Aerocloners WTF! 5th Try and I'm Still Failing. What's Wrong?

[baggednismo]

Alright, this cloner is trying my fucking patience. As mentioned I am on the 5th batch of 30 clones (thats 150 total cuttings) and i havent gotten a single rooted clone yet... Obviously im doing something wrong, what is it?!?!

I have 4 different strains right now, BBxAK47, GP, SAGE, & POGK. All of the mothers are flushed 2 weeks prior to clipping and the cuttings go straight into cups of water. The clones *all 4 strains* that i put in rockwool root in 7 days flat w/ 98% survival rate.

details-
home made aerocloner 200gph pump w/ 22 360deg sprayers. everything under the lid stays soaking wet 24/7!
light is on 24/7 *small household bulb, also tried t5's 7-10ft away and 400watt about 20ft away*
ceiling fan moves are constantly
room temp 68-74F
water temp 65-70F *tried warmer and cooler w/ same results*
water cont. PH 6.0 EC .02 *tried ph 5 & ec .1*
duct tape over the lid w/ small punctured holes for stems

method-
after cleaning scissors & razor blade with alcohol, I trim the desired cuttings from the flushed mother at >45deg, some are smaller and some are larger *i dont discriminate * and immediately put them in a cup of water *specs above*. After taking all of the clones and allowing them at least 2hrs to soften in water *tried overnight in the fridge in water* I then dip them in a cloning solution or gel *Olivias or Clonex*. This particular time around I put a couple of each in the 4 different kinds of prep nutes to test 1 vs the other. I have also tried scraping the outside of the stem prior to and after dipping in solution. I then turn on the pump and start placing each cutting through its own tiny hole in the duct tape. The pump is non-stop from the day I put the clones in the hole until im ready to transplant but i havent made it that far.

effects-
The clones usually only last for about 4-5 days, most will rot the stem off or become brittle enough that the sprayers take them off. the foliage turns a darker green and shrivels up on the duct tape. This is day 5 now, last night 1/8 were dying off, this morning 1/4 of the clones were dying, and now tonight 3/4 are dying.

any help from experienced aerocloners would be greatly appreciated.

 

[disposition84]

Give more clarity on this duct tape lid you're talking about. I would imagine that if the duct tape
adhesive is mixing with the nute mix you're going to have big problems right there.

Try a timer with 1 min on 4 min off, I've found this to help cut down on my rotten stems a TON
as they don't need 24/7 moisture.

 

[baggednismo]

I would imagine that the adhesive is mixing, the duct tape is covering the entire lid which is swiss cheesed 3/4" holes. I realize that im being a bit petty not buying sleeves for the holes but they dont make sleeves as small as i want them and im just not going to spend $.50+ a piece for over sized circles. I did some searching for a hole punch in that size but all i found was tools that would destroy the inner circle.

where do you find a timer that functions by-the-minute? The smallest I have is 15min intervals, standard timer.

thanks for the fast reply

 

[Beansly]

Cycle timers. there are cheaper ones if you look.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=552&q=cycle+timers&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=17121581960175634048&sa=X&ei=WRLKTaGmLZDPiALrx9mYBQ&ved=0CKIBEPMCMAU#

 

[disposition84]

Cheap 1 min cycle timers

http://cgi.ebay.com/Repeat-Cycle-Timer-40min-Hydroponic-Aeroponic-EZcloner-/290561167954?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a6cb9252

http://cgi.ebay.com/Repeat-Cycle-Timer-50-Sec-Intervals-Aero-Hydroponics-/220780316904?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33678848e8

There are several cheap solutions to your "hole" problem. I've seen some people use straws or small tubing as stems to put their clones in,
as well as using styrofoam cups cut to your size you want, and even people cut their own plugs using childrens swim toys and childrens play
mats found at walmart. The childrens play mats are a good thickness I've heard and are pretty cheap.

