USA goes to WAR with mexico, ........

Murfy

Well-Known Member
i was gonna say, that shit looks just like flint-

and they're already here, so why is it some just won't sacrifice to make their condition better, i am only third generation american, and every fuckin day, it's MY fight, i am GONNA get better every day, i have done countless hours of community service, typically for veterans and kids, in my hometown the fruits of my family's labor is evident everywhere, we work hard to make things around us better

and very rarely does it compensate, with money that is, pride, honor, integrity, sense of community, come in abundance

paint the fuckin building, build a goddamn park, feed or clothe your neighbor, plant a community garden, build a veterans memorial, a playground, a sports complex, maybe these folks don't know where to push the wheel, they just need to be told, put your shoulder here and push

i agree, we are a world community, but i will not be subjected to a lesser lifestyle, because of others inability

LIFE IS SHORT, GET YOUR OWN!
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
was gonna say, that shit looks just like flint-

and they're already here, so why is it some just won't sacrifice to make their condition better, i am only third generation american, and every fuckin day, it's MY fight, i am GONNA get better every day, i have done countless hours of community service, typically for veterans and kids, in my hometown the fruits of my family's labor is evident everywhere, we work hard to make things around us better

and very rarely does it compensate, with money that is, pride, honor, integrity, sense of community, come in abundance

paint the fuckin building, build a goddamn park, feed or clothe your neighbor, plant a community garden, build a veterans memorial, a playground, a sports complex,
That is awesome that you do this, I know we need more people like this in Michigan. But you should also maybe think about how maybe they already are sacrificing and their lives are far better than they were by being here in the states. That is why you have so many that work multiple shit jobs for very low prices. It must be far better than what they had before otherwise they would not be here.

maybe these folks don't know where to push the wheel, they just need to be told, put your shoulder here and push
This is poetry it is so good of a statement. We need more people thinking like this. People get so up in arms over the term 'community organizer' back last election, but this is what it means. Get people moving in the right direction show them what and how to do the things that help everyone out and get moving, because otherwise we get stuck in the same stupid cycle. It is not that there is not a way to get out of it, it is that the people that feel that way dont know how to get out of it.

i agree, we are a world community, but i will not be subjected to a lesser lifestyle, because of others inability

LIFE IS SHORT, GET YOUR OWN!
Aside from theft (which doesn't matter where they were born people will steal your shit if they can), how can others subject you to a lesser lifestyle? I don't care what job it is, an illegal immigrant cannot/ shouldn't be able to out compete a American that is willing and able to do the same work. And if it a price war, I am all for the American saying screw it I will work under the table to out compete them if that is what it takes.
 

Murfy

Well-Known Member
thanks hanimmal, you are a gentleman and a scholar-

after pondering this more, this morning, it has brought a tear to the eye of the beast, doing things to help people, out of kindness, and compassion, are exponentially more rewarding for me than dollars

in michigan it is mostly black's, as i'm sure in arizona or cali, it' mostly latino's, that seem to settle, sure once coming from mexico, their lives improve dramatically, simply due to geographics, and that is where it stops, simply look at the pic posted of mexico and detroit
i guess at that point they are subjecting me to less, as i will fix it, and they won't

let's figure out a solution, i am willing to do my part
 

xXF0RE20Xx

Active Member
This is a hard question to ask and not sound like a dick, so just know I am not trying to be one. What if you told them you would work under the table for the same rate? And if you could out roof them maybe they fire one of the other illegal immigrants and gave you their wages if you could get the same amount of work done better?
I wouldnt want the wages they get under the table, im an american, i have bills, mouths to feed, habits to keep up, they work for less and send it back to mexico which turns into almost x3's they had here. $5 bucks might buy me a pack of smokes, while they get a carton in Mexico. Not so much they've taken the jobs, they've killed the business.....theres no money to made because the prices have been dropped to almost nothing.......because they can get 15+ to finish your roof in an hour, with shitty quality might i add. Ive been doing this work for years, the price was $60 per square of installation, it might be 30 tops now in some places. I Can't blame the economy for that, i blame cheap labor, and rich employers.


Dont get me wrong, im not being a dick about it, i have plenty of mexican friends, i just dont agree with coming to america to get yourself rich in 5 years because your countries currency is worth shit. While i bust my ass all the same for less. Maybe i should do what they do, save 10g's and go live like a king.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
My personal take is that we need to first be able to figure out what the issues actually are. Figure out what went wrong and fix them.

