Marijuana Legalization : Day One

[ChesusRice]

The only thing fallacious as you put it is the big bad government getting involved in peoples lives in far too many areas they have no bussiness in. The state law argument is false, not in entirety but still in many cases does not apply. This issue is political, and these attacks are politically motivated. Semolina Pilchard climbing the Eiffel Tower. - the attacks not you. Oaksterdam is an example.

oaksterdam and every dispensarie agreed to operate within the law
and there is the problem

Make weed legal to possess illegal to sell and there will not be anymore busts
I gaurantee you oaksterdam violated the law in some way

 

[Moses Mobetta]

oaksterdam and every dispensarie agreed to operate within the law
and there is the problem

Make weed legal to possess illegal to sell and there will not be anymore busts
I gaurantee you oaksterdam violated the law in some way

If a Law is unjust, A man is not only right to disobey it, He is obligated to do so. - Thomas Jefferson

 

[bedspirit]

First you invoke Godwins law
Then you make a falacious argument

The dispensaries getting busted are getting busted for a reason. They are out of compliance with state law

Which brings me to this point
Make weed legal to possess and grow
Illegal to sell
The whole medical marijuana iniative is bullshit
It is not a foot in the door. It is a impediment to what really needs to be done
legalize the possession of weed

i never said he was shutting them all down. His administration is cracking down on them though, especially recently:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/07/medical-marijuana-colorado_n_1753580.html?utm_hp_ref=marijuana
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/06/medical-marijuana-crackdo_n_1746569.html?utm_hp_ref=marijuana
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/18/obama-war-on-weed-richard-lee-oaksterdam-raid_n_1427435.html

When he was running, he gave everyone the impression that he wasn't going to go after dispensaries. When asked what the fuck he thinks he's doing he said this:

"What I specifically said was that we were not going to prioritize prosecutions of persons who are using medical marijuana," Obama said. "I never made a commitment that somehow we were going to give carte blanche to large-scale producers and operators of marijuana -- and the reason is, because it's against federal law."
The president continued: "I can't nullify congressional law. I can't ask the Justice Department to say, 'Ignore completely a federal law that's on the books.' What I can say is, 'Use your prosecutorial discretion and properly prioritize your resources to go after things that are really doing folks damage.' As a consequence, there haven't been prosecutions of users of marijuana for medical purposes."​

So, you can see that this is not an issue of dispensaries being in violation of state law. If it were a case of state law being violated, the state would be the one shutting them down, not the feds.

 

[pottscreek]

John deer, Case, Caterpillar, stock up on inventory, parts, hire laid off employees.

5000 Welders needed for Bio Mass Power plant construction.

Farmers no longer paid tax dollars for not growing crops.

Environment improves as Hemp replaces Hydrocarbons in our lives.

Big Oil, Pharma, Chemical, will shift profits and invest in making their products safer.

Private Prisons fail, sorry.

Welcome to my day one.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Well Kynes
you just stuck your foot in your mouth
which in your case is hard to do
becuase in this case
Your head is up your ass

thats how i quit two years ago, dark choclate and oranges for 2 weeks instead of smokes, then bam. youre out. i smoked for more than 20 years, 2 packs a day at the end, it's not hard to quit if you throw it overboard. i still miss my pipe, but not the difficulty breathing, or the morning lungers.

you can quit if you want it. i wouldnt trust the chemistry of the e-cigs, last i heard the devices and most of their chemical inhalants are made by the good people in chang an and guandong (where they make cheap office furniture, poison baby formula and counterfeit eggs)

alternately growing your own tobacco is shockingly easy. hang it to dry for a few days and then roast it in the oven for a few hours at 200 degrees with the door open (cheap flue cure) and you can smoke chem free tobacco.

 

[ChesusRice]

thats how i quit two years ago, dark choclate and oranges for 2 weeks instead of smokes, then bam. youre out. i smoked for more than 20 years, 2 packs a day at the end, it's not hard to quit if you throw it overboard. i still miss my pipe, but not the difficulty breathing, or the morning lungers.

you can quit if you want it. i wouldnt trust the chemistry of the e-cigs, last i heard the devices and most of their chemical inhalants are made by the good people in chang an and guandong (where they make cheap office furniture, poison baby formula and counterfeit eggs)

alternately growing your own tobacco is shockingly easy. hang it to dry for a few days and then roast it in the oven for a few hours at 200 degrees with the door open (cheap flue cure) and you can smoke chem free tobacco.

