klassifyme
Active Member
can you please describe your pasteurization process ?
Bulk Mushrooms - Wild Bird Seed Spawned to Horse Manure Mix
- Thread starter someone else
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someone else
Active Member
Like I said brother, I'll be spawning the jars of WBS to the pasteurized horse manure mix in the next week or so.
When I do, I'll provide pictures and video, along with a detailed description of what's going on.
If I do it now, without pics, the detail behind what's going on could be 'lost in translation', so to speak.
inverselogic
Member
Heya, your system looks pro =). I have a few questions for ya if you don't mind.
What is the volume of your jars?
Can you describe your sterilization process for the jars?(size of the pressure cooker, aluminum foil??, ways to ensure success)
Oh, and thanks for destroying Ohio St. =), GO DUCKS!
What is the volume of your jars?
Can you describe your sterilization process for the jars?(size of the pressure cooker, aluminum foil??, ways to ensure success)
Oh, and thanks for destroying Ohio St. =), GO DUCKS!
someone else
Active Member
Well the volume of these jars shouldn't be known honestly, hahaha. I'm not being difficult, I just don't want people to think using this large of a jar is a good idea.
It's not.
Why?
Because it takes the mycelium (even under optimal conditions) so long to colonize such a large container, you run a higher risk of contams from the uncolonized WBS, of the WBS drying out, etc. Lots of potential problems with larger jars for the first time bulk grower.
It's often recommended by others much more wise than I to use 1 quart jars, like in the picture I posted a few posts up:
Kerr or Ball are two of the larger makers of 1 quart jars I'd recommend.
You can find them at any large supermarket (especially during the fall for canning fruits/vegs), or at any large box store for less than $10 for a case of 12 quart jars, with bands and lids.
You fill the jars 2/3 full (NOT like I did...hehe) of bird seed.
You want to drill at least one hole in the center of the lids (small nail preferably).
You then cover the hole with 1 strip of this tape:
CVS, Walgreens, Walmart, etc. has this micropore tape for about $4:
http://www.cvs.com/CVSApp/catalog/shop_product_detail.jsp?skuId=259271&productId=259271&WT.mc_id=Shopping_Feed_Products_Google_Free_Listing
The purpose for the tape and hole is to allow for air exchange (pressure exchange) when PCing (Pressure Cooking), so the jars don't explode...hehe. The tape also allows for just enough air flow once the jars have been inoculated, after PCing. They don't need a lot of air, but the colonizing jars greatly benefit from at least some fresh air flow while colonizing. The tape filters out harmful bacteria, but allows for a fraction of air transfer.
(there's actually a DIFFERENT way to do the filter thing using polyfil that I generally recommend, but this works well also)
You place the lids on the jars, fasten the band snug, but slightly LOOSE (very important point to remember). This allows for additional pressure release during pressure cooking.
***You have to realize that you are cooking the moisture out of the WBS grain, grain that had been soaking for hours beforehand in steamed water. The pressure that's created while PCing is 15 pounds on every square inch of the container, and if you don't loosen the lids, you're forcing all of the pressure to be released by that one small hole you drilled in the lid. That's not enough, and it'll eventually blow the tape right off the lid during PCing the pressure is so great. So, keep the lids SLIGHTLY loose.***
So you have your jar lids with holes in them, tape over the holes, and aluminum foil covering the entire lid/band that's now on the sealed jar.
It's a fairly standard time to PC the jars for 90 minutes. What this means is once you have the PC chamber sealed up, you have to heat the Pressure Cooker until it comes to 15 PSI. You then turn the burner temp down until the steam is just rocking the rocker slightly. Then, once you are at THAT point, you start the Timer down 90 minutes.
Let it do its thing for 90 mins, turn off the heat, and let it cool enough until it's safe to release the PC lid. This can take over an hour sometimes, depending on how big your PC is. (I'M USING A 16 QUART PC)
Once you remove the lid, and the jars are safe to handle with a pair of oven mits, shake the jars up really well. This distributes any moisture that's in the jar evenly, also breaking up bits of WBS that have stuck together during cooking.
