Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

[summitoker]

My ladies have been on a veganic diet for a while now and they are so happy and healthy! I have been way to busy to brew any teas so i have been using the earth nectar/ambrosia combo and the ladies love it. Best of all i have not touched my ph meter in a couple weeks. Ill start getting pics up when 12/12 starts!

 

[NightbirdX]

Happy for the update Matt and good luck in your endeavors, it sounds like you are busy, but it also sounds like fun.

My grow is also going much better once I cut the soil in half with a soilless medium. Straight Happy Frog was just too much for them. I still am having issues with my plants in flowering, but the plants in veg are getting ridiculous. My 2 Apollo 13 and White Rhino are about the size of the plants I just sent into flowering and are only 2 weeks into veg. I am still tinkering with my dosage levels on my BioCanna line, but I am not burning anymore plants, lol.

 

[upthearsenal]

What breeder is your White Rhine, NightbirdX? or is a clone only...

 

[NightbirdX]

A friend gave us a mother plant that he couldn't keep anymore, and I took cuts from it. I don't know where it came from originally though. He didn't remember as the mother had also been passed to him. He brought some of the final product in a few weeks back and if it wasn't White Rhino, it was from the White line. I would say it is real deal though.

 

[upthearsenal]

Nice, I want to try Medicine Man which is essentially White Rhino.

Anyways, my Cough yellowed up like crazy mid flower, and I think I'm going to continue using a mixture of Flores and Vega, I was reading one of Uncle Bens threads and he talked about using N till the end, at least for some strains that need it

 

[NightbirdX]

They are supposed to be starting to yellow up during the second half right? lol. I am going to be doing a gradual introduction of Flores. Basically this is the first week of flower and I am going 4ml of Vega, next week will be 3 vega/1 flores, then 2 vega/2 flores, 1 vega/3 flores, then into 4+ml and up of the flores and then introducing the BioBoost.

My White Rhinos are kinda puzzling me. I read somewhere that they like a heavy feeding regimen and mine were quite limp and the stems were deep purple, so I doubled the feeding from 4ml Vega to 8ml of Vega and went with 4ml Cannazyme and 4 of Rhizotonic. The purple stems are going away, but they are still looking limp, but took the nutrient boost really well. But they are still going limp in the evenings. Not sure what is up with that. It grows real big, but can be really fickle some times.

 

[Matt Rize]

They are supposed to be starting to yellow up during the second half right? lol. I am going to be doing a gradual introduction of Flores. Basically this is the first week of flower and I am going 4ml of Vega, next week will be 3 vega/1 flores, then 2 vega/2 flores, 1 vega/3 flores, then into 4+ml and up of the flores and then introducing the BioBoost.

My White Rhinos are kinda puzzling me. I read somewhere that they like a heavy feeding regimen and mine were quite limp and the stems were deep purple, so I doubled the feeding from 4ml Vega to 8ml of Vega and went with 4ml Cannazyme and 4 of Rhizotonic. The purple stems are going away, but they are still looking limp, but took the nutrient boost really well. But they are still going limp in the evenings. Not sure what is up with that. It grows real big, but can be really fickle some times.

Sounds like low pH in your soil. Peat + biocanna (any organic) nutes = acidic. Try watering with a 7.0 pH and the purple should go away.

 

[Matt Rize]

Simple Tea from MM:

1 gallon = 16 cups = 256 tablespoons

2.38% by volume compost or vermicompost (EWC) per gallon = .38 cups or around half a cup max or about 2 cups in 5 gallons max.

0.5 to 0.75% molasses by volume per gallon = 1.28 to 1.92 tablespoons per gallon. 0.75% is the maximum I use. It is a good bacterial and fungal food.

0.063% fish hydrolysate by volume per gallon = 0.16 tablespoon = 0.479 teaspoons or half a teaspoon

0.25% (max) kelpmeal by volume per gallon = 0.64 tablespoon or half a tablespoon

 

[upthearsenal]

They are supposed to be starting to yellow up during the second half right? lol. I am going to be doing a gradual introduction of Flores. Basically this is the first week of flower and I am going 4ml of Vega, next week will be 3 vega/1 flores, then 2 vega/2 flores, 1 vega/3 flores, then into 4+ml and up of the flores and then introducing the BioBoost.

