The Truth About Obama and Welfare Reform

[Canna Sylvan]

Except that Obama's birth certificate was released and Hawaii verified his place of birth as well.

Except that Romney released all the necessary SEC filings, you can find them on the SEC website. The IRS has verified all his taxes are up to date and legal as well.

I fail to see the difference between this and Obama's birth certificate issue.

 

[canndo]

Except that Romney released all the necessary SEC filings, you can find them on the SEC website. The IRS has verified all his taxes are up to date and legal as well.

I fail to see the difference between this and Obama's birth certificate issue.

You are imagining that anyone believes that Romney broke laws. The question is, how much did he pay in taxes.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

You are imagining that anyone believes that Romney broke laws. The question is, how much did he pay in taxes.

That's none of your fucking business.

Article 2, section 1, clause 5, is my business. If Obama's college transcripts show he received foreign aid as an Indonesian student, he is disqualified if true or not.

You admit Romney did nothing illegal. Show me the portion of the constitution which states you must reveal how much taxes you paid.

This Romney, taxes paid, controversy is made up, which only serves to deny votes if people don't like what they find out, an opinion. While Obama's isn't opinion if true. He gets immediately removed from office and placed in prison. Not even an impeachment hearing.

 

[ginwilly]

I heard he was behind 9/11 and deducted the loss of planes on his taxes, let's see em.

People are accusing him of hiding money offshore to avoid paying taxes so show us the returns. Do people think there is a "hidden money" line on a tax form? what do you think it would show? It's a distraction that seems to be working.

 

[canndo]

That's none of your fucking business.

Article 2, section 1, clause 5, is my business. If Obama's college transcripts show he received foreign aid as an Indonesian student, he is disqualified if true or not.

You admit Romney did nothing illegal. Show me the portion of the constitution which states you must reveal how much taxes you paid.

This Romney, taxes paid, controversy is made up, which only serves to deny votes if people don't like what they find out, an opinion. While Obama's isn't opinion if true. He gets immediately removed from office and placed in prison. Not even an impeachment hearing.

Currently 67 percent of the likely voting population would like to see his tax return. Obama has shown his birth certificate, he need show nothing else (and he didn't even have to show that). Romney made his taxes our business when he proposed tax changes upon the rest of us. He made it our business when he represented himself as someone who cared about and would do somethihng about taxes for the middle class. He made it our business when he claimed that lower taxes for the rich would be good for the country. If we find that his tax rate is close to zero then he is obviously working off a different agenda than the majority of the American people. No, he needn't present his tax returns, but we needn't vote for him either - on that basis alone.

 

[canndo]

I heard he was behind 9/11 and deducted the loss of planes on his taxes, let's see em.

People are accusing him of hiding money offshore to avoid paying taxes so show us the returns. Do people think there is a "hidden money" line on a tax form? what do you think it would show? It's a distraction that seems to be working.

If it is such a distraction then let him show them and demonstrate that it was indeed nothing but a distration.

 

[Canna Sylvan]

I heard he was behind 9/11 and deducted the loss of planes on his taxes, let's see em.

People are accusing him of hiding money offshore to avoid paying taxes so show us the returns. Do people think there is a "hidden money" line on a tax form? what do you think it would show? It's a distraction that seems to be working.

What it would show is if he deducted anonymous donations to causes he complains about. Nothing illegal about that, but some would call him a hypocrite. If he wants to have a secret personal life, it's his business.

I wouldn't want people knowing I have a mmj card. If I ran as a Republican in 2016, how many votes you think I'd get. If my kid is on Ritalin and I speak against it, I'm protected under the physician's privacy act.

 

[ginwilly]

you mean so we can hear about how he deducted x$ for his olympic horse? I want to hear a substantial plan toward energy independence, plans on how he will get the capital that's gone on strike to go back to work (because he really hasn't done this either).

Personally I would like to see the tax forms because it will probably be the only time I could snoop over a tax return of someone making 10s of millions. Not because there is something in there would that discredit his presidency.

