Connection between 24hr lights & males

[green_nobody]

fletch, you are good, adaptation by cloning, the only way you can achieve a a adaptation to an environment is by sexual reproduction and selection of those who may stay alive, fact known to man now for about 200years man

 

[mr_issues]

well im in the right place... and I guess im doing everything right... Thanks people!

 

[iblazethatkush]

I started mine off on 24/0 for the first 3 wks and then switched to 18/6 for the last 2 wks...i had 27 female and 25 male...when i was growing outdoors i had 75% female...so i would say 18/6 is probably better...but then again i'm growin bagseed now and when i was outdoors i ordered the seeds so that may be the reason.

 

[mr_issues]

ok, im growing on a 16/8 right now, but my plants are only a week old... Should I drop it down to 12/12 before they get any older?

 

[iblazethatkush]

ok, im growing on a 16/8 right now, but my plants are only a week old... Should I drop it down to 12/12 before they get any older?

wait till they get a foot tall

 

[lando421]

mr_issues! you read something wrong or misinterpreted. Yes, the debate is lower photoperiod can increase your chances of getting a female, but we are not talking any less than 16hours. Do NOT lower your photoperiod to lower than 13hours of light a day as that will induce flowering... You want to either stay at 16 if thats what you desire, but that will allow for a limited amount of growth. The more light the more growth, but also the more light the more stretch and apparently the greater the likelihood of males are. The idea is to strike a comfortable balance for your needs. If your growing for personal use and pride, I'd go 18/6 to get a stable, healthy plant (not saying more light is unhealthy, but you know what I mean!)

I'd go anywhere from 17/7 to 20/4 depending on what you'd like. 16 seems low, 12 is far too low...There is tons of info to help you decide what you want issues,
good luck

 

[Garden Knowm]

ok, im growing on a 16/8 right now, but my plants are only a week old... Should I drop it down to 12/12 before they get any older?

Grrow 18/6 and hen switch to 12/12 whem appropriate ...

if you are usibng a 1000 watt bulb that will be when your plant is 24 inches tall..

if you are using a 1000 watt bulb and are growing 30 plants then 12/12 when they are 4-6 nodes tall..

if you are growing... with CFL's flower (12/12) when your plants have 4-5 nodes...



different situations call for different scenarios...

THE MAIN FACTOR IS LLIIGGHHTTIINNGG..

can the "light" provide enough penetration/lumens for THE GROW/PLANT...?


Most lights can not penetrate and create quality buds through even the smallest amount of foliage..

iloveyou

 

[videoman40]

While what garden knowm has said is entirely true, the knowm apparently hasn't read the thread, and the post is off subject. This is a thread easily mis-interpeted if you come into it midway.
mr_issues, 16/8 is fine for right now, you also want a higher N when you feed her, higher humidity, a lower temp, also more blue light would help too.
It is important to start these changes at the three-pairs-of-leaves stage and continue for two or three weeks, before reverting to standard conditions.
Peace

 

[Jordy Villain]

hah video man that's funny and true. I smoked an L yesterday and wandered into my local garden society and was talking to this really chill lady about growing and she said exactly that. The amount of nitrogen vs the temp and lighting will affect sex. She said to use manure and 18/6 at most

 

[FilthyFletch]

fletch, you are good, adaptation by cloning, the only way you can achieve a a adaptation to an environment is by sexual reproduction and selection of those who may stay alive, fact known to man now for about 200years man
__________________
keep the thumb green and the gun oiled, !

This is not true and is easy to prove.If you take (in regards to this topic) a plant from an outdoor strain that has a certain tendency as it had to adapt to mother nature take it inside starting it close to its natural habitat then begin over generation then generation and so forth adjust slowing the new environment pretty soon the newest version will have changed its reliance to the needs of the new environment.A plant that was a warm weather natural grower can now be grown ina a cooler shortened inside environment and vice versa.You can force purple buds on plants if you change temperature which is an adaptation or forced by an unnatural process of temperature drop.You have then in essence modified a gentic trait to become active instead of recessive.You dont change genetic but can induce or recess characteristics in starins that may not occur naturally on its own by environmental adaptation......And I know inside growers who do get an lb per plant over ozes

 

[videoman40]

"And I know inside growers who do get an lb per plant over ozes"
That certainly is not the rule, but the exception.
We all have stories of an exceptional yeild, we have our very own star here in this forum who got 48 oz's from one plant.