My White Rhinos are kinda puzzling me. I read somewhere that they like a heavy feeding regimen and mine were quite limp and the stems were deep purple, so I doubled the feeding from 4ml Vega to 8ml of Vega and went with 4ml Cannazyme and 4 of Rhizotonic. The purple stems are going away, but they are still looking limp, but took the nutrient boost really well. But they are still going limp in the evenings. Not sure what is up with that. It grows real big, but can be really fickle some times.

Maybe towards the end of the second half, but not five weeks in, at least IMO. I'd recommend checking out Uncle Ben's threads, you can find them in the Advanced Cultivation section. Here's a little excerpt from one of the threads: "Foliage production - Grow for the most amount of foliage you can going into the flowering response. Maintain those leaves in a green and healthy condition up until harvest, even if it means switching fertilizer to a high N value, like a 9-3-6. "

I don't plan on keepin' em green UNTIL harvest, but at least till the last couple weeks, maybe the last ten days. I lost a lot of leafs due to N def, and I can clearly see how this is going to affect my yield. I've never ever followed any kind of feeding schedule, and now that I am I feel like it isn't working for me (or at least a couple of my strains), and I should just stick to reading what my plants need to keep them green.

My Cat. Kush used to go limp in the evenings, and I figured it might have been because of the temp flux from day to night... However I'm not sure, it was weird though.

 

[NightbirdX]

Sounds like low pH in your soil. Peat + biocanna (any organic) nutes = acidic. Try watering with a 7.0 pH and the purple should go away.

I will keep that in mind Matt. I heard that White Rhino is a heavy eater and have upped my dosages in my feeding schedule. The purpling has lessened quite a bit in one day and I will be sure to check that again tomorrow.

I was under the assumption that you do not have to pH your water when using the BioCanna line. Should I not believe that? I have checked it a few times and it has been in the pH 6 range after nutrients are added. It is just the White Rhino's also. The other plants are doing alright on the same dosages. I'll just have to tinker with it. Would an off pH cause the plants to wilt in the evening and look good in the mornings?

 

[NightbirdX]

Maybe towards the end of the second half, but not five weeks in, at least IMO. I'd recommend checking out Uncle Ben's threads, you can find them in the Advanced Cultivation section. Here's a little excerpt from one of the threads: "Foliage production - Grow for the most amount of foliage you can going into the flowering response. Maintain those leaves in a green and healthy condition up until harvest, even if it means switching fertilizer to a high N value, like a 9-3-6. "

I don't plan on keepin' em green UNTIL harvest, but at least till the last couple weeks, maybe the last ten days. I lost a lot of leafs due to N def, and I can clearly see how this is going to affect my yield. I've never ever followed any kind of feeding schedule, and now that I am I feel like it isn't working for me (or at least a couple of my strains), and I should just stick to reading what my plants need to keep them green.

My Cat. Kush used to go limp in the evenings, and I figured it might have been because of the temp flux from day to night... However I'm not sure, it was weird though.

Ya I must have misread that. I thought you meant that you were later into the harvest. Our plants that we are using Fox Farms on are just getting their flush and are starting to yellow up and some of them are even purpling and turning red. It's pretty cool.

I don't really go by the schedule either. I am slowly increasing so that I will be going by the schedule, but after my burn issues, I am very skittish. My plants are now taking 8ml Vega, 5ml Cannazyme and 5ml Rhizotonic. I am trying to be brave and raise it and watch how my plants respond and they are doing so beautifully.

I'm just nervous about adding in full doses of Rhizotonic and Cannazym. Someone suggested that since the only constant that hasn't changed in my other plants was the Cannazym and Rhizo dosage levels and I was still getting burn, the problem may stem from the Rhizo and 'zym. I cut back to 1/3- 1/2 dosage on those and they are doing great. I figured that the Rhizo and 'zym were important, but feeding the plants was more important so I cut back the supplements and upped the Vega. The plants are doing fine except for the limpness in the evening. Things thus far are going much better than the first grow though with the BioCanna line.

