Arizona Immigration Reform Laws.

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In Nv., during the boom days, mexican (Latino) laborers were paid 10.00 an hr. (Construction) those with skills, Carpenters, plumbers, electricians, concrete finishers, etc. were paid 12-15 bucks an hr. Many lived 4-10 to a house, paying 1000.00 a month in rent, or 100.00-250.00 apiece. Thery used the remainder of their 400.00-700.00 a week pay for beans and beer and sent the remainder to old Mexico for the Familia. Now trhat the bust has come, there are quite a few abandoned houses here in Vegas. They were at best, a fringe part of the economy with a huge monetary drain to old Mexico. The beneficiaries of that labor were of course the contractors. The price of housing did not go down with the onslaught of Latino labor, it continued to rise and the fat cats just got fatter.

Mexican_Day_Laborers.gif
 
medicineman said:
Now I understand, you're just ignorant of current events. Uhhhh, a few things have changed since 1998, you've missed them all. Geeze, even Shows like American Idol and dancing with the stars, How can you survive? (Sarcasm intended)
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Kindly present evidence of this alleged ignorance please. Specific examples, if you don't mind.

Bonus points if you can tell the class who developed the very first television network.
 
If true to form, Medicineman will ignore my reply or throw an e-tantrum because I dared to ask him to back up his bullshit assertion regarding my so-called 'ignorance.'

So I will answer my own bonus question.

The Nazis developed the very first television network in the 1930's. They realized televisions potential as a propaganda tool.

When watching television, one is conscious but there is no detectable brain activity. There is another state of consciousness where this occurs.

Can anyone tell me what that might be?

Anyone?

Anyone?

It's hypnosis.

They call it television programming for a reason.

Now hurry back to your butt-creased couch in front of your idiot-box for more brainwashing.
 
Johnnyorganic said:
If true to form, Medicineman will ignore my reply or throw an e-tantrum because I dared to ask him to back up his bullshit assertion regarding my so-called 'ignorance.'

So I will answer my own bonus question.

The Nazis developed the very first television network in the 1930's. They realized televisions potential as a propaganda tool.

When watching television, one is conscious but there is no detectable brain activity. There is another state of consciousness where this occurs.

Can anyone tell me what that might be?

Anyone?

Anyone?

It's hypnosis.

They call it television programming for a reason.

Now hurry back to your butt-creased couch in front of your idiot-box for more brainwashing.
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not true. brain activity CHANGES while watching TV. moving from active beta to low alpha waves. Similar to trance or hypnosis.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/247802/your_brain_waves_change_when_you_watch.html?cat=25
 
Johnnyorganic said:
So you are objecting to my wording of no 'detectable brain activity.'

Fair enough.

But you do not seem dispute my statement that watching television is akin to hypnosis.
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i am not willing to argue against things that are demonstrably true.
zero brain activity would result in death.
um... zero brain activity IS death.
 
tinyTURTLE said:
i am not willing to argue against things that are demonstrably true.
zero brain activity would result in death.
um... zero brain activity IS death.
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I never said 'zero brain activity.' I said 'no detectable brain activity.' But I thought we were past that.

I was attempting to clarify that you were disputing the wording of my claim rather than the broader point regarding television watching in relation to hypnosis.

I agreed with you when I said 'Fair enough.' But for some reason you can't move on.

So I am forced to ask you straight up.

Do you agree that brain activity while watching television is similar to brain activity while under hypnosis?

It's a yes or no question.
 
Johnnyorganic said:
I never said 'zero brain activity.' I said 'no detectable brain activity.' But I thought we were past that.

I was attempting to clarify that you were disputing the wording of my claim rather than the broader point regarding television watching in relation to hypnosis.

I agreed with you when I said 'Fair enough.' But for some reason you can't move on.

So I am forced to ask you straight up.

Do you agree that brain activity while watching television is similar to brain activity while under hypnosis?

It's a yes or no question.
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i agree that studies show that this is the case.
it's why subliminal advertising is illegal.
 
More pictures of our friends from down south:

illegal_aliens_fuck_you.jpg
illegalinvadersweb1wg.jpg

immigrationq-768063.jpg
aztlan2.jpg

Unidentified military unit caught crossing U.S. Border:
Unidentified_Soldiers_on_US_soil.jpg
Do We need more friends???​
 
There's one opinion I believe I have not seen as yet. A point that means quite a lot to many of us here.

Ask yourself a question: Why did the citizens of Arizona approve this?

Answer: Their state is in crisis and the Federal government has abdicated it's responsibility.

Follow-up question: What is the chief grievance of the citizens of Arizona which has driven them to this now?

Answer: The violence seeping across the border as a result of the de facto war in Northern Mexico.

Follow-up to the follow-up question: What is one fundamental reason for the violence?

Answer: The War on Drugs. Cannabis Prohibition, if you will.

The Federal Government bears responsibility for things coming to this point on two counts. It's failure to meet it's Constitutional obligations while at the same time violating the 10th Amendment of that same Constitution.

The next time you are discussing this issue with someone on the fence when it comes to re-legalization; give them a real good reason to end Prohibition.
 
I don't think anyone's saying that millions of mexicans coming here and draining our pockets is a good thing. One of the cartoons in medicinemans post was pretty accurate. They come for a better life at our expense. Americans of all nationalities pay taxes and a portion of those taxes goes towards welfare and public assistance which illegals readily take advantage of.

This raises a moral question though. Do we turn away the hungry and the sick? Isn't there an engraving on the statue of liberty that I'm too lazy to look up that says something about 'give me your poor huddled masses'?