 

[hearmenow]

DAYYYYYYUM!! That was from one plant??? That isn't one of yours, is it VM?

 

[videoman40]

No dude, I wish, it's nongreenthumbs

 

[entropic]

Lord baby Jesus that's a huge plant, if that we're mine I couldn't have resisted ripping off a branch and eating it like a lollipop.

Here's the full Dutch Seed co. article

Here Is How To Produce Mostly Females From Standard Seeds

 HERE IS HOW TO PRODUCE MOSTLY FEMALES FROM STANDARD SEEDS



As a grower I always believed that the seed was genetically predisposed to its sexual orientation as soon as fertilization of the ovule took place in the female. Basically this means that if you take a single female plant and produced seeds from her that the ratios are already set in the offspring. If a gender detection test could be established the males could be separated from the females there are then. If this where true then the breeder’s packs of ten seeds per pack could easily turn out to be all males or all females because of this genetic predisposition. However this is not the case!

One of the areas of my interest was in the feminized seed programs that so successfully charged through-the-roof prices on seeds that are reported to grow all females. However, as many growers here like myself have experienced - this is not always the case either!

Feminized seeds work on the bases that there is a genetic predisposition for the plant to produce females because of special treatment that it gets in the selfing stages of a unique XX female. I won’t go into this in detail here because there is enough information on the process across the entire internet. Anyhow, in an optimal growing environment it is very easy to produce ALL females from these treated female plants. OPTIMAL is the key word here because in less than optimal growing conditions strange things start to happen to these feminized seeds.

In a single pack of feminized seeds a grower can produce:

Females.
Hermaphrodites.
Males.

Yeah, that’s right. Males! So where are these males coming from and how are they making there way into the feminized seed process. The answer is a very simple one. Sex is not completely determined in the cannabis plant until a few weeks before flowering. We will talk about this in a moment but now back to the feminized seeds.

In optimal growing conditions feminized seeds will kick out 100% females. This says a lot for growing conditions and the actual role they play on cannabis gender development. How many times have growers seen these effects of multiple genders from Feminized seeds? The answer lies clearly in how well they grow. Growers who are growing in non-stressful conditions will never see the male effect from feminized seeds and so hence it does not exist for them. However over periods time and different growing techniques the grower will eventually see these results when growing in less than optional environments. MALES!

For this reason growers who choose feminized seeds should be forewarned to get their growing environments down to a T. If you prevent stress then you prevent males and hermaphrodites appearing in a feminized seed population. It is as SIMPLY AS THAT.

Now onto the real topic of interest. Boosting those female to male ratios.

As many growers know seed banks are not responsible for male to female ratios. If you get a pack of all males, as many of us have done, then a quick call to your seed bank can maybe help procure some good substitute freebies with your second order. However some will not go along with this. It depends on your relationship with the seed bank. Give a shot anyhow, that is my advice, but be discreet and don’t blame the seed bank or breeder.

A couple of years ago Dutch Passion released an essay on how to increase mostly females from a pack of seeds. This is an excellent piece of work and has helped me to gain more of an interest in this area. In the past few years I have come to develop my own systems to get those ratios on the up and up. Right now I am very happy to report a real increase in my females from standard seeds. Sometimes as high as 90% to 95% on a consistent basis. So how is it done?

I prefer standard seeds for numerous reasons. The first reason being that feminized seeds come from hermie plants. Whichever way you look at it, the specially treated plants are hermed and this trait is often expressed in the offspring where conditions are less than optimal. Even with standard seeds the hermaphrodite condition is still achievable where stress occurs. I seem to have noticed that the two most stressful conditions which can cause the hermaphrodite trait occur before flowering in the vegetative phase of growing is around the 3rd to 4th week of growth before pre-flowering when the plant undergoes either heat stress or a problem with the 24/0 or 18/6 photoperiod (whatever vegetative photoperiod choose doesn’t matter, as long as disruptions occur). Even during the initial stages of calyx development males and females are obvious side by side at the node region. This is hermaphroditism due to vegetative growth problems. In the flowering period, hermaphrodites generally occur quicker because of an irregular photoperiod than anything else and heat stress certainly helps bananas to pop up in with the bud. Now, even Sinsemilla crops will herm towards the end depending on the strain. I don’t class this as a typical case of hermaphrodites. It is just something that some strains naturally do towards the end of the Sinsemilla procedure.