Everythign you said is correct except for the quitting part. For me this has worked out best.
And actually most of the e cig ingredients are made here
The flavoring is made here. but most people who DIY actually like the chinese stuff better

The e cig hardware is all made in china with some good units produced here
But again
Most people prefer the chinese stuff
Im using a joyetech eco c twist
I vape homemade juice at 4 volts thru 1.25 ohm cartomizers
It takes care of all cravings and I save huge money
As far as health concerns
It is safer than cigarettes because there is no smoke
although this has not been evaluated by the FDA

 

[Dr Kynes]

oaksterdam and every dispensarie agreed to operate within the law
and there is the problem

Make weed legal to possess illegal to sell and there will not be anymore busts
I gaurantee you oaksterdam violated the law in some way

so all we have to do is repeal the controlled substances act and dismantle the FDA, easy!

im sure the left wont fight tooth and nail to protect the institution that "guarantees food safety" with their mighty army of invisible inspectors and brilliant teams of scientists who determined that cannabis was a dangerous narcotic in the first place.

with all my years in agriculture, and several years in bottling plants and food packing houses i never once saw an inspector from the fda, the closest i came to an inspector was the rabbi who stopped in regularly to ensure we were keeping kosher.

the fda doesnt protect shit, they spend all their time in washington lobbying for more phantom inspectors to ensure that they can pocket more money.

but im sure youll defend them vehemently because pat robertson also says they are shit (even a stopped clock ehh?)

 

[Dr Kynes]

Everythign you said is correct except for the quitting part. For me this has worked out best.
And actually most of the e cig ingredients are made here
The flavoring is made here. but most people who DIY actually like the chinese stuff better

The e cig hardware is all made in china with some good units produced here
But again
Most people prefer the chinese stuff
Im using a joyetech eco c twist
I vape homemade juice at 4 volts thru 1.25 ohm cartomizers
It takes care of all cravings and I save huge money
As far as health concerns
It is safer than cigarettes because there is no smoke
although this has not been evaluated by the FDA

really homey you can quit, lotsa people have done it, including me. and i was what you might call an "ultra" smoker, 2 packs a day plus a pipe in the evenings and cigars at the roadhouse.

if you like it, thats cool, but its still gonna do shit long term, nicotine is not a health potion.

 

[ChesusRice]

so all we have to do is repeal the controlled substances act and dismantle the FDA, easy!

im sure the left wont fight tooth and nail to protect the institution that "guarantees food safety" with their mighty army of invisible inspectors and brilliant teams of scientists who determined that cannabis was a dangerous narcotic in the first place.

with all my years in agriculture, and several years in bottling plants and food packing houses i never once saw an inspector from the fda, the closest i came to an inspector was the rabbi who stopped in regularly to ensure we were keeping kosher.

the fda doesnt protect shit, they spend all their time in washington lobbying for more phantom inspectors to ensure that they can pocket more money.

but im sure youll defend them vehemently because pat robertson also says they are shit (even a stopped clock ehh?)

USDA is going to be in the packing houses

 

[bedspirit]

so all we have to do is repeal the controlled substances act and dismantle the FDA, easy!

im sure the left wont fight tooth and nail to protect the institution that "guarantees food safety" with their mighty army of invisible inspectors and brilliant teams of scientists who determined that cannabis was a dangerous narcotic in the first place.

with all my years in agriculture, and several years in bottling plants and food packing houses i never once saw an inspector from the fda, the closest i came to an inspector was the rabbi who stopped in regularly to ensure we were keeping kosher.

the fda doesnt protect shit, they spend all their time in washington lobbying for more phantom inspectors to ensure that they can pocket more money.

but im sure youll defend them vehemently because pat robertson also says they are shit (even a stopped clock ehh?)

This is not consistent with my experience. I ran a shipping port for 15 years where we rented space to some food processors. The USDA rented space from us as well with two full time inspectors. They inspected so much crap it required us to staff extra employees to cater to them. In addition to those stooges, we had surprise inspections of our facility and of the facilities of the businesses we rented space to. Things only got worse after Homeland Security got involved. They had a bunch more requirement we had to comply with.

