Plasma Lighting, New 500 watt systems to be released soon!!!

[acidking]

Luxim, the company that provides the 300 watt Plasma technology used in Gavita's Pro 300 LEP, and Chameleon's Solar Genesis I, is releasing a 500 watt version of their Plasma lighting. The 500 watt light appears to have the same spectrum as their current 300 watt system, but produces 45,000 lumens compared to the 23,000 lumens of the 300 watt model. That's 95% more lumens total, and 18% more lumens per watt.

I know the grow results have been amazing in veg with the 300w, and the final quality has been equally impressive... it's just the weight that's been lacking. Hopefully this new light will solve that weakness.

The lighting manufactures are aware it's in the pipeline, and anxiously awaiting its arrival. It has been hinted that the new system will likely be available for purchase in the 1st half of 2013, possibly sooner. Summer will be so much cooler with the proper lighting.

Cheers,
Acidking

If anybody is growing with the current 300w plasma systems, feel free to post your experiences and pictures here.

 

[chazbolin]

Hiya Acid!

You appear to have the inside track here. I'm not sure why we're talking up an in increase in lumens. Those are visual spectrums not plant spectrums. Please explain how this benefits our plants.

For growers currently running the 300 watt version of the Luxim LEP it's suggested, to pick up weight, they add a second R/FR/IR source (while also running the 300 watt LEP) like the 1000 watt Phillips HPS lamp (which runs @ 1,200 degrees F) for flower since the LEP alone produces little in these regions. And that gets a bit pricey.

http://download.p4c.philips.com/l4b/9/928196305116_eu/928196305116_eu_pss_aen.pdf

No disputing the LEP is a great veg lamp but does the new 500 watt LEP than eliminate the need for a separate flowering lamp? If so I'll do a side by side.

Thanks for sharing

 

[acidking]

Hiya Acid!
You appear to have the inside track here. I'm not sure why we're talking up an in increase in lumens. Those are visual spectrums not plant spectrums. Please explain how this benefits our plants.

Because it's the only measurement relating to light output that they list on their site, that and many other bulb manufactures only list lumens as well, such as EYE Hortilux. The increased lumen output of the 500 watt plasma puts it's lumen output, per watt, solidly between MH and HPS... but with a much better spectrum than even Dual-Arc bulbs are capable of. The 300 watt has a lumen output per watt that is slightly lower than MH.

Because of Plasma's fairly uniform spectrum (no spike in the visual range) the amount of light being increased in the PAR range should be similar to the increase in the visual range. You will notice that both the Hortilux Blue and the Philips CMH both spike in the visual spectrum, meaning their lumen rating is even less of an indicator of PAR watts than the Plasma's.

The Following charts compare the Plasma's spectrum to the Hortilux Blue, and the Philips MasterColor CMH... two bulbs with arguably the best (all around) spectrums for growing. The 500 watt Plasma puts out more lumens per watt than the 400 watt versions of the Hortilux or Philips bulbs, this was not the case with the 300 watt version. In both the following charts the plasma has a much higher relative energy spread than the Hortilux Blue and Philips CMH bulbs.

The 500 watt Plasma should have minimal cooling requirements compared to the 400-600 watt bulbs that they are designed to replace. Good news for everyone tired of running their Air Conditioners full blast during the summer.

Cheers,
Acidking

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Why would anyone buy this when sulfur plasma is right around the corner for consumer release........and the new philips elite agro 315w CMH bulb fairs quite a bit better than it's older cmh bulbs

 

[chazbolin]

Why would anyone buy this when sulfur plasma is right around the corner for consumer release........and the new philips elite agro 315w CMH bulb fairs quite a bit better than it's older cmh bulbs

PSUAGRO; FYI the Luxim is a sulfur plasma technology.

AcidKing; Based on your response I was not able to determine if the new 500 watt version would be the only lamp I would need from veg-flower. Also you state that the 500 watt plasma is designed to replace a 400-600 watt lamp. What did you mean by that?

 

[PSUAGRO.]

PSUAGRO; FYI the Luxim is a sulfur plasma technology.

AcidKing; Based on your response I was not able to determine if the new 500 watt version would be the only lamp I would need from veg-flower. Also you state that the 500 watt plasma is designed to replace a 400-600 watt lamp. What did you mean by that?

Shit^^^you are correct it is a sulfur technology/idk what i was thinking...........but I meant this tech http://www.plasma-i.com/ <<gonna be a good/maybe

 

[puffenuff]

If I ever give plasma a whirl, it will be from plasma-i. it's really disgusting how many lights I want to try out.

