New Obama Campaign Slogan has strong ties to Socialism

[UncleBuck]

What Buck doesn't realise is Socialism is a bigger burden on workers and less on people who arnt bothered.

Plus I'm sorry to say it, but in Ireland/the UK waiting times are unreal if you don't have private insurance.

There are hundreds of people who have to wait 3+ months for a cancer diagnosis which effectively ends their life.

So I pay a hell of alot more tax than my US counterparts, to pay for freeloaders and an ineffectual system and still have to buy private insurance to receive a decent medical service?

The grass might LOOK greener over here, but in reality to make it seem that green it has to stink of shit...and I'd rather have a yellow lawn I can use and chill out on than a shitty smelly green one that is unusable if you get the analogy.

If I had the choice, Id drop universal healthcare here, use Government to put a contract for the provision of the services up to tender, and reinvest the money improving State education...at least that way people can get jobs to buy their insurance.

you're trying to make it sound like you pay more for health care than we do, which is patently false. overall, you pay about half. you pay it differently, through taxes instead of directly to an insurer, but you don't have the freeloader problem we have where people go bankrupt in the face of medical debt and the costs get pushed onto the rest of us.

the ironic thing is that a lot of these people could afford to insure themselves but don't. or want insurance but can't get it because of a pre-existing condition. or had insurance and got dropped once they got sick. or have insurance and hit a lifetime cap.

we're working on fixing some of those things, but we have a hell of a long way to go to fix everything that is broken in our shitty little health care system.

 

[Harrekin]

you're trying to make it sound like you pay more for health care than we do, which is patently false. overall, you pay about half. you pay it differently, through taxes instead of directly to an insurer, but you don't have the freeloader problem we have where people go bankrupt in the face of medical debt and the costs get pushed onto the rest of us.

the ironic thing is that a lot of these people could afford to insure themselves but don't. or want insurance but can't get it because of a pre-existing condition. or had insurance and got dropped once they got sick. or have insurance and hit a lifetime cap.

we're working on fixing some of those things, but we have a hell of a long way to go to fix everything that is broken in our shitty little health care system.

Did you miss the part where I said I have private insurance (€250/$320 a month) AND still have to pay for the public system through my taxes? (Net taxes are roughly 33% of my income). We also have VAT of 23% on everything we buy and petrol is €1.70 ($2.30) a LITRE (less than 1/4 of a gallon). Cigarettes are €9.10 ($13 ish a pack). For Gods sake Irish Whiskey is more expensive here than in the US because of our taxes!

How can you possibly say we only pay "differently"?!

You guys just need to ensure parity in the private insurance system, which Obama could've done without the hassle of forcing everyone to buy insurance.

Theres no ultimate Conservative or Liberal plan that can fix all the problems. There needs to be a hybrid solution.

 

[InCognition]

i would say the selfish coward is the person who has their employees work in unsafe conditions for menial wages because they want to put an extra dollar or two in their pocket.

ya know, because running a sweatshop is such noble work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire

by the way, i can't take anything you say seriously after looking at your grow. i suspect you are another one of these annoying, naive little 19 year olds who would suck ron paul's cock if given the chance.

No one made that individual work in unsafe conditions. If one doesn't like the safety of a job, they don't have to work it. Pretty simple. Hidden dangers are a little different and not what I'm discussing.

If it's not a forced labor sweatshop, then one has decided to work there. It's an individuals choice, and there is no one to blame except the worker for taking the job. A person knows they are working in a sweat shop when they apply to work at one.

Forced labor is a completely irrelevant in regards to what I'm talking about, if you're also regarding those types of sweat shops.


Likewise, I cannot take anything you say seriously after looking at your comments which depict your lack of rationale or common sense, and highlight your hypocrisy and ignorance. I'll continue to address you from time to time though, when I feel it's necessary to make you look like an idiot. I feel like I do a pretty good job at it, but who would you be to agree on that?