While I generally don't have a problem with the government regulating industry, I can certainly understand people's frustration with it. Although I can tell you that if you saw food processed in a USDA certified facility and food processed in one not certified. You would surely prefer to eat food from the certified one. So, perhaps the consumers win in the end.

 

[Dr Kynes]

USDA is going to be in the packing houses

nope, none of them are anywhere.

FDA for bottling plants, and i never seen one. i worked in the lab and the sterilization/food safety section of the plant for 4 years.

the usda is supposed to inspect packing houses, canneries, slaughterhouses etc but they dont. the usda never shows up until somebody gets the "chocolate rain" dysentery or ebola.

i could grow carrots in raw human waste and sell them as "Organic" with a big fat USDA logo on the bags still dripping with raw sewage and they wouldnt do shit for years unless somebody croaks.

actually san francisco did just that for years, and still never got "caught" by the fda usda or the epa

in 2009 a group called Chez Panisse (after a tony frog restaurant) led by a bitch named Alic Waters (the cook at said frog eat-em-up joint) teamed up with the San Francisco Public Utilities Commission to set up "Organic Gardens" in schools,, but not in SF, in Oakland.
the entire scheme was a plan to get rid of what the SFPUC euphemistically calls "Organic Bio-Solid Fertilizer" Thats a fancy name for the stuff that settles out of sewage treatment plants. it is banned by the USDA the EPA and FDA for use in any agriculture that is for human consumption as it contains VERY high levels of everything that gets washed down drains including complex hydrocarbons, ptfe heavy metals dioxins pcbs and fucking shittons of chromium. SFPUC had so much of it that they needed to move it, but they couldnt SELL it as fertilizer so they decided to give it away. once the people of SF found out what the SFPUC wanted them to put in their gardens they declined the offer of free "Organic Bio-Solid Fertilizer". enter Chez Pannise and the Oakland School District. Alice Waters (of Chez Pannise) teamed up with her socialite professional rich bitch and SFPUC buddy who's name escapes me, and they moved the "Organic Bio-Solid Fertilizer" to Oakland for kids to grow vegetables in as a school project (rather like mrs Obama's school garden program but with toxic waste) alice waters and her rich bitch buddy knew what the stuff was,, and that the epa fda and usda all said no to their idea on principle (but not in specific) so they did it anyway. for over a year and a half Oaklands school children (predominantly poor and black) were playing in toxic waste from san francisco with the direct involvement of the SFPUC,, it's board (including alice waters buddy) and the fancy frog diner chez panisse and it's head cook and bottle washer alice waters.

the entire fucking show was disclosed by an investigative reporter, who was then threatened with lolsuits, slander charges, defamation of character, restraint of trade and all the other cool ways lawyers have of bringing a case when they have no case. dude stood strong on truth , and eventually his entire story got yanked off the interwebs as part of a settlement. only little pieces remain, but the SFPUC, alice waters, her SFPUC board member rich bitch buddy and the chez pannisse organization still havent been charged with any wrongdoing despite violating epa fda and usda regulations, the clean water act and numerous other laws to protect the environment (but apparently not black kids) from toxic waste dumping.

http://www.berkeleyside.com/2010/03/31/alice-waters-in-firing-line-over-toxic-sewage-sludge/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/apr/01/alice-waters-sewage-fertiliser

http://www.organicconsumers.org/sludge.cfm

im not usually one to side with the econauts on matters of agriculture but this time they were spot on. especially with the chromium levels in "Organic Bio-solid Fertilizer" just about any plant wee can eat will suck up shittons of chromium while it grows, and can easily poison people who eat them, especially vegans and vegetarians who eat more of that shit than sensible carnivores. this is why the EPA FDA and USDA prohibit it's use in fertilizers for human food, it is only allowed for non food crops (cotton, alfalfa etc) but the SFPUC did it, deliberately and with particular malice towards black poor kids in another city. still not criminal charges have been filed.

the USDA EPA and FDA are stuffed shirts choosing only to prosecute shallow pocket easy targets for headlines while they ignore the big polluters who would defend themselves.