 

[DrtyBngWtr]

They arent big enough to swim yet. The mixing of your nutes and tape arent a good thing but most of all your drowning them. 1 on and 4 off is good for clones like DISP said. Its what I use. have same setup for my vegger, but its 1 on and 5 off. Them guys need a breather. Its like Chinese water tourcher for them right now. Got my timers at home depot. I think the box said something like digital 24 hour multi timer.

 

[toastycookies]

can you get pics of your setup? i just built my first aerocloner as well and have had over 80% success rate my first time... and i took cuttings from plants over 4 weeks into flowering... i can throw up some pics if you'd like...

 

[disposition84]

One more thing....

You should try oxygenating your nute mix this will help keep the DO levels up and
should help your success.

 

[The420Guru]

Alright, this cloner is trying my fucking patience. As mentioned I am on the 5th batch of 30 clones (thats 150 total cuttings) and i havent gotten a single rooted clone yet... Obviously im doing something wrong, what is it?!?!

I have 4 different strains right now, BBxAK47, GP, SAGE, & POGK. All of the mothers are flushed 2 weeks prior to clipping and the cuttings go straight into cups of water. The clones *all 4 strains* that i put in rockwool root in 7 days flat w/ 98% survival rate.

details-
home made aerocloner 200gph pump w/ 22 360deg sprayers. everything under the lid stays soaking wet 24/7!
light is on 24/7 *small household bulb, also tried t5's 7-10ft away and 400watt about 20ft away*
ceiling fan moves are constantly
room temp 68-74F
water temp 65-70F *tried warmer and cooler w/ same results*
water cont. PH 6.0 EC .02 *tried ph 5 & ec .1*
duct tape over the lid w/ small punctured holes for stems

method-
after cleaning scissors & razor blade with alcohol, I trim the desired cuttings from the flushed mother at >45deg, some are smaller and some are larger *i dont discriminate * and immediately put them in a cup of water *specs above*. After taking all of the clones and allowing them at least 2hrs to soften in water *tried overnight in the fridge in water* I then dip them in a cloning solution or gel *Olivias or Clonex*. This particular time around I put a couple of each in the 4 different kinds of prep nutes to test 1 vs the other. I have also tried scraping the outside of the stem prior to and after dipping in solution. I then turn on the pump and start placing each cutting through its own tiny hole in the duct tape. The pump is non-stop from the day I put the clones in the hole until im ready to transplant but i havent made it that far.

effects-
The clones usually only last for about 4-5 days, most will rot the stem off or become brittle enough that the sprayers take them off. the foliage turns a darker green and shrivels up on the duct tape. This is day 5 now, last night 1/8 were dying off, this morning 1/4 of the clones were dying, and now tonight 3/4 are dying.

any help from experienced aerocloners would be greatly appreciated.

Had this issue one time. You are not drowning them if it is aero but you may be heating up your water to much if your pumps are on 24/7. Although in aero with no medium like a rapid rooter starter plug or rock wool you want to make sure if you do use a timer that it is only off for short times. Also I would not flush your mom plants. I would take cuttings from a healthy fed growing mom. I think what may happen is when you flush then cut... the new cuttings do not really have any growing nutes already in them because of 2 weeks of flushing the moms but still do not think that would effect it to much not sure though never cloned off a mom that was flushed for 2 weeks. Try to stop flushing and check water temps keep temp below 85 and try cutting a well fed mom. This may/may not help but is a thought.

 

[baggednismo]

thanks for the replys

im waiting for a 60min cycle timer to show up and some neoprene sheeting to make the guard and something to put the plants into. I have never used an air pump in my res but I probably should grab one for the clones. hopefully the way i imagined the sheeting it will also help keep the bucket from leaking. I used a deep tote from home depot but the lid if not weather striped then it leaks like a bastard, this is also why i chose not to use 2in net cups. I also used 6 computer fan screws around the lid to squeeze it down but it still leaks a bit.

As for the mothers, i usually dont flush them prior to cutting until recently when sussing out the problem. I read somewhere to do so but i have noticed with rockwool that it takes an average of 3 extra days to root clones from a flushed mother.

toastycookies, I will send you over some pics of it once I get it running perfectly.