You set them aside for an hour, then shake them like before. Do this every hour for 3 hours, then set them aside to cool for another 5 before inoculation (with either spores directly like I did, or with a spore syringe/liquid culture solution.
The above numbers aren't arbitrary either; those are times that I've found worked well.
Not saying it's the only way, but it's a way that works well.
I have videos I could post too, although there is this weird blue polarization thing that happened to the camera, so everything has a blue hinge to it.
someone else
Active Member
Just thought I'd pop up a few pics of the colonizing jars.
Not much to see, except maybe a little progress in colonization.
One of the jars has stagnated, and just colonized a large chunk at the top and stopped.
The other jars look like they're progressing very normally.
I have the jars in a closet, with a space heater (there's no danger, I've worked it out), and the temp hovers at about the 78-86 F. temperature range.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***** Something of note, I inoculated these jars by just scraping unhydrated spores into sterilized substrate (WBS). Typically, you want to hydrate your spores, especially if they've been sitting as prints for a year or more (like mine were).*****
So really, I'm lucky at this point to have anything at all. I've actually never germinated spores like this; I've always used Liquid Cultures/Spores that are injected with a syringe.
Anyway, I like the jars progress, all things considered.
It looks like this next week I'll be pasteurizing my horse manure mix.
Once the pasteurized manure mix (bulk substrate) cools off, I'll add a layer of it to the bottom of the tub I'll be using. I'll then lay down a layer of colonized WBS, and I'll continue with that pattern until all the colonized WBS is gone. I'll add one more layer of pasteurized manure mix, seal it up with a lid and some tape, cover it, and leave it to sit and re-colonize, which takes anywhere from 7-14 days, depending on many factors (moisture levels, ambient temperature, strain type, etc.).
The manure I'm going to be using is still slowly drying. At this point, all the ammonia from the manure has evaporated, and the manure smells like old compost or earth.
It's still slightly moist, but overall getting dry.
Well that's it, I'll probably update again on Monday or Wednesday, whenever I get around to mixing the bulk substrate (manure mix) up.
Not much to see, except maybe a little progress in colonization.
One of the jars has stagnated, and just colonized a large chunk at the top and stopped.
The other jars look like they're progressing very normally.
I have the jars in a closet, with a space heater (there's no danger, I've worked it out), and the temp hovers at about the 78-86 F. temperature range.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***** Something of note, I inoculated these jars by just scraping unhydrated spores into sterilized substrate (WBS). Typically, you want to hydrate your spores, especially if they've been sitting as prints for a year or more (like mine were).*****
So really, I'm lucky at this point to have anything at all. I've actually never germinated spores like this; I've always used Liquid Cultures/Spores that are injected with a syringe.
Anyway, I like the jars progress, all things considered.
It looks like this next week I'll be pasteurizing my horse manure mix.
Once the pasteurized manure mix (bulk substrate) cools off, I'll add a layer of it to the bottom of the tub I'll be using. I'll then lay down a layer of colonized WBS, and I'll continue with that pattern until all the colonized WBS is gone. I'll add one more layer of pasteurized manure mix, seal it up with a lid and some tape, cover it, and leave it to sit and re-colonize, which takes anywhere from 7-14 days, depending on many factors (moisture levels, ambient temperature, strain type, etc.).
The manure I'm going to be using is still slowly drying. At this point, all the ammonia from the manure has evaporated, and the manure smells like old compost or earth.
It's still slightly moist, but overall getting dry.
Well that's it, I'll probably update again on Monday or Wednesday, whenever I get around to mixing the bulk substrate (manure mix) up.
ndangerspecimen101
Well-Known Member
Packaged and ready for mass head consumptionWell it's just a simple bulk grow...only one large tub.
Last year I ended up with 2 pounds, and that was off of only 2 tubs.