 

[ChesusRice]

Milorganite is the trademark of a biosolids fertilizer produced by the Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District. The District captures wastewater from the metropolitan Milwaukee area, including local industries. This water is then treated at the Jones Island Water Reclamation Facility in Milwaukee, Wisconsin with microbes to digest nutrients that are found in it. Cleaned water is then returned to Lake Michigan. The resulting microbes are then dried at temperatures ranging from 900⁰-1200⁰F. Surviving pathogens are unlikely and daily tests confirm the absence of pathogens. The Milorganite program is one of the world’s largest recycling efforts; the low impact formulation was designed to recycle valuable nutrients for use on turf and gardens, reducing the need for manufactured nutrients or mined materials for fertilization. Milorganite contains virtually no salts, so it never burns plants – even in the hottest temperatures and driest conditions. You also don’t have to water it in; it will stay in the soil ready to work when moisture comes later. Each application feeds for 8-10 weeks, resulting in fewer applications.
Heat dried biosolids contain slow release organic nitrogen, largely water insoluble phosphorus bound with iron and aluminum and high organic matter.[SUP][1][/SUP] Milorganite releases 85% of its nitrogen slowly as your turf grows, generating balanced growth. Milorganite’s 4% Iron enhances the color of your turf throughout the 8-10 week. Milorganite is sold throughout the United States, Canada, and the Caribbean as a golf course and home lawn and garden fertilizer. The name Milorganite is a contraction of the phrase Milwaukee Organic Nitrogen, and was the result of a 1925 naming contest held in National Fertilizer Magazine. Raising taxes for public health was relatively controversial in the early 1900s. In 1911, reform minded socialists were elected on a platform calling for construction of a wastewater treatment plant to protect against water borne pathogens.[SUP][2][/SUP] Experiments showed that heat dried activated sludge pellets "compared favorably with standard organic materials such as dried blood, tankage, fish scap, and cottonseed meal."[SUP][3][/SUP] Sales to golf courses, turf farms and flower growers began in 1926.[SUP][4][/SUP] Milorganite was popularized during the 1930s and 1940s before inorganic urea became available to homeowners after WWII. University research confirms anecdotal evidence that applying Milorganite on lawns and near plants deters deer due to its odor. However, the manufacturer cannot market Milorganite as a deer repellent because it is not registered as a "pesticide." Therefore, repelling hungry deer from Hostas remains an "off-label" use. [SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP] Milorganite is tested daily for the presence of heavy metals and pathogens. Milorganite surpasses the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) "Exceptional Quality" criteria, which establishes the strictest concentration limits in the fertilizer industry for heavy metals, allowing Milorganite to be used on food crops. Milorganite is also certified by the USDA as a bio-based product since it is derived from renewable materials.

 

[Dr Kynes]

This is not consistent with my experience. I ran a shipping port for 15 years where we rented space to some food processors. The USDA rented space from us as well with two full time inspectors. They inspected so much crap it required us to staff extra employees to cater to them. In addition to those stooges, we had surprise inspections of our facility and of the facilities of the businesses we rented space to. Things only got worse after Homeland Security got involved. They had a bunch more requirement we had to comply with.

While I generally don't have a problem with the government regulating industry, I can certainly understand people's frustration with it. Although I can tell you that if you saw food processed in a USDA certified facility and food processed in one not certified. You would surely prefer to eat food from the certified one. So, perhaps the consumers win in the end.

in a port of entry they may inspect but in the fields, packinghouses bottlingplants and other food production and processing plants they are never seen. ever.