If you think the cold hard reality of truth is annoying, then maybe you should sign out of this reality. You telling me I should suck cock keeps me signed into this reality, with a bag of popcorn of course. One with such delusion, such as yourself, can be quite entertaining at times when all I direct towards you is this thing we call truth, and maybe some personal attacks here and there, but that's only cause I can't sympathize with crazy, lol.

 

[SirLancelot]

No one made that individual work in unsafe conditions. If one doesn't like the safety of a job, they don't have to work it. Pretty simple. Hidden dangers are a little different and not what I'm discussing.

If it's not a forced labor sweatshop, then one has decided to work there. It's an individuals choice, and there is no one to blame except the worker for taking the job. A person knows they are working in a sweat shop when they apply to work at one.

Forced labor is a completely irrelevant in regards to what I'm talking about, if you're also regarding those types of sweat shops.

WHen the union came into effect it was needed because the standards were so low and the fact of the matter is you didn't have an option. Where else would you have went and worked? everywhere was the same so the union came in and improved the quality of working conditions and gave a stepping stone for a big step forward in our working force, but today you have options and could go somewhere else, which is why the union seems pretty pointless now-a-days.

 

[UncleBuck]

No one made that individual work in unsafe conditions. If one doesn't like the safety of a job, they don't have to work it. Pretty simple. Hidden dangers are a little different and not what I'm discussing.

If it's not a forced labor sweatshop, then one has decided to work there. It's an individuals choice, and there is no one to blame except the worker for taking the job. A person knows they are working in a sweat shop when they apply to work at one.

Forced labor is a completely irrelevant in regards to what I'm talking about, if you're also regarding those types of sweat shops.


Likewise, I cannot take anything you say seriously after looking at your comments which depict your lack of rationale or common sense, and highlight your hypocrisy and ignorance. I'll continue to address you from time to time though, when I feel it's necessary to make you look like an idiot. I feel like I do a pretty good job at it, but who would you be to agree on that?

If you think the cold hard reality of truth is annoying, then maybe you should sign out of this reality. You telling me I should suck cock keeps me signed into this reality, with a bag of popcorn of course. One with such delusion, such as yourself, can be quite entertaining at times when all I direct towards you is this thing we call truth, and maybe some personal attacks here and there, but that's only cause I can't sympathize with crazy, lol.

i never said you should suck cock, i said you would suck cock, namely one person in particular.

 

[UncleBuck]

WHen the union came into effect it was needed because the standards were so low and the fact of the matter is you didn't have an option. Where else would you have went and worked? everywhere was the same so the union came in and improved the quality of working conditions and gave a stepping stone for a big step forward in our working force, but today you have options and could go somewhere else, which is why the union seems pretty pointless now-a-days.

this is basically true, although i would say that unions nowadays are not completely pointless or without merit. here in my state, the teacher's union did not even get any cost of living increases for the third year in a row, so the people who are completely belligerent about unions seem pretty out of touch to me.

incocknition seems too young and naive to understand that 100 years ago, there weren't many places, if any at all, that the run of the mill worker could go without being exploited. unions were absolutely needed, they brought us many of the things we take for granted nowadays.

 

[Ringsixty]

I think we need some more socialist services from out government really...Like healthcare...capitalism is out of control right now here, so why not numb it a little by applying a little socialism?

Who is going to pay for it...the 49% that don't pay taxes??? Think about it.
How's Socialism working out for Europe? Hmmmm....... broke as hell and ready to collapse.
Once FREE stuff is given out...NO one want's to give it up even if it is good for the country.

RIOT!!!!!!

 

[Harrekin]

Who is going to pay for it...the 49% that don't pay taxes??? Think about it.
How's Socialism working out for Europe? Hmmmm....... broke as hell and ready to collapse.
Once FREE stuff is given out...NO one want's to give it up even if it is good for the country.

RIOT!!!!!!

50% of all our Governments revenues go to 15% of our population on Welfare. That's not including the cost of the failsauce public health system.

And people call that "equality" and "fairness"?