Still too many leds to try and also want to give induction a shot at some point.

 

[Endur0xX]

If I ever give plasma a whirl, it will be from plasma-i. it's really disgusting how many lights I want to try out.

Still too many leds to try and also want to give induction a shot at some point.

Dont you want to stop spending money on lights at some point!!!

 

[puffenuff]

Dont you want to stop spending money on lights at some point!!!

Don't be silly! I'll be upgrading yearly or every other year as long as the technology keeps improving. I'm just as bad with other stuff like TVs and computers. And if I don't spend my money, the lady will...so it's either lights or heels and she was way more heels than I have lights.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

If I ever give plasma a whirl, it will be from plasma-i. it's really disgusting how many lights I want to try out.

Still too many leds to try and also want to give induction a shot at some point.

I know your anti HID but you gotta be impressed with these specs http://gel-usa.com/pdf/CeramaTek_315w.pdf allot of growers should be considering this bulb/ballast combo for future grows........95% lumen maintenance at 20000 hrs/120lm per watt on a CMH! direct competition with leds and efdls for longevity too....philips really hit this outta the park.............still in testing! Just let me buy one dammit!!

edit...check the ballast specs too........automatic self dimming with temp increases/photo cell/can run the remote ballast up to 85 feet/ballast consumes 15w!/etc.....sorry bin excited for this for a long time and my money's ready

 

[chazbolin]

Because it's the only measurement relating to light output that they list on their site, that and many other bulb manufactures only list lumens as well, such as EYE Hortilux. The increased lumen output of the 500 watt plasma puts it's lumen output, per watt, solidly between MH and HPS... but with a much better spectrum than even Dual-Arc bulbs are capable of. The 300 watt has a lumen output per watt that is slightly lower than MH.

Because of Plasma's fairly uniform spectrum (no spike in the visual range) the amount of light being increased in the PAR range should be similar to the increase in the visual range. You will notice that both the Hortilux Blue and the Philips CMH both spike in the visual spectrum, meaning their lumen rating is even less of an indicator of PAR watts than the Plasma's.

The Following charts compare the Plasma's spectrum to the Hortilux Blue, and the Philips MasterColor CMH... two bulbs with arguably the best (all around) spectrums for growing. The 500 watt Plasma puts out more lumens per watt than the 400 watt versions of the Hortilux or Philips bulbs, this was not the case with the 300 watt version. In both the following charts the plasma has a much higher relative energy spread than the Hortilux Blue and Philips CMH bulbs.

The 500 watt Plasma should have minimal cooling requirements compared to the 400-600 watt bulbs that they are designed to replace. Good news for everyone tired of running their Air Conditioners full blast during the summer.

Cheers,
Acidking

Your statement that 'Because it's the only measurement relating to light output that they list on their site, that and many other bulb manufactures only list lumens as well, such as EYE Hortilux.' would only be valid in a comparison where both emitted spectrums were exactly identical.

Here's where manufacturers who reference only lumens values, such as plasma, solidly make the point that 'Lumens are for Humans';

Light emitting plasma has an output that is a fairly good resemblance to that of natural sunlight, except it falls short in the outer red regions. Due to the similar spectral output to sunlight, growers quickly latched on to this technology thinking it should make a great grow light. The main problem is that they have too much green, while broad spectrum is necessary and green should be part of a grow light spectrum; it is the least sensitive for energy absorption. If there is too much green light, its energy cannot be effectively used resulting in inefficiencies.

With the plasma light the proportion of red energy to the overall energy of the lights output is low as a result of the excessive green energy. This makes it necessary to either add significantly more plasma light intensity or to supplement with a light that has strong red output. Either way any possible efficiency gains have been lost. 500 Watt plasma would help overcome some of the flowering issues, but at the cost of consuming more Watts. If the spectrum of the 300 and 500 watt lamps are the same it is fair to compare Lumen ratings and to conclude that the 500 watt unit is more efficient. But you cannot compare grow lights on a Lumen per Lumen basis if the spectrums are different.

The other thing to keep in mind with Plasma light lumen ratings is that green light has the strongest sensitivity in human vision and is given the greatest proportion of credit on the Lumen sensitivity weighting scale. This means that any light with a lot of green content is likely to have a strong Lumen rating, but green is the least sensitive region on the PAR sensitivity curve, so its added contribution is somewhat meaningless in a plant light.