No matter what's in those returns, it will be distorted and used against him. It's a bad plan to release them, even if I think he should. I think the longer he waits to release the better chance for a misstep from the administration that has obviously already poured over them. They have seen something they want to exploit and if he doesn't release they can't by law say what it is or they are busted. I'm thinking they have a little Nixon "above the law" to them, so he's probably doing the right thing.

edit: was in reply to canndo not Canna. Canna makes an excellent point.

 

[laughingduck]

Word is not only did Romney not pay taxes he actually got refunds of over 5 million a year. No wonder he doesnt want to release them.

Would a flat tax of say 15% on everyone be a good thing to get rid of that nonsense?

 

[Canna Sylvan]

Currently 67 percent of the likely voting population would like to see his tax return. Obama has shown his birth certificate, he need show nothing else (and he didn't even have to show that). Romney made his taxes our business when he proposed tax changes upon the rest of us. He made it our business when he represented himself as someone who cared about and would do somethihng about taxes for the middle class. He made it our business when he claimed that lower taxes for the rich would be good for the country. If we find that his tax rate is close to zero then he is obviously working off a different agenda than the majority of the American people. No, he needn't present his tax returns, but we needn't vote for him either - on that basis alone.

First of all, Obama has shown shit. A jpeg is not a birth certificate. 67% huh?

"In logic, an argumentum ad populum (Latin
for " appeal to the people ") is a fallacious
argument that concludes a proposition to be
true because many or most people believe it.
In other words, the basic idea of the
argument is: "If many believe so, it is so.""

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

What if 99% want Obama to show his penis at a press conference? He's the one claiming how black he is. He doesn't have to show it, but we needn't vote for him either - on that basis alone.

 

[ChesusRice]

Would a flat tax of say 15% on everyone be a good thing to get rid of that nonsense?

NO becuase no single flat tax plan taxes unearned income
Romney hasnt had a salary in years
But he gets millions in capital gains
all of which would be taxed at 0% under any flat tax scamnario mentioned so far

 

[canndo]

you mean so we can hear about how he deducted x$ for his olympic horse? I want to hear a substantial plan toward energy independence, plans on how he will get the capital that's gone on strike to go back to work (because he really hasn't done this either).

Personally I would like to see the tax forms because it will probably be the only time I could snoop over a tax return of someone making 10s of millions. Not because there is something in there would that discredit his presidency.

No matter what's in those returns, it will be distorted and used against him. It's a bad plan to release them, even if I think he should. I think the longer he waits to release the better chance for a misstep from the administration that has obviously already poured over them. They have seen something they want to exploit and if he doesn't release they can't by law say what it is or they are busted. I'm thinking they have a little Nixon "above the law" to them, so he's probably doing the right thing.

edit: was in reply to canndo not Canna. Canna makes an excellent point.

There is a hell of a lot of conjecture here - Obama has his taxes, the right will use them to their advantage (he will present a cogent and reasonable energy policy :}) all that conjecture will dissapear if he produces them. the argument that the left will cause mischief with the returns is bogus, they cannot cause any more than they are causing right now in their absence and beyond that, this sort of thing comes with the territory of running for prez. Or will you insinuate that Obama got a free ride during his first campaign?

 

[ChesusRice]

First of all, Obama has shown shit. A jpeg is not a birth certificate. 67% huh?

"In logic, an argumentum ad populum (Latin
for " appeal to the people ") is a fallacious
argument
What if 99% want Obama to show his penis at a press conference? He's the one claiming how black he is. He doesn't have to show it, but we needn't vote for him either - on that basis alone.

Well 2/3rds of the people want to see his tax returns no getting around that

and what does Obamas penis have to do with being black??
Are you suggesting something?

 

[Canna Sylvan]

NO becuase no single flat tax plan taxes unearned income
Romney hasnt had a salary in years
But he gets millions in capital gains
all of which would be taxed at 0% under any flat tax scamnario mentioned so far

What lies you liberals say! Any gain could be taxed at 15%. There's currently no flat tax scam. So how do claim to know the details of such a fictional scenario. Gambling, hedging, stocks, etc would all have a 15% rate in my novel.

 

[canndo]

First of all, Obama has shown shit. A jpeg is not a birth certificate. 67% huh?