 

[Johnny Retro]

We should continue to turn more towards social programs like our friends in Europe. Their economies are thriving and pose no threat to global stability.

LOL

 

[Johnny Retro]

you sound confused. the rest of the world employs a much more socialistic model than we do. take health care, for example.

britain has the NHS. they will NEVER get rid of it, it is too popular. so they will never move away from socialism. what they are doing is introducing a few free market mechanisms into their socialistic model to help improve it. that's not moving away from socialism, that's improving the socialistic model.

and you know what? it works way better than ours does. it insures all their citizens, not just some. no one ever goes broke or loses their house due to medical debt. and they pay about half of what we do per capita for health care as a nation.

wake me up when they get rid of the NHS so i can congratulate you on making a true statement. until then, your statement is completely and utterly false.

Is that why they are in a double dip recession? You're right, lets follow that model. Top notch!

 

[NoDrama]

More socialism here please, I need more free money to pay for shit I should have never bought in the first place.

 

[Harrekin]

Is that why they are in a double dip recession? You're right, lets follow that model. Top notch!

And you wanna know the reason why the double dipped? Cos they slashed and burned everything on the Governments budget EXCEPT welfare...talk about buying votes or what?

Ironic thing is its entirely self defeating in economic terms.

 

[InCognition]

i never said you should suck cock, i said you would suck cock, namely one person in particular.

Oh ok, got ya. On that note, I'll still stay signed into this reality, and still with a bag of popcorn.

By the way, one chooses to work in a sweatshop. They know what they are signing up for, and they can choose to stop working if they please. Got a problem with free choice?

It's not a business owner's job to cater to it's employees, it's the employees job to cater to the business, hence the employee isn't the boss. It's a business owner's obligation to make money, based on their own choices on how they want to operate their business. Don't like it? Don't work for them. Simple.

Care to elaborate on that intelligently instead of discussing cock sucking?

 

[Canna Sylvan]

I strongly dissagree. Having worked Union for 7 years, and spending years running the third largest Union Contractorship in my state. Can things get out of hand at times? Yes. These are working class people who wish to work for fair wages in a safe environment all to feed their families. Good bussiness management understands it is in partnership with it's employees that all prosper. I have a small bussiness of my own and when my people come to me for help or advice you bet I come with everything I have to help them out. This idea of heirarchies instead of lateral or equal relationships is destructive. As people who all have the same needs in life there should be a mutual respect. If bussinesses operated fairly and weren't abusing their employees, Unions would have never come about in the first place. Most of the people I meet who are against Unions have either never worked Union or had a bad experience they wish to blame the Union for.

I was part of the teacher's union. A bunch of liberal shits who think everyone one else owes them. Sorry, not to disrespect, but unions are a ponzi scheme. You pay into it, the leaders get all the money.

When it comes to non-government unions, what happens when business owners get tired of it? They can close shop and open in another country with tons of people willing to work for a fraction people do here.

Personally I think unions are anti-American. Besides the "we have our rights" people, this is a pretty good country. For everyone complaining, try living in China, North Korea or Ethiopia. Try being black or Korean in Japan, or pretty much a non-citizen in Japan. With: curfew checks with papers for foreigners, nationalist only baths, disdain you'll never belong and if you ever become a citizen, your children never will be. Talk about man without a country.

None of that shit happens here. With all the worldwide talk about how everyone hates us around the world, they sure come here in droves.

 

[InCognition]

Is that why they are in a double dip recession? You're right, lets follow that model. Top notch!

Yup, buck doesn't seem to understand that socialism in any size, shape, or form, does not work. Period. It's not debatable. Look at history, and current socialistic based programs. And the programs that seem to be working, only work on the surface. Once you peel the layers away, it's blatantly obvious they are a failed system.

While socialistic ideas, systems, or programs may initially have the interest of the people in mind, it never pans out that way in the long run.