In Michigan all we need to do is look at Detroit. My take on that is we go back to just after WWII. Detroit was a great city, we have the auto industry booming and Detroit was the center of the world.
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Then because of the baby boom and auto's being everywhere, and roads being built everywhere the middle class no longer had to live in close proximity to everything and started to move further and further away from the city.

But a significant snag in Detroit (and Cleveland) vs cities like New York or Chicago, is that the tax codes in Detroit are set as an area. Other major cities had the power to expand their tax region beyond their borders. So people would move just outside the border and no longer have to pay into the system they were using. So the city coffers started to drop, and services started to feel the squeeze.

But at the same time apartment vacancies started to increase as people moved out. The people that owned the apartment buildings where being destroyed by the people all leaving and needed to find new people to live in their buildings. So to entice people to move in they turned to the south where there was a lot of racial tension and advertised to them to move up and work in the auto industry (which was very open to hiring black people).

So you start to replace a high wage (and high tax base) middle class white people that had been building wealth for a while, with a very poor (and virtually non existent tax base) class of black people that had zero wealth. So all the tax revenues where fleeing the city and being replaced with the issues of poverty (not black people, go to any poor neighborhood in the world and you will see drugs, theft, crime, ect, doesn't matter what the race of the people are).

Here is my leap.

You then have white people that are not as well off as the people that were moving out staying behind and seeing their city falling into ruins. The roads falling apart, trash building up, poor people everywhere, drug increase, crime increase, ect. And walking home they no longer see the friendly white faces that where there before, instead you see the desperate look of the poor pasted on black faces. It is only logical that the most visible change will be the one that gets the blame. So it gets put onto the black neighbor, instead of the economic reasons that the city borders should have been redrawn to include the royal oaks, st. claire shores, gross isle, birmingham, melvindale, talyor, garden city, ect. In order to continue to have a prosperous city.

Then the cycle of poverty that exploded into the Detroit riots would never have had to happen.



Ok, so that may be a small stretch, but you live here. If you think back to all the stories you heard growing up here does this train of thinking not fit? I don't know how many times I have heard from older people in my family say something along the lines of he is a good black guy, but most of them I don't like. It is because they got to know the person and it took the racial profile off of them, but the generalization was still there for every other black person. And I don't know about you but for every person in my family that has been mildly successful there are about 5 that are bums.

So if that is the case, that all the things that get put onto a racial issues instead should be put into a poverty issue, then we have a good starting off point.

We are continuing to sprawl across our country and our resources are really being pushed to the brink. For a town in the country who has a few hundred kids, those schools still take several million dollars to build and operate. And that is money that could have been consolidated with other schools in a city.

It may not be too realistic. But what I think would be best is to consolidate as a group our economic centers. Like if you live in the country and work in Ann Arbor you should drive your children to school in Ann Arbor instead of having to have a bus system get your child and bring them to a small school, all of which is very inefficient. But this will take schools and force them to adapt to our needs as a service economy (and no longer be designed around an agricultural society). They should be a almost 24 hour service, so that your children are in the school while you are at work.

I just thought of how nice it would be that when our kids are done with their school day they are done. They would not have to worry about homework or studying (there would be exceptions, but if they are in school the same amount of time we work, they would be able to get everything done) when they get home. And as a society we could ensure that a parent is home when they are.

Once we have a more educated and consolidated workforce, businesses would prosper, we would prosper, and our children would become better educated, and they would be able to better improve everything in the next generations.


The pressure should be put onto the education system to adapt to our needs. Having a 4 month gap in year is utterly nonsense in this day and age. One of the biggest benefits I think that would take place in the cities is that it would help to stop criminals from having entire summers to get their hooks into our kids due to being outside all day everyday because you have nothing at home and nothing you need to be worrying about.
 

PlantManBee

Well-Known Member
t thats the kind of shit that happens when you attack someone that is armed. Shouldnt bring rocks to a gunfight I guess :-)
bingo! our border is Fuct for residents on both sides. Ever hear of Terlingua? it used to be a great little place in the "Big Bend" of the Rio Grande, now it's pretty much dead on both sides because of the closing of 90% of the border crossings. this "wall" is ludicrous and will only help to make the cartels richer and the people on the border miserable.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I wouldnt want the wages they get under the table, im an american, i have bills, mouths to feed, habits to keep up, they work for less and send it back to mexico which turns into almost x3's they had here. $5 bucks might buy me a pack of smokes, while they get a carton in Mexico. Not so much they've taken the jobs, they've killed the business.....theres no money to made because the prices have been dropped to almost nothing.......because they can get 15+ to finish your roof in an hour, with shitty quality might i add. Ive been doing this work for years, the price was $60 per square of installation, it might be 30 tops now in some places. I Can't blame the economy for that, i blame cheap labor, and rich employers.