 

[coolupdscene]

about that tea matt...there are differrent kinds of molasses and we want to make sure we are using UNSULPHURED molasses...also blackstrap is the best for nutrient quantity i use 1tbsp per gallon in my flowering but also brehr rabbit is lower in nutrient qality so its good for veg cause u still get the same amt. of carbohydrates(sugars) as blackstrap but u dont have to lower your dosage (still 1tbsp pergallon) for smaller plants while ur still providing carbs for the microherd but not too much nutes for the plant...I mean i use a lower NPK ratio for veg 8-4-1(grows like some jack and the beanstalk shit, super thick and fat,growing so fast it almost scares me) dry soil mix in the soil so the lower amt. of potassium in brehr molasses is a better balance to this while in flowering i switch to having the nutes in the tea so blackstrap is a better NPK balance for this. Ive generally figured that based on waht the bottles say Blackstrap is about 3-4% potassium while Brehr is 1-2% potassium.

 

[RPsmoke420]

Maybe towards the end of the second half, but not five weeks in, at least IMO. I'd recommend checking out Uncle Ben's threads, you can find them in the Advanced Cultivation section. Here's a little excerpt from one of the threads: "Foliage production - Grow for the most amount of foliage you can going into the flowering response. Maintain those leaves in a green and healthy condition up until harvest, even if it means switching fertilizer to a high N value, like a 9-3-6. "

I don't plan on keepin' em green UNTIL harvest, but at least till the last couple weeks, maybe the last ten days. I lost a lot of leafs due to N def, and I can clearly see how this is going to affect my yield. I've never ever followed any kind of feeding schedule, and now that I am I feel like it isn't working for me (or at least a couple of my strains), and I should just stick to reading what my plants need to keep them green.

My Cat. Kush used to go limp in the evenings, and I figured it might have been because of the temp flux from day to night... However I'm not sure, it was weird though.

Great point, and Uncle Ben knows his stuff.

However, I disagree with how "green" you want your plant. IMO, it is better to have the plant go through her "fall colors" near harvest. I prefer the smoke at least. I have also read some interesting studies on high N fertilizer in flower, and low THC content (hemp production). In Hemp, that would be a good thing. I'll see if I can pull up the pdf. I know I have it somewhere.

So, I think it is a delicate balance between too much, and too little. Like you said, I have cut back too soon, and felt I lost some yield.

I wonder if a silicate additive would help with the limp plants? Not sure... but it'd be fun to play with. Suppose to "strengthen the cell walls".

I will keep that in mind Matt. I heard that White Rhino is a heavy eater and have upped my dosages in my feeding schedule. The purpling has lessened quite a bit in one day and I will be sure to check that again tomorrow.

I was under the assumption that you do not have to pH your water when using the BioCanna line. Should I not believe that? I have checked it a few times and it has been in the pH 6 range after nutrients are added. It is just the White Rhino's also. The other plants are doing alright on the same dosages. I'll just have to tinker with it. Would an off pH cause the plants to wilt in the evening and look good in the mornings?

generally, after mixing everything my pH is about perfect and I don't have to adjust. But I would still recommend checking it. Just to know.

about that tea matt...there are differrent kinds of molasses and we want to make sure we are using UNSULPHURED molasses...also blackstrap is the best for nutrient quantity i use 1tbsp per gallon in my flowering but also brehr rabbit is lower in nutrient qality so its good for veg cause u still get the same amt. of carbohydrates(sugars) as blackstrap but u dont have to lower your dosage (still 1tbsp pergallon) for smaller plants while ur still providing carbs for the microherd but not too much nutes for the plant...I mean i use a lower NPK ratio for veg 8-4-1(grows like some jack and the beanstalk shit, super thick and fat,growing so fast it almost scares me) dry soil mix in the soil so the lower amt. of potassium in brehr molasses is a better balance to this while in flowering i switch to having the nutes in the tea so blackstrap is a better NPK balance for this. Ive generally figured that based on waht the bottles say Blackstrap is about 3-4% potassium while Brehr is 1-2% potassium.

Interesting info. I've always just rocked the unsulphered black strap. I've also used Grandma's Original unsulphered in the past. Also helps to neutralize chlorine and cholromines in the water.

 

[beeznutz]

I'm having a yellowing and burn of leaves right now and I'm just about a month in flowering.... I think there are a few things going on, probably nute burn being one of them- just flushed em last night, when should I give them food again? ppm was at 800 for about a week then gave them 900 4 days ago after doing a flush thinking they are N deficient, dunno if that was the right thing to do cause leaves are turning yellow from outside tips and edges inward and I'm also getting the tips/edges turning brown, everything is freaking me out but the weird thing the buds r getting huge and smell good and all the leaves r pointing (not curling ) up so no drooping....
Never checked ph anymore. in fact I broke my meter so never got anotha.... but my understanding is that with organics (I'm using General Organics) u don't need as nutes are available at a wider range of ph, no?
...interesting point about Uncle Ben talking about using more N even in flowering, maybe I just need to cut on other supplements and find some way to jus add more N? BioThrive Bloom has a ratio of 2-4-4.....
btw, I'm growing in hempy buckets with neutral ph perlite....