Even if a socialistic based system were to miraculously work, at the end of the day socialistic systems always violate rights, and a system that violates rights is doing wrong, before it's ever doing right. And those who beg to differ, for some reason think they have the right, to deny others of rights. Bat-shit crazy people nowadays...

 

[InCognition]

I was part of the teacher's union. A bunch of liberal shits who think everyone one else owes them. Sorry, not to disrespect, but unions are a ponzi scheme. You pay into it, the leaders get all the money.

When it comes to non-government unions, what happens when business owners get tired of it? They can close shop and open in another country with tons of people willing to work for a fraction people do here.

Personally I think unions are anti-American. Besides the "we have our rights" people, this is a pretty good country. For everyone complaining, try living in China, North Korea or Ethiopia. Try being black or Korean in Japan, or pretty much a non-citizen in Japan. With: curfew checks with papers for foreigners, nationalist only baths, disdain you'll never belong and if you ever become a citizen, your children never will be. Talk about man without a country.

None of that shit happens here. With all the worldwide talk about how everyone hates us around the world, they sure come here in droves.

Agreed, people in America have a sense of self-entitlement on a general basis, which explains why unions run around extorting the living shit out of American businesses.

They need a family, they need a certain type of car, a certain type of house, in a certain area, they need to eat certain food, a certain salary to afford it all, a certain this, a certain that. Most of which they don't "need", they just want it so fucking bad they can't register irresponsibility in their petty brains.

They don't realize that it's no one's job to feed their selfishness. If they want to get fed, they only thing they ought to do is just load up the .45 and have a few hollow points for breakfast, that will solve that issue.

.45's for breakfast anyone? Get em while their hot.

 

[Harrekin]

Yeah, you see the people queueing for Welfare here on Facebook on their iPhone 4's.

Heres one you'll really love...Non national EU citizen parents living here in Ireland are entitled to claim €140 ($185) a month per child, even if that child is non-resident in this country.

And that my friends is the sort of ridiculousness Obama and your Democratic Party are working towards.

If RIU is still around in 20 years, I'll be posting a delicious "I fuckin' told ya's so" thread for all the current faux-Liberals on here.

 

[UncleBuck]

Is that why they are in a double dip recession? You're right, lets follow that model. Top notch!

the double dip recession is owing primarily to austerity measures. austerity is a pretty dumb idea to get yourself out of a recession, 1937 was pretty darn good evidence of it.

you don't spur aggregate demand by putting an effective tax (extra burden) on those who create aggregate demand.

 

[UncleBuck]

Oh ok, got ya. On that note, I'll still stay signed into this reality, and still with a bag of popcorn.

By the way, one chooses to work in a sweatshop. They know what they are signing up for, and they can choose to stop working if they please. Got a problem with free choice?

It's not a business owner's job to cater to it's employees, it's the employees job to cater to the business, hence the employee isn't the boss. It's a business owner's obligation to make money, based on their own choices on how they want to operate their business. Don't like it? Don't work for them. Simple.

Care to elaborate on that intelligently instead of discussing cock sucking?

funny how you didn't deny that you would suck off ron paul if given the chance.

and way to showcase your complete lack of historical grasp. 100 years ago, there weren't many places for ordinary workers to work that were safe places to work with a livable wage. so when you say there was a 'choice', you are basically trying to rewrite history in your favor.

 

[UncleBuck]

Yup, buck doesn't seem to understand that socialism in any size, shape, or form, does not work. Period. It's not debatable. Look at history, and current socialistic based programs. And the programs that seem to be working, only work on the surface. Once you peel the layers away, it's blatantly obvious they are a failed system.

While socialistic ideas, systems, or programs may initially have the interest of the people in mind, it never pans out that way in the long run.

Even if a socialistic based system were to miraculously work, at the end of the day socialistic systems always violate rights, and a system that violates rights is doing wrong, before it's ever doing right. And those who beg to differ, for some reason think they have the right, to deny others of rights. Bat-shit crazy people nowadays...

germany is doing horribly right now with their socialistic universal health care. it's just a nightmare.

LOL!