Dont get me wrong, im not being a dick about it, i have plenty of mexican friends, i just dont agree with coming to america to get yourself rich in 5 years because your countries currency is worth shit. While i bust my ass all the same for less. Maybe i should do what they do, save 10g's and go live like a king.
This is a big thing thing that needs to be fixed. If the powers that be would look at your example it says everything that needs to be said on this issue and has a easy solution.

If there was enough business to pay $60 before, and now the price is down to $30, the demand had to rise for those jobs (more people would want to get it done since the price is halved). So the people getting these jobs done (1000 square feet house would be $6,000 down to $3000 a job) have saved $3000 a job (assuming only 1000 square foot homes). We would be able to hook you up with full pay for a couple years while getting you into school and getting you the skills that no illegal immigrant would have, increasing your income due to the increase of demand of your new skills. And hopefully increasing you and your families standard of living. While decreasing the chances you would lose your job in the future.

But people jump to say this is socialism (not saying you are of course). But it is plain economics. If we are able to get a job done better and cheaper (not that they are better, but I am sure there are still high quality roofers that charge a premium) we all benefit much more than the costs to the people that are devastated by it. So we should and can help them to get trained into a new skill and we benefit even greater as a society because of those new skills being put to use. And the increase in your income would also mean that the taxes you pay in the future will pretty much pay for all of this itself.

In the long run not only can the person who lost their work benefit from this, but the poor laborer and the population as a whole also benefit.
 

medicineman

New Member
I wouldnt want the wages they get under the table, im an american, i have bills, mouths to feed, habits to keep up, they work for less and send it back to mexico which turns into almost x3's they had here. $5 bucks might buy me a pack of smokes, while they get a carton in Mexico. Not so much they've taken the jobs, they've killed the business.....theres no money to made because the prices have been dropped to almost nothing.......because they can get 15+ to finish your roof in an hour, with shitty quality might i add. Ive been doing this work for years, the price was $60 per square of installation, it might be 30 tops now in some places. I Can't blame the economy for that, i blame cheap labor, and rich employers.
Dont get me wrong, im not being a dick about it, i have plenty of mexican friends, i just dont agree with coming to america to get yourself rich in 5 years because your countries currency is worth shit. While i bust my ass all the same for less. Maybe i should do what they do, save 10g's and go live like a king.
Just an opinion, not a jab: If you smoke a pack a day, that's 150.00 a month. that would pay most of your electric bill in most states. If you smoke 2 packs a day, that's 300.00 bucks, that would be a car payment or a damn good portion of one. If you smoke 3 packs a day, you could be driving a new Camaro, chrysler 300C, Mustang, Dodge challenger or any of the less expensive German cars. How does a 300 mercedes sound, all for the cost of smoking, geeze for the one pack a day crowd, a new 65" Mitsubishi 3-D DLP TV could be had with no sweat. Kinda makes one think about their priorities, eh? I quit 15 years ago, Bought a new truck, the mitsu TV, built a hot rod, another new truck and put a few grand in the bank, saomething to think about, eh? 450.00 a month=5400.00 a year, for a stupid habit, 300.00 a month=3600.00 a year. Ten years+54,000.00 and 36,000.00 respectively, now that's not chump change anymore. Even 1 pack a day would be 18,000.00 in ten years. What could you buy for 18,000.00, a lot of reefer I suspect.
 

Johnny Retro

Well-Known Member
I wouldnt want the wages they get under the table, im an american, i have bills, mouths to feed, habits to keep up, they work for less and send it back to mexico which turns into almost x3's they had here. $5 bucks might buy me a pack of smokes, while they get a carton in Mexico. Not so much they've taken the jobs, they've killed the business.....theres no money to made because the prices have been dropped to almost nothing.......because they can get 15+ to finish your roof in an hour, with shitty quality might i add. Ive been doing this work for years, the price was $60 per square of installation, it might be 30 tops now in some places. I Can't blame the economy for that, i blame cheap labor, and rich employers.


Dont get me wrong, im not being a dick about it, i have plenty of mexican friends, i just dont agree with coming to america to get yourself rich in 5 years because your countries currency is worth shit. While i bust my ass all the same for less. Maybe i should do what they do, save 10g's and go live like a king.
Wow, this post is full of bull shit.