The tub I'll be using is different than last years though, just something I found around the house and it's opaque...which isn't the best for pinning.
Ideally, (IMO) you want a transparent tub, so light can enter to trigger pinning. You don't need much light though, and even the air holes that I've drilled for ventilation work fine for sporadic light.
This grow was merely to test the viability of 1 year-old South American spores. I really half-assed certain parts of this already, although that shouldn't be taken as an indication that this is easy, or that parts of it can be extremely amended.
Growing mushrooms is about sterility when you come right down to it.
IMO, a lack of self, room, and item sterility...and not paying attention to detail...are two of the biggest reasons people fail at growing mushrooms.
I don't wanna sound like a snob though. I mean, I've screwed up a lot along the way. For me, I have to fail a little to learn a lot, and I've done my share of failing...haha.
Nice to see someone going for the big mushroom overhaul. +rep all the way!
someone else
Active Member
Oh yea, most of those are long gone, taking many people, on many journey's.Packaged and ready for mass head consumption
Nice to see someone going for the big mushroom overhaul. +rep all the way!
What's nice about this method I'm using is that it gives you mushrooms for a looooong time.
I've given away many ounces of mushrooms to close friends, friends who I know will treat them with the responsibility and respect that they demand.
Thanks for stopping by!
flawlesscrew
Well-Known Member
So in your opinion is this the best way to produce the most mushrooms with the least amount of issues? I know you said that you got 2 lbs off those kits what do you think your return will be from this experiment? I need a system that produces a large amount. The ways Ive seen done seem like they aren't worth my time doing just to get a couple ounces. Keep in mind Im new to this but I have no problem getting the jars to colonize with very little failure rate. Your post has helped me with a couple steps that i have over looked in the past and I am looking forward to seeing the end results.
someone else
Active Member
Yea, I mean I generated 2 pounds out of 2 tubs last year. It takes most people a lifetime to use that many mushrooms, so yes, this is one of the most efficient methods for producing boomers.
I guess I don't understand your question or your confusion: 2 pounds of mushrooms is a good return on my original minimal investment, and most people couldn't eat that many mushrooms in a lifetime (and be any fun to be around at least...hehe).
If you're producing for any other reason, you'd be getting into a grey area that RIU doesn't encourage discussion about.
someone else
Active Member
Cool, thanks for following along 420!
I've read a lot of your posts and learned a lot.
Things will be getting more interesting in about a week or so...not much to see right now.
wally nutter
Well-Known Member
this is killer. i had my first trip in october and i have since shroomed 5 times now. i absolutely love mushies ooo so much.
so i have a syringe headed my way so i can grow me own
.
this method looks sweet but it think for my first run at it i'm gunna go with brown rice flour and vermiculite.
does the birdseed provide more nutrient?? could you use the birdseed without the poo?
so i have a syringe headed my way so i can grow me own
.this method looks sweet but it think for my first run at it i'm gunna go with brown rice flour and vermiculite.
does the birdseed provide more nutrient?? could you use the birdseed without the poo?
someone else
Active Member
Hey, that's awesome you're gonna give it a shot!this is killer. i had my first trip in october and i have since shroomed 5 times now. i absolutely love mushies ooo so much.
so i have a syringe headed my way so i can grow me own
this method looks sweet but it think for my first run at it i'm gunna go with brown rice flour and vermiculite.
does the birdseed provide more nutrient?? could you use the birdseed without the poo?
I would 100% recommend you use the PF Tek on your first grow. No question.
You learn A LOT from the procedure, and have a greater appreciation for what's needed, and maybe more importantly, why.
Brown rice flour works just fine, especially in PF's recipe. Very nutrient rich.
If anything, it's harder to work with WBS because you have to impregnate the kernels with water through and through, which requires steaming water, soaking, and a lot more time.
One thing to keep in mind with this WBS/Bulk Tek is there are MANY MANY MANY more avenues and possibilities for failure. It's not just some little "tisk tisk tisk, now don't do this..." speech, it's really true.
