Two Tokes Grow "Take 2"

[TwoTokeSmoke]

Well guys, I checked on the girls this morning and they seem to be doing real well. They are showing no signs of any type of stress from the transplant or the new soil yet.
The temp is running at 77deg. and RH is 37%.
I had the 400w HPS about 36" above them over night and this morning I dropped it down to about 24". Its been there for about 5hrs now and everything is looking good this far.
I think I will be topping a couple of them to experiment with and then doing some LST on them as well. The other ones I am going to just LST the hell out of them. I am wanting to try and keep a nice even canopy to get the most out of the light I have.
One question I have..... How long should I veg in the new Pots before switching to 12/12? I know it depends on how much space I have for the vertical stretch (which is 7' but I only have a 400w HPS) And how fast they are growing. But is there a "standard time" or "ballpark" time frame I should wait for root development for my 4 gallon pots Before I make that switch? I am asking this because I have "read" that after they enter the flowering stage the root development slows and the are now concentrating on flower development. I just want to make sure I have vegged long enough to have a "healthy" root system to support the flowering as best as possible without running into being root bound or lack of roots.
Thanks.....

 

[laserbrn]

Have you looked at my grow journal? I was using a 600w light, but look at the size they were when I started flowering. Look through lots of grow journals and focus on pics from the day people switch to 12/12. Then look at the end of their journals and try to compare. I know it's tough because of the perspectives people use for their pics, but you should get a good idea for what you are looking for.

How much training you do and how many plants you have make a big difference. I am old school man, I hate LST and Topping when it's avoidable. I know people like to keep plant counts down, but I don't think it's productive. I like lots of plants with the bottom foliage trimmed off for a room full of FAT buds instead of zillions of popcorn buds to deal with. I just HATE dealing with that crap. I'd still say about 3-4 weeks after transplant is going to be your best bet.

 

[TwoTokeSmoke]

Well guys, It appears that the soil may be a little to "hot" or a little stress from the transplant. The tips of the top leaves are showing a little bit of yellowing. this is 3 days after the transplant.
I really dont know what to do about it if there is anything other than letting it run it course and see if it gets worse.

Laser, Thanks man.. I did check out your grow and several others I think I have a prety good idea on when to flip to 12/12 now.

Whats your guys thought on the yellowing??
Thanks....

 

[loyaltytoafault]

A little nute burn bro. Doesn't look too bad though!

 

[farmerjoe420]

its kind of hard to see any yellowing with the hps glare a pic without the hps would be good but from the looks of her, i would say dont worry at all.

 

[TwoTokeSmoke]

Thanks guys for the reassurance, Sorry about the Pic with the HPS on, I tried to move it out of the way so only the floro's were shinning on the plants.

I must say they haven't gotten any worse and they are doing pretty good. They are not getting much taller (they now have 8 opposing nodes) but sure are filling out nice the secondary branches are filling in nice and they have 2 opposing nodes and 1 alternating node.

I have switched from a 24/0 light schedule to a 20/4 light schedule and will keep it here until I switch to the 12/12.
If things continue to progress as they have been my target date to switch to 12/12 will be January 21st. I figure this will give them 30 days of vegging and the root system should be pretty healthy and vigorous from the transplant by then as well.

I will keep you updated and post new pictures in the next couple of days.

 

[laserbrn]

That plant in the picture has alternating nodes? Damn...looks small for 8 nodes. Sometimes it feels like a lifetime for me to get to that point. I try not to flower before then because I have found the main cola's come out better if the nodes on top are alternating at the start of flower. Opposing nodes seem to make weird buds instead of the "spiral to the top" that I like.

Things are lookin' good my man....

 

[TwoTokeSmoke]

That plant in the picture has alternating nodes? Damn...looks small for 8 nodes. Sometimes it feels like a lifetime for me to get to that point. I try not to flower before then because I have found the main cola's come out better if the nodes on top are alternating at the start of flower. Opposing nodes seem to make weird buds instead of the "spiral to the top" that I like.

Things are lookin' good my man....

Laser, It is my Noob mistake. No they do not have alternating nodes yet. I guess I was wrong with exactly what "Alternating Nodes" meant until I read your post and went and done some research.
I stand corrected... they have 8 opposing nodes and the secondary branches have 2 opposing nodes and 1 set of alternating nodes.
Sorry for any confusion but thanks for questioning this as I would not have known better had you not.

 

[laserbrn]

Yeah, that makes more sense. Usually nodes starting alternating at about the 8th node so I was a little confused. If it has any alternating nodes at this point you're well your way. That used the be the old school way of knowing if a plant was mature enough for flower. I still pretty much follow that as I know how big they pretty much end up if I start them at about 10 - 11 nodes (top only, not the secondary branching). But the timing is really your call, it's your show.

 

[TwoTokeSmoke]

Well the girls seem to be doing pretty good. The yellowing is not getting any worse so I am assuming I am either right on the threshold of the soil being to hot or they are begining to like the new soil.

As for as Topping, LST or any type of trimming after a lot of research and debate with myself I think I am going to let them grow on their own. How else am I going to be able to have a baseline to compare whats better if I don't start out with the natural grow first.
Don't get me wrong I will eventually try all of these down the road, But I think I need to grow them naturally this first time and focus on the basics first then move on from there.