1. a pack of cigs in mexico cost around 45 pesos ( $4.50)
2. Their currency is worth shit.
3. 10g's will not make you live like a king, you can get by..at best

Their not here because their currency isnt worth shit, there here because they arnt ANY jobs. Mexico thrives off tourism, and thats about it. Everywhere thats not by the coast their is a lack of jobs. You think its hard living in the United States with this economy being down? Try living there where the economy is NEVER up. Youd prolly jump a few fences just so you can get a better job your self.
Unless you've ever been to these parts of Mexico you'd have NO idea what they go through on a day to day basis. Try traveling down there, you wont have the same attitude
 

Babs34

Well-Known Member
i went looking for a reason why they couldn't, and was surprised with a few of the things I learned.

one interesting thing i learned was that half a million or so americans are illegal immigrants in mexico, accounting for about 85% of mexico's illegal population (irony, anyone?).

another thing i learned that surprised me was that mexico's economy is #11 in the world...it made me think of how shitty it must be to live in so many other places and how lucky/complacent us americans are. that someone called on this thread themselves 'dirt poor' while using a computer and the world wide web...fucked up. the real eye-opening prediction was that by 2050, the top 5 economies will be china, india, the us, some other country, and mexico.

one thing i researched that jives with what i've been saying is that income equality is rampant in mexico, as well as huge gaps between rural and urban mexico. while nafta may have not decimated all of mexico, it certainly has devastated rural farmers by the millions. this is especially ironic when considering that the only thing that saved selectively-bred and genetically modified american crops from mass disease were mexican counterparts. if you enjoy eating corn or bananas, thank mexicans,
You really need to get off your high horse.

I am very aware of how blessed I am as opposed to conditions of living in many other countries. This line of thinking has been your entire defense as to why we should welcome illegals with open arms......not to mention, conveniently overlook the fact that I am to go from living fairly comfortable --as this nation used to know as such, to sacrificing putting meals on the table for my son who is going through puberty.

By the way and a for the record, a computer is very much a requirement.....my son has been doing research and power point presentations as a norm for homework for years now.
I suppose your comeback will be that I should sell this computer....just to put a few extra meals on the table in replacement.

The only thing you propose over and over with your little analogies is that we should all just accept the fact that we are and will continue, and at a more expedient rate become yet another third world country. AND, we should EMBRACE this fact.
....yes, extremely f'd up.
 

Murfy

Well-Known Member
Just an opinion, not a jab: If you smoke a pack a day, that's 150.00 a month. that would pay most of your electric bill in most states. If you smoke 2 packs a day, that's 300.00 bucks, that would be a car payment or a damn good portion of one. If you smoke 3 packs a day, you could be driving a new Camaro, chrysler 300C, Mustang, Dodge challenger or any of the less expensive German cars. How does a 300 mercedes sound, all for the cost of smoking, geeze for the one pack a day crowd, a new 65" Mitsubishi 3-D DLP TV could be had with no sweat. Kinda makes one think about their priorities, eh? I quit 15 years ago, Bought a new truck, the mitsu TV, built a hot rod, another new truck and put a few grand in the bank, saomething to think about, eh? 450.00 a month=5400.00 a year, for a stupid habit, 300.00 a month=3600.00 a year. Ten years+54,000.00 and 36,000.00 respectively, now that's not chump change anymore. Even 1 pack a day would be 18,000.00 in ten years. What could you buy for 18,000.00, a lot of reefer I suspect.
this is the same way i figure my ganj consumption
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
You really need to get off your high horse.

I am very aware of how blessed I am as opposed to conditions of living in many other countries. This line of thinking has been your entire defense as to why we should welcome illegals with open arms......not to mention, conveniently overlook the fact that I am to go from living fairly comfortable --as this nation used to know as such, to sacrificing putting meals on the table for my son who is going through puberty.

By the way and a for the record, a computer is very much a requirement.....my son has been doing research and power point presentations as a norm for homework for years now.
I suppose your comeback will be that I should sell this computer....just to put a few extra meals on the table in replacement.