 

[Matt Rize]

I'm having a yellowing and burn of leaves right now and I'm just about a month in flowering.... I think there are a few things going on, probably nute burn being one of them- just flushed em last night, when should I give them food again? ppm was at 800 for about a week then gave them 900 4 days ago after doing a flush thinking they are N deficient, dunno if that was the right thing to do cause leaves are turning yellow from outside tips and edges inward and I'm also getting the tips/edges turning brown, everything is freaking me out but the weird thing the buds r getting huge and smell good and all the leaves r pointing (not curling ) up so no drooping....
Never checked ph anymore. in fact I broke my meter so never got anotha.... but my understanding is that with organics (I'm using General Organics) u don't need as nutes are available at a wider range of ph, no?
...interesting point about Uncle Ben talking about using more N even in flowering, maybe I just need to cut on other supplements and find some way to jus add more N? BioThrive Bloom has a ratio of 2-4-4.....
btw, I'm growing in hempy buckets with neutral ph perlite....

900ppm is very high. I usually stay between 400 and 700, but I grow in a peat media called bioterra plus, and as the media breaks down it releases nutrients. They sound overwatered and overfed, search for affects of overwatering and you will see yellowing on the leaf margins.

 

[beeznutz]

900ppm is very high. I usually stay between 400 and 700, but I grow in a peat media called bioterra plus, and as the media breaks down it releases nutrients. They sound overwatered and overfed, search for affects of overwatering and you will see yellowing on the leaf margins.

its what i figured jus....a bit late
damn it, lost my notes for the last crop although that was in soil, i wonder how much difference that makes.
so you keep it that low, a month in flowering? how hi do u take it? what was ur ppm before u switched to 12/12
and do u drop it after switching then bring it back up?
looked up biocanna but couldn't find ANY info on their site, no nute ratio or ingredients- what's up with that?
GO is the same.....why can't we have the info available on first sight? that seems so basic, OMRI or not....

 

[beeznutz]

anotha thing Matt, do u share the same feelings as far as the 'no ph adjustment' goes?

 

[Matt Rize]

its what i figured jus....a bit late
damn it, lost my notes for the last crop although that was in soil, i wonder how much difference that makes.
so you keep it that low, a month in flowering? how hi do u take it? what was ur ppm before u switched to 12/12
and do u drop it after switching then bring it back up?
looked up biocanna but couldn't find ANY info on their site, no nute ratio or ingredients- what's up with that?
GO is the same.....why can't we have the info available on first sight? that seems so basic, OMRI or not....

These nute companies are scoundrels. If their damn stuff didn't work so well I sure wouldn't use it. I top out ppm around 700. Then start going back down about 4 weeks into flower, growing for quality not yield. Also in organics not everything is going to register on your ppm pen, only a percent, like 80% but that just a guess and depends on your nutes. There is very little "green" left in my leaves at harvest. The last couple weeks are just sucanant and seaweed.

I pH everything all the time, especially my foliar solutions. pH is really important (so is water alkalinity, especially for hydro), and even if you are not adjusting your pH, watching it give you valuable info. The pH scale is exponential, meaning the different between 6.0 and 6.1 is small, but the difference between 6.0 and 6.5 is huge. Say the difference between 6.0 and 6.1 is "x". The difference between 6.0 and 6.5 is "x" to the fifth power.

I apologize for the short answers, I'm trying to build some threads over at medicalmarijuana.com. They gave me my own sub forum and made me mod

post edit: using peat and organic nutes will mean your soil pH drops over time. I adjust my nute solution pH up in flower to combat this. Up to 7.0 sometimes. This keeps the stems green.

 

[beeznutz]

no prb Matt- apreciate ur input no matter how short....
can't wait to c whatcha got goin on over @medicalmarijuana...

 

[first be]

IMO, it is better to have the plant go through her "fall colors" near harvest. I prefer the smoke at least. I have also read some interesting studies on high N fertilizer in flower, and low THC content (hemp production). In Hemp, that would be a good thing.