 

[Endur0xX]

Don't be silly! I'll be upgrading yearly or every other year as long as the technology keeps improving. I'm just as bad with other stuff like TVs and computers. And if I don't spend my money, the lady will...so it's either lights or heels and she was way more heels than I have lights.

man you are a pure hobbyist!! I feel like now that I have found good LED lights I can just do my thing and work on my growing skills! But you ve got good reasons, you are addicted haha...I gotta say, I never say a word when she spends money frivolously so that she cant say anything when I go get my package at the post office hehe.

 

[chazbolin]

I know your anti HID but you gotta be impressed with these specs http://gel-usa.com/pdf/CeramaTek_315w.pdf allot of growers should be considering this bulb/ballast combo for future grows........95% lumen maintenance at 20000 hrs/120lm per watt on a CMH! direct competition with leds and efdls for longevity too....philips really hit this outta the park.............still in testing! Just let me buy one dammit!!

edit...check the ballast specs too........automatic self dimming with temp increases/photo cell/can run the remote ballast up to 85 feet/ballast consumes 15w!/etc.....sorry bin excited for this for a long time and my money's ready

Hiya PSUAGRO! I see your excited by this new technology and I do like that they produce a broader spectrum into the red however I would like to point out that the lamp still utilizes halides which means they suffer under the weight of spectral shift as measured in any 3, 4 or 7 point MacAdams ellipse testing. Allow me to explain, than research the link below so at least you'll be making an informed decision if you decide to go this route.

My issue with metal halides, which is what the CermaTek is, a ceramic metal halide, is going to be spectrum stability and color shift. There is an ANSI standard that rates lamps and compares different technologies under their ability to stay stable in spectral output over 3,4 or 7 points depending on the mfg test method. In all of these tests the halides are unstable in that within the first 200 hours kelvin will rise then at 1000 hours it's falling. By 40% of a halides rated life it's vastly different on the UV-B spectrum than when it was first struck.

This ANSI standard is called the MacAdams ellipse and is most noticeable when you go in a big box store and notice that the high bay metal halides may vary in terms of the color you see which is a result of different relamp times for these fixtures. They were not all done at once. When applied to plant spectral stability this is important since the use of halides creates inconsistent plant responses when all other factors are applied equally which historically suggests (by, go figure, the retail hydro shops) growers relamp at 20-40% of the rated lamp life to maintain optimum UV-B spectrum.

'Color Consistency refers to the average amount of variation in chromaticity among a batch of supposedly identical lamp samples. Generally speaking, the more complicated the physics and chemistry of the light source, the more difficult it is to manufacture with consistent color properties. This is why consistency is a problem for discharge light sources, particularly metal halide. Different samples from the same batch of metal halide lamps may exhibit different chromaticities. To limit this variation, the lighting industry uses a color consistency system based on MacAdam ellipses (Wyszecki and Stiles 1982).

'Color stability is substantially different for metal halide lamps than for CFLs. Figure 12 presents color stability measurements for both probe-start and pulse-start metal halide lamps from two manufacturers. The data were chosen to illustrate the measured color shift over 8000 hours of operation, 40% of rated lamp life. The color shift over time for both manufacturers is much larger than a 4-step MacAdam ellipse, except for the pulse-start lamps from manufacturer B. Therefore, over their lifespan, these metal halide lamps will shift in color much more than typical CFLs. So, as noted by respondents to NLPIP's survey (Table 1), lamp type can play an important role in defining a light source's color characteristics.'

Read the first and second page of this report to see the reference tables @ http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/nlpip/lightinganswers/lightsources/whatisColorConsistency.asp

I caveat this with I've never ran a CMH grow but the properties of Halogen Metal Halides are well established and I hate relamping to just reline the hydro food chain wallets because it's an improvement in the red spectrum's from straight metal halide technology. It'll be interesting to see how the mfg's of CMH fare under the ANSI standards for spectral wavelength stability.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Yeah your right about the color shift.....all hid suffer from this....even with my old cmh bulbs, you ran them vert or horz their was an obvious shift in the light at different positions but regardless it grew some of the best weed I've personally done.........

the new philips elite agro 315w bulb seems to have fixed the shift somewhat(it will never be completely removed due to the nature of the tech) at less than 5%, according to the manufacturer

In the end if it works like this https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=61&pictureid=834559 who can argue with it, best cmh grow I've seen and this is with the old retrowhites the new bulbs gets around 1.95 PPF/w!!!!!! which even beats the 1000w gavita.......It's the closest to bringing the sun indoors as of 2012 tech......good luck friend.........


oh yeah his harvest pic from the same grow (2 -400w philips cmh) https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=61&pictureid=834562 fucking ridiculous

 

[Redoctober]

Now THIS is my kinda thread!!!!
I always wondered about the difference between CMH and plasma. I figured plasma was superior, but the spectrums are so similar that I thought CMH might be a cheap way to get the plasma effect without spending "plasma" money. But like the plasma, I always thought CMH would do best in conjunction with a HPS. Even Gavita says in their video that the plasma can be used for veg but is not designed to be a standalone flowering lamp. They have been pretty tight lipped about the new 500W plasma and I didn't honestly think it would be out for several years. I still don't know if it is going to be designed to be a standalone flowering light, but perhaps. It'd sure be nice to be onto new technology and put HID's in the past.