if i have any doubts of a product's origin or cleanlyness i go with the kosher choice. i seen too much shit to trust the usda or the fda to wipe their own asses.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Milorganite is the trademark of a biosolids fertilizer produced by the Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District. The District captures wastewater from the metropolitan Milwaukee area, including local industries. This water is then treated at the Jones Island Water Reclamation Facility in Milwaukee, Wisconsin with microbes to digest nutrients that are found in it. Cleaned water is then returned to Lake Michigan. The resulting microbes are then dried at temperatures ranging from 900⁰-1200⁰F. Surviving pathogens are unlikely and daily tests confirm the absence of pathogens. The Milorganite program is one of the world’s largest recycling efforts; the low impact formulation was designed to recycle valuable nutrients for use on turf and gardens, reducing the need for manufactured nutrients or mined materials for fertilization. Milorganite contains virtually no salts, so it never burns plants – even in the hottest temperatures and driest conditions. You also don’t have to water it in; it will stay in the soil ready to work when moisture comes later. Each application feeds for 8-10 weeks, resulting in fewer applications.
Heat dried biosolids contain slow release organic nitrogen, largely water insoluble phosphorus bound with iron and aluminum and high organic matter.[SUP][1][/SUP] Milorganite releases 85% of its nitrogen slowly as your turf grows, generating balanced growth. Milorganite’s 4% Iron enhances the color of your turf throughout the 8-10 week. Milorganite is sold throughout the United States, Canada, and the Caribbean as a golf course and home lawn and garden fertilizer. The name Milorganite is a contraction of the phrase Milwaukee Organic Nitrogen, and was the result of a 1925 naming contest held in National Fertilizer Magazine. Raising taxes for public health was relatively controversial in the early 1900s. In 1911, reform minded socialists were elected on a platform calling for construction of a wastewater treatment plant to protect against water borne pathogens.[SUP][2][/SUP] Experiments showed that heat dried activated sludge pellets "compared favorably with standard organic materials such as dried blood, tankage, fish scap, and cottonseed meal."[SUP][3][/SUP] Sales to golf courses, turf farms and flower growers began in 1926.[SUP][4][/SUP] Milorganite was popularized during the 1930s and 1940s before inorganic urea became available to homeowners after WWII. University research confirms anecdotal evidence that applying Milorganite on lawns and near plants deters deer due to its odor. However, the manufacturer cannot market Milorganite as a deer repellent because it is not registered as a "pesticide." Therefore, repelling hungry deer from Hostas remains an "off-label" use. [SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP] Milorganite is tested daily for the presence of heavy metals and pathogens. Milorganite surpasses the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) "Exceptional Quality" criteria, which establishes the strictest concentration limits in the fertilizer industry for heavy metals, allowing Milorganite to be used on food crops. Milorganite is also certified by the USDA as a bio-based product since it is derived from renewable materials.

the SFPUC's shit did not surpass the standards for shit. independant lab tests proved it's heavy metals and dioxin content was extremely high,, well beyond the safety range established for food crops,, and the PCB content was off the charts. chromium was so heavy that they couldnt even put the stuff in the landfills. thats why they gave it away free!

 

[ChesusRice]

in a port of entry they may inspect but in the fields, packinghouses bottlingplants and other food production and processing plants they are never seen. ever.

if i have any doubts of a product's origin or cleanlyness i go with the kosher choice. i seen too much shit to trust the usda or the fda to wipe their own asses.

WRONG
a packing house cannot operate without a USDA inspector on premises
And they pay the salary of said USDA inspector

 

[ChesusRice]

the SFPUC's shit did not surpass the standards for shit. independant lab tests proved it's heavy metals and dioxin content was extremely high,, well beyond the safety range established for food crops,, and the PCB content was off the charts. chromium was so heavy that they couldnt even put the stuff in the landfills. thats why they gave it away free!

Milorganite is 6-8 bucks per 25lb bag here

 

[Dr Kynes]

WRONG
a packing house cannot operate without a USDA inspector on premises
And they pay the salary of said USDA inspector

well they do operate without udsa inspectors. i have never even seen a usda inspector outside of training films and stock footage.

 

[Rob Roy]

Why isnt Obama going after all these dispensarys that are listed?
over a hundred of them
and these are just the ones advertising their prices

Obama is the chief executive. The head DEA schmuck reports to him one way or another. If Obama wated to re-schedule pot or end the war on the weed, he'd do more than posture.

Your head is so far up his ass you can see UNCLE BUCKS feet. Obama is an authoritarian prohibitionist, deal with it, selling it any other way is pretty damn weak.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Milorganite is 6-8 bucks per 25lb bag here

the SFPUC's shit was free, and they still couldnt give it away. your citation is for a particular brand of sewage sediment, not the stuff the SFPUC couldnt even put in a landfill. even your citation (looks like it's from the pr department for the wholesaler) only discusses the application of their fertilizer on lawns flower beds and golf courses. figure that one out.

why is that so hard toi understand. if they could sell the shit they sure as fuck would have, but thay couldnt even dump the stuff, so they tried to "re-brand" it and give it away to dupes. that failed so they gave it away to the schools in oakland. does this sound like something they could get $.30 a pound for?

 

[ChesusRice]

well they do operate without udsa inspectors. i have never even seen a usda inspector outside of training films and stock footage.

I actually used to dress poultry
in our "facility" we didnt have a USDA inspector
so were limited to just dressing poultry for private parties and a hunting club
In order to of butcher poultry for resale we would need a full time inspector
Want more info
http://usda.gov/wps/portal/usda/usdahome