Anyhow for starters we better reproduce what Dutch Passion have to say about there feminized seeds first.

"Feminised Cannabis Seeds"

Courtesy of Dutch Passion

In November 1998 we introduced our "Female Cannabis Seed". We did this after our own experiments showed that from female seed, we acquired almost 100% female off-spring.

In the meantime we are six months further on . We have received a lot of feed-back from our customers. The reactions are mostly positive, clients who have successfully produced almost 100% female off-spring. However there have been reactions from customers who found a few hermaphrodites or males plants. Apparently environmental influences affect the sex of the female seeds as well. Because of the fact that Female seeds do not grow into female plants under all circumstances, we changed the name from "Female Cannabis Seeds" into "Feminised Cannabis Seeds".

From literature and from our own findings it appears that the growth of a male or a female plant from seed, except for the predisposition in the gender chromosomes, also depends on various environmental factors. Not only the origination of entirely male or female plants is partly affected by these environmental factors, the number of male and female flowers on a hermaphrodite plant is affected as well. The environmental factors that influence the sex of the plant (or the flower in the case of hermaphrodites), are among other things:

The quantity of nitrogen and potassium of the seedbed.
Humidity and moistness of the seedbed.
Level of temperatures.
Colour of the light used.
Length of daylight.
Stress, any form of stress, makes that more male individuals will originate from seed. Even the taking of cuttings from female plants may produce male or hermaphrodite cuttings.
To optimise the result, changes in one or more of the above-mentioned environmental factors for a certain period during growth, may be applied. During this time these environmental factors will deviate from the standard growing system for maximum harvest and quality, as described in nursery literature. The desired change(s) in the environmental factor(s) are started from the moment that the seedling has three pairs of real leaves (not counting the seed-lobes). This is the moment that male and/or female predisposition in florescence is being formed. After approximately two weeks the standard growing system can be reconverted to.

 

[entropic]

And the rest of the article...

Of the 5 above-mentioned environmental factors the first three are the most practical:

1. Level of nitrogen and potassium of the seedbed: A heightening of the standard level of nitrogen makes for more female plants originating from the seeds. A lowering of the nitrogen level shows more male plants. A heightening of the level of potassium tends to show more male plants, while a lowering of the potassium level shows more female plants. A combination of a higher nitrogen level for the period of a week or two and a lowering of the potassium level is recommended.
2. Humidity and moistness of the seedbed: a higher humidity makes for an increase in the number of female plants from seed, a lowering for an increase in male plants. The same is valid for the moistness of the seedbed.
3. Level of temperatures: lower temperatures make for a larger number of female plants, higher temperatures for more male plants.
4. Colour of light: more blue light makes for female plants from seed, more red light makes for more male plants.
5. Hours of daylight: few hours of daylight (e.g. 14 hours) makes for more female individuals, a long day (e.g. 18 hours) makes for more male plants.



Now let me just make a few adjustments here to this. You can do whatever you want to your plants in seedling stage and early vegetative stage of growth and it will not effect your final male to female ratios. The time when things should be near perfect is in or around the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth. This is the CRITICAL TIME for getting those female ratios up and up. I realized this clearly when noticing how some plants hermed because of problems that occurred around this period of the plants development. If the problems occurred before this time - no herms. So for this reason I surmised that this is when the crucial gender selection is made by the plant. Now I believe that the genders are set in the seed however the environment has a massive impact on how this is expressed in the final phenotypic expression of the plants gender. There are probably many genes that govern this, however lets get into how to up these female ratios.

At the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth make sure that your plants are free from stress. No pests attacks, no fungi attacks, no mold, no irregular photoperiod, not underwatered, not overwatered, not pruned or topped, a cannabis friendly soil mix, not recently transplanted, no small pots. If have these basic growing conditions under control then we can move onto the real forces of female production from standard seeds.

N:K and nutrients. What this simply boils down to is that you have the right nutrients present in the right ratios. A nutrient formulation that has roughly equal parts N, P and K is great but if the P levels go up or the N levels go down you are starting to look at a flowering type food for cannabis. If you do this then your odds of producing mostly females is greatly decreased. Make sure that you get those N, P and K levels to almost run from higher to lower amounts from N to P and K. I have noticed that equal portions of N to P an K can help with the female ratios but the higher N is certainly more helpful. So around the 3rd of 4th week of growth make sure that the ratios are good and that P or K has not gone above the N and P or else more males will occur. Obviously this means to avoid overfeeding your plants around this time too.