I've seen so many people fail and just give up because they tried bulk methods right away, and couldn't get anything from it.
Now working with horse manure is a subject that some are very queasy about.
Once you get beyond the fact that it's shit (the perfect organic fertilizer) things will go much more smoothly. Working with DRIED horse manure is like working with DRIED compost. No ammonia/shit smell; just a earthy, natural smell.
Now there are dozens of other nutrient sources (Worm Castings for instance), that work really well. The thing with worm castings are they're expensive and VERY dense, so it's necessary to use less of them to avoid clumping and non-colonization.
Horse manure is just something that I've found is cheap, accessible almost anywhere you go throughout the world, and is what mushrooms grow on naturally in the wild, as it provides an abundant source of essential nutes.
This is just one way that works (very) well for me, not the end-all-beat-all of bulk-boomer teks.
Keep the great questions/comments coming!
We've got over a week before I'm gonna spawn my jars!
wally nutter
Well-Known Member
i keep seeing the PF Tek thing, ill look that up. thanks for the advice!
as for the poo, im not really put off by it, i just dont know about acquiring it.
as for the poo, im not really put off by it, i just dont know about acquiring it.
someone else
Active Member
That's cool man, I can understand that. Look up under the Yellow Pages for nearby 'Horse Stables'. There are horse stables everywhere, you'd be surprised.
For people in major cities without access to the countryside or horse stables/ranges, there are other alternative bulk substrates. I mean, there's almost an inexhaustible list of appropriate bulk subs.
You could substitute worm castings or other manures (like chicken or cow), but horse manure has MUCH more nutrition than most manures.
One reason is because of the high-quality feed that horses usually get over cows/chickens (oats). Secondly, a horse's digestive system leaves enough nutrients available for OUR use of it.
Here's an example of an oat seed that made it past the horses digestive system, then sprouted and germinated in some of the horse manure I'm currently drying outside:
redrum83420
Well-Known Member
does wbs work better then rye grain? ive done bulk substrates, but i dont get flushes like yours tho. i have some coco coir ones going now, their almost ready to be birthed. after dunking is verm the best to roll them in then mist?
wally nutter
Well-Known Member
i have chickenss!!!!
sonar
Well-Known Member
I agree with someone else 100% on this one. I'm by no means a myco expert, but I'd give PF Tek a shot first. I just started fruiting my first batch and just knocked up my second round and have to say, while it does take a little time, it isn't all that difficult. I've been looking into bulk methods myself and decided to stay with pf tek for a little while mainly because of its simplicity. Plus you don't need a pressure cooker for pf tek. Once I get my technique down I might try my hand at some bulk, but for now pf tek is the way to go. Reading and doing research is essential, but it can only take you so far. Nothing beats actual experience IMO.this is killer. i had my first trip in october and i have since shroomed 5 times now. i absolutely love mushies ooo so much.
so i have a syringe headed my way so i can grow me own
this method looks sweet but it think for my first run at it i'm gunna go with brown rice flour and vermiculite.
does the birdseed provide more nutrient?? could you use the birdseed without the poo?
Quick tip if you decide to go the pf tek route and can't find brown rice flour or just want to save some moeny. Just buy plain old brown rice and grind it yourself if you have a blender. a 1 lb bag (like 75 cents) will easily get you 10-12 jars with a little left over. My food process didn't work so well, but my cheap blender ground it up quite nicely. Think I did a 1 lb bag in 3 batches and it's about as fine as anything you'd buy pre-ground.
Speaking of bulk, what do you think about using coco coir instead of horse manure? I wouldn't think coir would have much nutrients, but I've seen a few articles/grows online that people spawn WBS straight to coir with pretty good results. Wouldn't it have to be amended with worm castings or something like that? Maybe I'm looking at it from a cannabis perspective, but coco coir is pretty inert, almost like peat moss. Is the mycelium able to break down the coir and use it? Or am I mistaken and coir is only used as a casing?