence (death of the plant).

He also states that removing large amounts of fan leaves will also interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. Leaf removal may also cause SEX REVERSAL resulting from a metabolic imbalance.

He goes on to say that cannabis grows largest when provided with plentiful nutrients, sunlight, and water, and left alone to grow and mature naturally. It must be remembered that any alteration of the natural life cycle of cannabis will affect productivity.
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Too bad you paraphrased and left all the "possibly" and may" type of language out of the "quote":



Also, it kind of seems like this statement contradicts what you are always bashing noobs for (green leaves in flower):
Most cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage and this trend continues on until senescence (death of the plant).


So, who's right now, Uncle Ben or Mr Clarke?

 

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akula

akula

Active Member
Bud Brewer said:
Oh ya you just disproved everything lol.
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You cant use a study that was designed to help farmers in drought to continue to raise crops, that just so happened to show that if you defoliate, you use less H20, and the plant can better survive, as example of defoliation to increase yields. Yeah that pretty much proves that either your being disingenuous or unable to properly digest the information that was presented.
 
Slab

Slab

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PJ Diaz said:
Too bad you paraphrased and left all the "possibly" and may" type of language out of the "quote":



Also, it kind of seems like this statement contradicts what you are always bashing noobs for (green leaves in flower):
Most cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage and this trend continues on until senescence (death of the plant).


So, who's right now, Uncle Ben or Mr Clarke?

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They are both correct, you are really reaching with minutia.
 
Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

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The rest of them aren't you are only cherry picking what you want I posted links to the studies they all show a yield increase.
 
E

elkukupanda

Active Member
The more I read... The more I see this defoliation topic useless... Even to a molecular level.... Less leaves... Less diffusion... I'm glad scientist aren't defoliated now days..
 
akula

akula

Active Member
Bud Brewer said:
The rest of them aren't you are only cherry picking what you want I posted links to the studies they all show a yield increase.
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No they dont. In fact I cannot find one study there that is strictly talking about increased yield through defoliation.

Yes there are studies about defoliation through cow consumption and the effects of their flatulence to increase C02.

Yes there is a study that shows the effects of defoliation to put off silking in corn. What correlation do you make there?

Yes their is a study about diminishing defoliation loses, caused by insects, simulated through targeted insect defoliation to minimize yield loss. I dont think you want to use that one right? Since it part of the hypothesis is that defoliation, via insects cause damaged loss of crops because reduced biomass.

As far as I can tell, every study you listed is trying to find ways to minimize yield loss, by optimizing defoliation...not because its a super sweet gardening trick....but because defoliation is a problem certain crops are faced with in certain environments naturally.

So which one should we focus on? I am not going to waste all day rummaging through studies that have no significant value to your point.
 
Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

Well-Known Member
That bit of writing was a master piece I can see how your having trouble understanding just read everything three times and work at you'll get it one day.
it might even be easier if you just try it then you could see for yourself that would help you understand
 
akula

akula

Active Member
Bud Brewer said:
That bit of writing was a master piece I can see how your having trouble understanding just read everything three times and work at you'll get it one day.
it might even be easier if you just try it then you could see for yourself that would help you understand
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Was that comment directed toward me? You're giving me grammar lessons? Sweet, people in glass houses dude (and your house is pretty flimsy glass bud).

But more importantly, I guess this means you are unwilling/unable to direct us to the studies that are germane to your position.
 
Kite High

Kite High

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akula said:
Was that comment directed toward me? You're giving me grammar lessons? Sweet, people in glass houses dude (and your house is pretty flimsy glass bud).

But more importantly, I guess this means you are unwilling/unable to direct us to the studies that are germane to your position.
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I like you...you smart
 
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