PSUAGRO, that's a very impressive pic! I'll have to find and read that actual thread. So the grower used CMH exclusively in flower and got that result?

I was looking at the Ushio hybrid lamp. It seems like it'd deliver a similar effect to a CMH, but I think with any of these bulbs, you are dividing your output between red and blue instead of heavily weighting in the red for flowering. More blue will produce more trichomes and tighter nodes but probably at the expense of yield. I am in the market for a new light and there's so much out there to choose from, but I think I have my eye on the Digilux HPS enhanced blue. It puts out a lot of light, has a nice red spike in what looks like the proper place (660nm, hard to tell from the chart though), and extra blue; not quite as much or as balanced as a dual arc or chm, but it has a little something for everyone. Any of you guys have any experience with the Digilux?

 

[hyroot]

I just got a free brand new digilux for my 1000 watt. Never used one before. It has an appearance of white light similar to white led's . Now this is the first hps where I have personally seen mininimal spectral shift. Going from par t5 to hps. I just added 3 girls to flower last thursday night. Popped in the bulb on friday before they woke up. Under hortilux and ushio hps, they would be droopy for the first few days to a week and little growth if any.

This time from when they first awoke in 12/12, they have been perky right off the bat and have grown 6 inches and 3 nodes in the last 3 days. Shooting out pistils already. These are my master kush's which veg very slowly too. Also I am main-lining the plants. They have vegged for a little over 2 months.

Aside from heat and power bill, for the first time I like my hps as much as my par t5 and led, for as far as spectrum goes. Other plants, buds have swollen tremendously in those few days too. Imo spectral shift can be controlled or reduced irregardless of tech as long as there are similar spectrums in veg to flower. I am looking forward to trying a par 420 too though.


http://www.randmsupply.com/images/link/Digilux.pdf

I emailed R&M supply and discount hydro on friday asking for an spd with numbers. Haven't heard back.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Now THIS is my kinda thread!!!!
I always wondered about the difference between CMH and plasma. I figured plasma was superior, but the spectrums are so similar that I thought CMH might be a cheap way to get the plasma effect without spending "plasma" money. But like the plasma, I always thought CMH would do best in conjunction with a HPS. Even Gavita says in their video that the plasma can be used for veg but is not designed to be a standalone flowering lamp. They have been pretty tight lipped about the new 500W plasma and I didn't honestly think it would be out for several years. I still don't know if it is going to be designed to be a standalone flowering light, but perhaps. It'd sure be nice to be onto new technology and put HID's in the past.

PSUAGRO, that's a very impressive pic! I'll have to find and read that actual thread. So the grower used CMH exclusively in flower and got that result?

I was looking at the Ushio hybrid lamp. It seems like it'd deliver a similar effect to a CMH, but I think with any of these bulbs, you are dividing your output between red and blue instead of heavily weighting in the red for flowering. More blue will produce more trichomes and tighter nodes but probably at the expense of yield. I am in the market for a new light and there's so much out there to choose from, but I think I have my eye on the Digilux HPS enhanced blue. It puts out a lot of light, has a nice red spike in what looks like the proper place (660nm, hard to tell from the chart though), and extra blue; not quite as much or as balanced as a dual arc or chm, but it has a little something for everyone. Any of you guys have any experience with the Digilux?

Yes very impressive grow............the grower "pinball wizard" at ICM@G used two 400w philips cmh in a 4x4(overkill lol) throughout to produce those results.....keep in mind that his strain(not sure, but ill guess) was probably his own carefully selected cross of BIG BUD which can get big under other lighting as well, but he did say that this particular run was the best.........