Never let your medium dry out completely around the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth. If you make sure to water occasionally, but not to overwater your plants, you will get those female ratios on the up and up. Overwatering or drying out of the medium will only produce more males. For consistent results in getting more females keeps those mediums moist.

Humidity. Now this is the tricky one. High humidity levels only promote fungi and mold development and lowering humidity levels is the way to cure most of this rot but by keeping those humidity levels up in or around the 70 rH factor will help to produce more females. If you have a low humidity grow room then you should get to hold of a humidifier. Now high humidity levels like 70rH cause the medium to dry out a lot quicker so you got to keep this under control too. Keep those mediums moist and those rH levesl at 70. This will help to improve those female to male ratios. Again, getting them on the up and up.

If you run the 24/0 photoperiod then do not allow those temps to go anywhere above 85 unless you have an equatorial strain. 75 is the best but going a little lower is not a problem for helping those female ratios. If you can get in at around 65 then those females are going to be popping up all over the place. The problem with this is that some growers like to use the 18/6 photoperiod and when the lights are off the temps drop from around 65 to 50 and even less. Try not to be below 55 because this has the adverse effect on the plants producing more males than females. Again between 65 and 75 is where you want to be during the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth, the preference being 70.

Invest in a MH Light for vegetative growth. Dump the HPS bulb for flowering later. I have noticed that HPS lighting during vegetative growth simply sends those males to female ratios all over the place. With MH lamps the females are everywhere. Invest in some MH HID lights. It makes all the difference in getting those females to show more often. This is worth repeating! MH Bulbs produce more females under optimal conditions especially if they are present during the 3rd and 4th week of vegetative growth. Surprising enough you can start seedlings under HPS and it will not have an effect on those female ratios. Again the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth is what is important here.

No stress during the 3rd to 4th week of vegetative growth. That is all there is to it. If you got your garden growing in optimal conditions without plant stress then the impressive 90% to 95% females start to emerge from standard seed packs. I find that topping is best done at the second to third week of vegetative growth but that this is a little stressful and can lead to those female ratios dropping again. Avoid topping or pruning if you are looking to up the female count.

That is all I have to say for the moment. These little snippets of information in conjunction with what DP uncovered have helped my female ratios considerably. Hopefully you can see the same results too. Have fun getting those environments optimal for females!!!!!!!!

strawdog

 

[mjbondage]

I call BS.....degrees or no degree in botany.

I use strictly HPS and Ive had 2 males pop up in 6 years . And it was from supposedly 100% female seeds. i Had about 80% males with MH or flouro previously, in the same setup from the same seed stock.
No males hmmm

I dont fret about humidity..dont even care what it is. As long as I keep an eye on them everyday,keep a steady flow of air on them with a fan,.. they'll be fine. Ive Only 1 bud lost to mold(my favorite one too). And that was because she was a f@cking monster...super dense trich covered buds everywhere. Still got 8 oz's off of her though. I was happy for a few months lol.
No males hmmm

I keep my ambient temps high around 83 F and my res at around 74 F no higher than 77 no lower than 68.

I start seedlings with 24hour light and float them in styro cup bottoms in a non lightproof manner until roots are long enough to place them in the neoprene inserts. and they remain in 24 light until the 22nd day..then I flip to 12/12.
No males hmmm

I dont check Ph and have had no problems in my bio-system whatsoever.
No males hmmm

I dont flush period
No males or root rot hmmm

I dont use additives,or H2O2...just GH micro and bloom no root rot again

I dont flush before harvest ..tastes better to me than my soil growing buddies do

I dont use the LUCAS formula or anyone elses....I start with a 1:1 ratio until i see the first five blade leaves appear. and afterwards I change ratio depending on nutrient/water uptake of the plants for the remainder.No high nitrogen levels ..no low potassium levels
No males hmmm

Oh and as far as sex not being determined at seed level...tell that to the 5 seedlings I have that have been covered in trichomes since birth and daily verified with my trusty radioshack scope.

Something is wrong here. I thought trichome production ONLY happens after the fifth week,.. counting days from seed (or happens when the plant SUPPOSEDLY decides to be female)
How is it possible for them to have trichomes then. if sex isnt predetermined at seed level?