"In logic, an argumentum ad populum (Latin
for " appeal to the people ") is a fallacious
argument that concludes a proposition to be
true because many or most people believe it.
In other words, the basic idea of the
argument is: "If many believe so, it is so.""

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

What if 99% want Obama to show his penis at a press conference? He's the one claiming how black he is. He doesn't have to show it, but we needn't vote for him either - on that basis alone.

An appeal to the populace is indeed a logical falacy, unless of course the appeal is to a populace that you are entreating to vote for you, then it becomes perfectly reasonable.

Thus, if most people who are willing to consider a particular person for the post of president are interested in seeing your tax returns AND the opponent has exhibited his, then it is logical that the percentages of people who request this information be presented.

Frankly, if 99 percent want to see Obama's penis in order for them to vote for him, it would be in Obama's best interest to show it.

 

[canndo]

What lies you liberals say! Any gain could be taxed at 15%. There's currently no flat tax scam. So how do claim to know the details of such a fictional scenario. Gambling, hedging, stocks, etc would all have a 15% rate in my novel.

I know little of flat taxes but it seems to me Canna S is correct, wouldn't a flat tax apply to any income from any means?

 

[ChesusRice]

What lies you liberals say! Any gain could be taxed at 15%. There's currently no flat tax scam. So how do claim to know the details of such a fictional scenario. Gambling, hedging, stocks, etc would all have a 15% rate in my novel.

Go back a few pages I have links and excerpts from
Herman cains 999 plan
Steve Forbes flat tax plan
Rick perrys flat tax plan
and
newt gingriches flat tax plan
none of them include capital gains and unearned income as taxable

 

[ginwilly]

The Daily Kos argued for a progressive flat tax. To a lot of people flat tax simply means no deductions, not the same tax rate for anyone.

Our tax code is a major contributor in a lot of our countries problems, if we are rewriting it, we can make it whatever we say it is.

Automated Payment Transaction Tax. This idea is simple, elegant, progressive, and in-arguably fair...and since I've never met anyone who has heard of it, I wonder what I am missing.

Here are the basics - eliminate virtually every tax you can think of - income, estate, corporate, capital gains, fuel, sales - and replace it with a flat tax at a very small rate (.35 to .7 percent) on every electronic transaction. Every time the money moves, the government gets a cut.
Since this applies to everyone equally, it is impossible to argue that it isn't fair - and it would MASSIVELY shift the tax burden back where it belongs - on the 1%. Intrigued? More after the jump.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/02/1061049/-APT-A-Progressive-Flat-Tax

 

[ChesusRice]

What lies you liberals say! Any gain could be taxed at 15%. There's currently no flat tax scam. So how do claim to know the details of such a fictional scenario. Gambling, hedging, stocks, etc would all have a 15% rate in my novel.

Herman Cains plan
http://www.ctj.org/pdf/cainplan.pdf
Steve forbes plan
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/congress/forbes_flat_tax.html
Rick Perrys Flat tax
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2011-10-25/perry-flat-tax-rate/50919212/1

Here is Gingriches
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-01-18/fact-check-gingrich-romney-taxes/52647894/1

Now are you going to post a link to a flat tax that taxes unearned income

 

[canndo]

The Daily Kos argued for a progressive flat tax. To a lot of people flat tax simply means no deductions, not the same tax rate for anyone.

Our tax code is a major contributor in a lot of our countries problems, if we are rewriting it, we can make it whatever we say it is.

Automated Payment Transaction Tax. This idea is simple, elegant, progressive, and in-arguably fair...and since I've never met anyone who has heard of it, I wonder what I am missing.

Here are the basics - eliminate virtually every tax you can think of - income, estate, corporate, capital gains, fuel, sales - and replace it with a flat tax at a very small rate (.35 to .7 percent) on every electronic transaction. Every time the money moves, the government gets a cut.
Since this applies to everyone equally, it is impossible to argue that it isn't fair - and it would MASSIVELY shift the tax burden back where it belongs - on the 1%. Intrigued? More after the jump.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/02/1061049/-APT-A-Progressive-Flat-Tax

Why would we not see a reversion to a cash economy where the government doesn't get its cut?