 

[disposition84]

Best cheap way at getting totes to stop leaking is to flip the lid upside down
and run some plastic liners (cut up trash bags) around the edges of the lid. This
will force the water to fall downward instead of climb into seams and work its
way onto your floor

Just run a bit of extra plastic so you can ensure the water will never reach the tape
and have adhesive issues.

 

[Clown Baby]

You need a bigger pump.
Set it on a timer. something like 30 on, 30 off. 15 on, 15 off, etc.
Give them some time without the pump running.
Add an airstone.

And consider using 2" neoprene collars. instead of just jamming your cuttings in some duct tape.

My first 2 aeroclones runs failed pretty badly, but making the above changes, i have 95+% success now.
good luck brotha.

Also, you don't really need to pH the water. Plain tap water should be ok.
pH affects nutrient uptake.
You are just feeding these water, they shouldnt be getting nutrients anyways.

 

[Clown Baby]

you can put some duct tape around the top edges of the tote to stop leaks.
dont put it flush. put it like this _/\_ kind of loose.

 

[baggednismo]

If i use my tap water then it will be hard 9ph w/ heavy sulfur. I dont ph the water, i leave the bottled water alone and only use the nute dip on the cuttings. I just happened to test the ph to make sure it wasnt for some reason really low or high. I went back over my idea for neoprene sheeting and its not going to work the way i want it to so im back to 2in collars. I just ordered 70 of them and the cycle timer came in yesterday so In a week or so i will have another batch going and hopefully I will get a surviving batch.

you really think i need a pump larger than 200gph? there is only 5gallons of water max in the tub and it moves the water really well, the spray is almost too hard.

disposition84 - that sounds like the best leak prevention yet! cant believe i didnt think of that lol.

 

[Saerimmner]

if your having that much trouble with it just do what i did buy a £40 cheapo cloner http://www.igrowponics.com/index.php?/vmchk/propagation-systems/x-stream-12-propagator.html, (note: i didnt buy it from here this is just to show you the model) fill it with tap water, let it run for a few hours, put clones in an bang roots in 6-8 days without fail

 

[303]

I have 100% rate with no timer, why the timer one min on one min off? Can someone make sense to me why..?

 

[Saerimmner]

I have 100% rate with no timer, why the timer one min on one min off? Can someone make sense to me why..?

i dont use a timer either but apparently using a timer is to allow oxygen to the rootzone or something and so its not constantly wet, load of bollocks if you ask me as mine runs 24/7 an not a hint of a problem

 

[iPACKEDthisBOWL4TWO]

You might wanna try a simple bubble cloner. I made one out of a Tupperware plastic shoe box thing from WalFart. Same concept as a dwc bucket but way smaller. It usually takes about 10 to 12 days to start shooting roots. My stems always turn a little brown but this never effected my clones. Now I only had enough space on the lid to drill six 2" holes. Buy some 2" net pots, cut off the bottom of the net pot, insert neoprene puck and bam! A perfect little cloner. The only thing I use besides Ph'd water is a rooting gel on the stem and I have had 100% success my friend. Just thought I would throw that out there for ya!

 

[baggednismo]

303 - they say not to run the pump 24/7 so that it allows oxygen to the stems but also to allow your pump to cool and not turn the bucket into a sauna. Helps to prevent stem rot which is most certainly what im battling especially w/ a 200gph pump.

Saerimmner - My buddy just picked up one of those cheapies and he also got a nice size bubble cloner similar to what iPACKEDthisBOWL4TWO was mentioning. He seems to be excited about them so if they work i guess i can check them out for myself but im confident that when i get this tote functioning properly it will work well.

I have plenty of 2" net pots as i got them for this project but without neoprene the water splashed everywhere and were impractical. As mentioned the neoprene collars are on their way so i will have what i need soon enough.<br>

 

[toastycookies]

here's my current cloning project... 15 site DIY job. lemme know if you have any questions.

pump is on a timer, 1min on, 4min off.

clones were taking with off 4+week flowering plants. took about 2 weeks to start rooting. just well water around 8.1pH and a little bit of clonex... temps stay around 65-70F at 60% RH.