.......And please dont insult me by asking if I got the little hairs confused with trichomes! Ive been doing this for a while
Im positive I can identify a cloudy trichome when I see a few hundred or so lying side by side. Especially after 6 years of harvesting by trichome color!

So, i say take what you read with a grain of salt and good luck ...

 

[videoman40]

Well Mr Mjbondage, for a 1st post I am so very impressed, (I hope you can read my scaraism here, cause I'm laying it on really thick right about now)

You want us to take your advice, when you
(1) admittedly put down any other growing technique that isnt your own
(2)only get 80% females from feminized seeds (the norm is 60% from regular seeds)
Hardly seems worth the investment if you are only improving your odds 20%
after such a large cash outlay.
(3) take no precautions in your environment at all, as in humidity or ph or anything else, mold.
(4) dosent flush, and prefers the hydro taste to soil
I could go on and on about your post, but your last sentence said it best:
"So, i say take what you read with a grain of salt and good luck ..."

PS: how did you get 5 males from feminized seeds?

 

[abudsmoker]

lol 5 males from fem genes... time to cry foul there. contact the bank

 

[mjbondage]

Please DO go on and on..I'd love the scaraism..whatever that is. Is that anything like an aneurysm? Cause i could do without some of those.

I see right away that this forum is only open to senior member's opinions huh? well,Im going to give it anyway..If that offends you then dont read it, or have your mod buddies delete it.
Seems unless I see it "your" way around here,..my experiences have no value in this forum??

I never put down any specific technique ...put the bong down for a second dude...
I was just suggesting that you cant believe everything that you read.
In my case, largely what Ive read about marijuana botany is bs and the EXACT opposite of what the "experts" say works the best,...works fine in my system, with alot less maintenance and way less money. maybe u dont,...but I like saving money and time.

Large investment?? Ive got like 250 in the system in question... including nutes LOL

Im sorry if I confused you videoman.....I never said that I got 5 males from fem seeds..I said I got 2...and it was from a 4pack of female seeds ICE. I did complain and recieved replacements ASAP. Not that Id use female seeds again..gave em away. I was just trying to save some time, and space.

The 80% males ..well,I was referring to using mh/flouro in veg then hps for bloom..and that I get better ratios with strictly hps.Sorry if I confused.
As far as no precautions in my system...My home is temperature/humidity controlled(severe asthma) and my house is kept clean with plenty of filteration for dust.. So i dont have those problems to contend with.
ANd ph in a properly working biosystem WILL take care of itself..unless your water supply is terribly hard. Which mine is not. I spent 2 grows chasing my ph only to find that I was causing more harm than good in this type of system. I should note that my res is 3 times as big as the buckets' volume so I have more buffering ability than the average hydro system.
Why would I flush ,when I see no significant difference than when I do? Another waste of time for me..I'd Rather spend my time smoking buds.
And soil buds taste ...well....like soil to me. hydro tastes much cleaner to me and I prefer it. Is that Ok with you as well??

Seems like a ganja guru should know some of this shit.

Do you understand what the phrase "take what you read with a grain of salt ....means?

Nevermind..I just saw where youre from...
oops ...there i go giving my opinion again

 

[skunkushybrid]

AssGasOrGrass, I never heard that 24/0 was better. I have heard arguments on both sides of the fence, however I have always felt it is best to try to mimmick mother nature. So it's 18/6 for me.

PaulioJr, your results are exactly what they are saying to do: "Fewer hours of light will give more females." Using 16/8 was smart.

I have a friend who uses these guidelines on all grows, and claims a 90% ratio of females.

Under 24 hour light in veg', your plants will grow bigger and stronger, quicker. As for male to female ratio, isn't it 50/50? When I first started growing I used 18/6 and out of 40 seeds I got 20 females and one hermy. On the next grow (where i had to germinate 20) it was simply easier to leave the veg' area on for 24 hours, especially as this was the cloning area too. Out of 20 seeds I got 10 females and one hermy. So, no difference whatsoever. Also, I have germinated 10 seeds and got 6 fem's, under 24 hour light.

Within a seed is the plants genetic make-up. I believe you have male seed and female seed, that it is genetic, and the only way to alter the sex of your seed or young plant is to do it on this level. Except for hermies of course.

Also, I have just germinated 5 la confidential x mystery haze. They are under constant 24 hour light, mh. They are only a few days old, and if i was to place bets I'd say 2 males, 2 females and one runt that it really won't matter the sex.