The only thing you propose over and over with your little analogies is that we should all just accept the fact that we are and will continue, and at a more expedient rate become yet another third world country. AND, we should EMBRACE this fact.
....yes, extremely f'd up.
just a question, as you seem to imply that you earn way less than you used to thanks to illegal immigrants....how did that happen? how have illegal mexicans cost you the difference between a fairly comfortable living to a food poverty situation?

what you call my high horse was just me describing my thoughts on how well we live in this country compared to so many other places in the world. i mean, if mexico is in such horrible shape and is just barely out of the top 10, imagine how shitty life must get for #20, or #30, or #112 and so on. always good to keep perspective, it helps people realize what it would really take for us to become a third world country, it would take a hell of a lot more than illegal immigrants working low pay jobs
 

Babs34

Well-Known Member
just a question, as you seem to imply that you earn way less than you used to thanks to illegal immigrants....how did that happen? how have illegal mexicans cost you the difference between a fairly comfortable living to a food poverty situation?

what you call my high horse was just me describing my thoughts on how well we live in this country compared to so many other places in the world. i mean, if mexico is in such horrible shape and is just barely out of the top 10, imagine how shitty life must get for #20, or #30, or #112 and so on. always good to keep perspective, it helps people realize what it would really take for us to become a third world country, it would take a hell of a lot more than illegal immigrants working low pay jobs
You really keep yourself sheltered in every way, don't you?

Pitiful that I will play into this yet again, but here it goes.

My son's father USED to make over 30 an hour. As the Mexicans poured in this state over the last ten years, that rate turned to 15, then 12, and eventually 9 or 8 an hour.......up to NO JOB AT ALL. You know what that meant for me Mr. Buck? NO CHILD SUPPORT AT ALL.....FOR YEARS!!!! Even the possiblitly of working fast food or a local Walmart are but a thing of the past..........they are reserved for our new immigrants, but you naturally hadn't noticed that.:roll:

As with every other post, you will say this is the fault of whom???

When I stated that my identity had been stolen (just so happened to be an illegal mexican)----you said I should be angry at "what?"

When I stated that my sister had been killed (forgot to mention raped as well) by an illegal---you stated I should be angry at "whom?"

And now that my child goes without in all too many ways.......you know....LUXURIES, like shoes that FIT.....the list is endless----you will tell me what?

That I am not to even consider the source illegal immigrants.


You don't look at the scope of what is to come should we continue this path. If
America was to just conveniently provide amnesty for the multi millions already here, how do you suppose that will affect the MULTI millions MORE who ALSO wish to have THEIR entitlements?

And, tell me.........WHY SHOULDN'T THEY? WHAT MAKES THEM ANY LESS IMPORTANT?

This is a domino affect that America couldn't afford long before it even began.

Forget about what countries are relying on us going down for our politically correct stances.
 

Murfy

Well-Known Member
you would have to imagine that after about number 50 or so the economies would be very similar for the rest
 

xXF0RE20Xx

Active Member
You really keep yourself sheltered in every way, don't you?

Pitiful that I will play into this yet again, but here it goes.

My son's father USED to make over 30 an hour. As the Mexicans poured in this state over the last ten years, that rate turned to 15, then 12, and eventually 9 or 8 an hour.......up to NO JOB AT ALL. You know what that meant for me Mr. Buck? NO CHILD SUPPORT AT ALL.....FOR YEARS!!!! Even the possiblitly of working fast food or a local Walmart are but a thing of the past..........they are reserved for our new immigrants, but you naturally hadn't noticed that.:roll:

As with every other post, you will say this is the fault of whom???

When I stated that my identity had been stolen (just so happened to be an illegal mexican)----you said I should be angry at "what?"

And now that my child goes without in all too many ways.......you know....LUXURIES, like shoes that FIT.....the list is endless----you will tell me what?

That I am not even consider the source ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

Now, I've been nice thus far, but I'm in no mood for you to come back with another redundant and callous comment regarding how it's affected just me and mine alone, let alone millions of other Americans (that you don't even notice as having affected even the FIRST one)---I won't be shy in putting you in your place.

These "few" headaches alone are PURELY due to ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

And you don't look at the scope of what is to come should we continue this path. If
America was to just conveniently provide amnesty for the multi millions already here, how do you suppose that will affect the MULTI millions MORE who ALSO wish to have THEIR entitlements?

And, tell me.........WHY SHOULDN'T THEY? WHAT MAKES THEM ANY LESS IMPORTANT?

A lot of introspection on your part is called for before posting to me again. This is a domino affect that America couldn't afford long before it even began.

Forget about what countries are relying on us going down for our politically correct stances.
Couldn't have said it better. When YOU walk into your local mcdonalds....whose making YOUR burgers....i bet its not your neighbors kid timmy, its guadalupe from chihuahua.
 
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