I also want to specify that the new elite agro 315w cmh has a general "useful" life of 20,000 hrs.....it is ONLY with the revolutionary Ceramatek ballast(california) that it will achieve 50000 hrs of "useful" life and a 95% lumen maintanance at 20000hrs...........the bulb also comes in two versions 3100k and 4200k (id go w 3100k IMO).....this bulb/ballast combo is designed for street lighting retrofits(strange as it's a hort bulb).................happy shopping

 

[Redoctober]

I just got a free brand new digilux for my 1000 watt. Never used one before. It has an appearance of white light similar to white led's . Now this is the first hps where I have personally seen mininimal spectral shift. Going from par t5 to hps. I just added 3 girls to flower last thursday night. Popped in the bulb on friday before they woke up. Under hortilux and ushio hps, they would be droopy for the first few days to a week and little growth if any. This time from when they first awoke in 12/12, they have been perky right off the bat and have grown 6 inches and 3 nodes in the last 3 days. Shooting out pistils already. These are my master kush's which veg very slowly too. Also I am main-lining the plants. They have vegged for a little over 2 months. Aside from heat and power bill, for the first time I like my hps as much as my par t5 and led, for as far as spectrum goes. Other plants, buds have swollen tremendously in those few days too. Imo spectral shift can be controlled or reduced irregardless of tech as long as there are similar spectrums in veg to flower. I am looking forward to trying a par 420 too though. http://www.randmsupply.com/images/link/Digilux.pdf I emailed R&M supply and discount hydro on friday asking for an spd with numbers. Haven't heard back.

Now that's exactly what I like to hear And bonus that you got it for free! I am assuming that the bulb you are using is this HPS bulb: http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/digilux-600w-hps-grow-bulb-enhanced-blue-spectrum-p-2986.html

Edit: sorry, about that, I fixed the link

What does main-lining your plants mean? Did you just watch a behind-the-music on Motley Crue?...Because I wouldn't try to copy those guys

I agree, some plants don't like spectral shift and may stall a bit, other strains don't seem to mind. I am definitely psyched to try that Digilux though. It's not quite full spectrum, but it's like half way between an HPS and a CMH.

 

[Redoctober]

Yes very impressive grow............the grower "pinball wizard" at ICM@G used two 400w philips cmh in a 4x4(overkill lol) throughout to produce those results.....keep in mind that his strain(not sure, but ill guess) was probably his own carefully selected cross of BIG BUD which can get big under other lighting as well, but he did say that this particular run was the best.........



I also want to specify that the new elite agro 315w cmh has a general "useful" life of 20,000 hrs.....it is ONLY with the revolutionary Ceramatek ballast(california) that it will achieve 50000 hrs of "useful" life and a 95% lumen maintanance at 20000hrs...........the bulb also comes in two versions 3100k and 4200k (id go w 3100k IMO).....this bulb/ballast combo is designed for street lighting retrofits(strange as it's a hort bulb).................happy shopping

I will definitely look up that grow, thanks! I'm curious about that elite agro light. 2 400 watters may seem like overkill, but one time I read an article in Urban Grower magazine I think by a grower calling himself "Bilbo" who literally grew the biggest single bud I've ever seen. It was a single cola that was about the size of a 5 foot Christmas tree. It sounds ridiculous but he said that the way you do something like that is to do just what you said, go overkill with the lights. I think I remember him saying he had 6000 watts on that one plant alone. This is of course totally impractical, but I think he was just doing it as an experiment to see how big of a bud he could grow. I'll try to find the article. Most of us on the other hand, are trying to go in the other direction...using as few watts as possible to produce your target result. I don't know if CMH alone can outproduce HPS watt for watt, but it'd sure be an interesting experiment to do a side by side with equivalent wattage's. And ultimately do that for plasma as well when these new 500W plasmas hit the market.

Btw, I read an article a while back saying that eventually all street lights will eventually be replaced by plasma bulbs when the technology gets cheap enough, because they are so energy efficient and consume far less power to give the same brightness. It would cut a municipalities power bill by a ton.

 

[hyroot]

Now that's exactly what I like to hear And bonus that you got it for free! I am assuming that the bulb you are using is this HPS bulb: http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/digilux-600w-hps-grow-bulb-enhanced-blue-spectrum-p-2986.html

Edit: sorry, about that, I fixed the link

What does main-lining your plants mean? Did you just watch a behind-the-music on Motley Crue?...Because I wouldn't try to copy those guys

I agree, some plants don't like spectral shift and may stall a bit, other strains don't seem to mind. I am definitely psyched to try that Digilux though. It's not quite full spectrum, but it's like half way between an HPS and a CMH.

yessir that is the hps bulb I am using but a 1000 watt.



https://www.rollitup.org/subcools-old-school-organics/542308-main-lining-thread.html