 

[farmerjoe420]

Well the girls seem to be doing pretty good. The yellowing is not getting any worse so I am assuming I am either right on the threshold of the soil being to hot or they are begining to like the new soil.

As for as Topping, LST or any type of trimming after a lot of research and debate with myself I think I am going to let them grow on their own. How else am I going to be able to have a baseline to compare whats better if I don't start out with the natural grow first.
Don't get me wrong I will eventually try all of these down the road, But I think I need to grow them naturally this first time and focus on the basics first then move on from there.

i hear ya bro. if i were u though, i would check out subcools thread on topping so next time you will have a good idea if you decide to do it that way. i used to be nervous about topping but if you have a healthy plant with plenty of root space for it to grow into, the plant will recover very fast. the thing i like about it is if you top and get 4 main shoots, you can tie all 4 shoots back and really control your canopy alot easier. i think your making the right move though, start off simple, and gradually try new things. hows the plant doing in the new soil?? any pics??

 

[laserbrn]

As for as Topping, LST or any type of trimming after a lot of research and debate with myself I think I am going to let them grow on their own. How else am I going to be able to have a baseline to compare whats better if I don't start out with the natural grow first.
Don't get me wrong I will eventually try all of these down the road, But I think I need to grow them naturally this first time and focus on the basics first then move on from there.

Thank you...thank you...thank you.

I am SO tired of noob growers trying anything and everything to "improve" their yield, but they have no idea what a baseline yield would be. Everyone on here sings the praises of topping and LST all day long and I can't stand it. Some strains respond well, others TERRIBLY and people just don't realize it. They figure LST and topping or FIM always improves yield and I can tell you from ACTUAL experience that isn't the case. I LSTed two plants in my latest crop and topped one (on accident) to keep my canopy even and those 3 plants were far worse than the others. Granted, if I had given them an extra couple of weeks after training they may have evened out or even surpasse the others, but the reality is that its not best in every situation and I often avoid it.

 

[TwoTokeSmoke]

FarmerJoe, the plants seems to be doing pretty good. The bottom leaves on the first set of serrated leaves (single leaf) are Yellow (school bus yellow) and the next set of leaves (3 bladed leaf) are a slight lime green to a slight yellow. The rest of the plant looks very good, they are 10"-12" tall now and are really starting to fill out nice.
I haven't been real concerned with the yellowing of the bottom 2 leaves yet as the yellowing was very slow and dont seem to be moving up the plant any further. Or should I be worried about this? is it a early sign of an issue?
My camera took a shit, I need to get a new one and will post pictures soon.

As far as the LST and topping Yes, I have checked out subcools thread on topping and like I said I feel I need to be able to understand the growing process, become successful with that and have a baseline then I will try new things.

 

[TwoTokeSmoke]

Well I spent last night reading up and I wanted to ask you guys if you think the bottom leaves could be yellowing and lime green color could be from the N being to low?? I am just wondering if my soil has enough N in it based on what I "have read". Any advice???
I will try and get a picture up today even if I have to use my phone.

 

[laserbrn]

Definitely sounds like a nitrogen deficiency. Post a pic (without the light on ding dong). It's not a huge concern and it's easily rectified, although I'm not an organic grower as we've been over. That would concern me a bit that your plants got a little burn straight away on the tips, but then showed N def. within a week? I'm not organic expert, but that sounds like shite.

 

[farmerjoe420]

put a pic up so we can see.

 

[TwoTokeSmoke]

Ok guys, here are a couple of pictures of the yellowing. The quality is not the best as I took it with my phone.
Let me know what you think.

 

[TwoTokeSmoke]

The first picture you can see the bottom leaf is very yellow and then the next leaf up is slightly yellow then as you move up the plant it goes to a nice green. If you look at the leaf tips farther up you can see some slight yellowing on the tips this is what it looked like soon after I transplanted into the new soil but has never gotten any worse or better.
The second picture is shows the bottom yellow leaf then to the yellow/lime green then green up the plant farther. You can see the secondary branches coming in and to me they look a little on the pale green side. Or is this normal for new growth to come in this light of a green??
The third picture is just the bottom leaf all yellow.
The yellow leafs have slowly turned yellow over time and continued to yellow now some of them are dried up almost crispy to the touch.
Hope this helps give a better picture. I know the quality may not be the best but at least I dont have the HPS shinning on them like a "ding dong".....LOL

 

[laserbrn]

I would say you definitely have a nitrogen deficiency. Bump up the N my friend! I believe for organics the general method is to top dress the soil, BUT, I could be wrong. I am a little concerned about your soil mix. Signs of burning and deficiency shouldn't go hand and hand. I mean, overfeeding will cause toxicity and lockout which will show as deficiency, but your plant looks geniunely N deficient. Is there a tea that can be made or a top dressing that should be done? It gets difficult for me because I'm not an organic grower.

 

[farmerjoe420]

i dont think it is deficent. the bottom leaves, are more than likely becoming yellow because they are receving less light. its normal and nothing to worry about. if i were you, i would get a bottle of fish emulsion 5-1-1 to be on the safe side and keep it on hand just in case. fish emulsion is fast acting so if you do need a little extra N, you got it covered.