I personally think we should take care of our own before we give aid to anybody else i.e. the rest of the world. The thing about this bill that bothers me though is the vague-ness of it. It's a slippery slope when police can go around saying "show me your papers" circa 1939 germany. What is probable cause for suspecting someone's an illegal? Where is the line between enforcing the law and harassing people? I know if I were walking down the street and a cop just started asking me questions I'd tell him to go fuck himself.

Illegal immigration is a huge burden on our economy but how can you stop it? You can't realistically build a huge wall and if you did they'd just climb it or dig underneath. There's thousands of miles of border. Do you put a border patrol agent every 5th of a mile and just have them sit there looking around?

I think the only way to stop illegals from coming here is to take away their incentives (no welfare to anyone without documentation. That includes healthcare, food stamps, education, and all the other things that go along with public assitance or are paid for by tax dollars) but that brings us back to the moral issue. A mexican shows up at the hospital close to death do you turn them away? They're still human beings after all, they're not "lesser than". I think if you own a business and your caught employing illegals then you should have to pay the taxes that would have been otherwise paid by legal employees. That or just start throwing them in jail...the employers that is. Also, some exceptions could be made for farmers who need seasonal help.

This whole issue is insanely complicated and isn't going to be fixed by some nonsense bill that A. isn't going to work and B. just makes people angry. Actually as I wrote that sentence I realized the point of this bill isn't to make a dent in Arizona's immigration problem it was strictly a political move just to get people talking about immigration which it's clearly done.
 
blazin256 said:
i dont see how this is bad. if they're legal what do they got to worry about. and racial profiling...who cares. if we got issues of illegal mexicans, then thats who you target. i LEGALLY have to carry documents saying that i have insurance and proper registration, so why the fuck not for immigrants. and that picture is kinda funny, seein as indians MIGRATED here over a land bridge. we bought and paid for the land we have, we make the rules, get over it.
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Yep as long as you have nothing to hide im sure you wouldn't mind monthly visits from the police to search you home and car either, I mean after all your not hiding anything and would never do anything illegal right?
 
Like you said tightpockt, Arizona is doing what they are doing because of the drain on the tax/social welfare system and the violence associated with the gang/drug smuggling activity. But the deeper purpose was to get people talking about illegal immigration and motivate the government to take action. Obama stated that within 100 days of being president he would take action on illegal immigration and he still has been dodging it. As far as the statue of liberty goes... that was built some time ago and we have an immigration system that is basically the fine print for that if you will. The truth is, there are quite a few laws that are in need of update. For example, the 14th amendment was intended for slaves declaring that if you are born here; you are a citizen... this is an incentive for people to come here just to have children. They are referred as "anchor babies" because it's really difficult to seperate families in the regards that the child has a right to be here and the parents are the gaurdians. I also agree with you that it will have to end with cutting the incentives one way or another. People are most likely to respond to incentives. I think that the way that Arizona set up their bill basically calls for profiling and the police will be under pressure to be checking documents because they can be sued over not doing it. I wasn't previously aware of this until i saw it being discussed on cspan earlier today. There is a lot of updating that needs to be done with social welfare and tax system as well as employers to reduce if not eliminate incentives for immigrants to come into the country illegaly.
 
ViRedd said:
"I no got no papers, no drivers licence, no insurance. I only came here so that my pregnant wife can have her baby for free and so that I can undercut American wages. We illegals have one thing in common ... and that is, we are screwing the American worker and taxpayer. Oh ... and sending billions of dollars back to our country in order to prop up the economy in OUR country. So, fuck you officer, I don't have to show you my papers. The Progressive Democrats have the system rigged in our favor."
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"Me so sorry I don't have same birth privileges as you."

If I were a legal Latino American in that state I'd dress up as your typical, day-laboring "wetback" to bait some fascist pig and sue their ass to the stone age.
 
Dragline said:
Im not saying there isn't an illegal immigration problem. Im saying going about it this way is stupid and hypocritical of all the "freedom loving" conservatives. For starters, you have just insured that anyone of hispanic decent even if legal had better carry documentation with them at all times or risk being arrested in Arizona. For anyones who bitched and moaned over losing your freedom with health insurance reform yet support this bill, you are the biggest fucking hypocrites walking. It basically legalized profiling. See there is such a thing as illegal immigrants that are not hispanic. But nobody is looking for the white eastern european guy who is here illegaly. Or the asian guy here illegaly. Nope this is free reign to detain based on a suspicion of being an undocumented immigrant. Not until now has an entire race of people needed to carry documentation with them at all times and be prepared to present it or risk being arrested.

Now i will tell you why it is stupid. For starters, it isn't going to do a damn thing for the illegal immigration problem. Arizona is simply too broke to hire a whole bunch of extra cops to enforce this law enough to put any recognizable dent in the illegal immigrant population. For every minute a cop spends on this is time not spent fighting other types of crime. This law will be way more headache than its worth.

If they really want to do something about undocumented workers, Arizona needs to target the employers. If you take away their economic incentive to be here many will leave on their own.
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Blasphemy! Less regulation of the free market! I thought this was America!

:roll:
 
Isn't that pretty much the policy on cubans?

If we don't catch you and you don't drown, you get to stay....?
 
I grew up in California. Just another wonderful place to live....

Then they passed a law that said the police could not ask people about immigration status. (late 60's)

Guess what happened ?

We have been over run by illegals and it has bankrupt our state.

The politicians are the only beneficiaries.

I wish they would reverse the law that started all of this mess, in California.
 
golddog said:
I grew up in California. Just another wonderful place to live....

Then they passed a law that said the police could not ask people about immigration status. (late 60's)

Guess what happened ?

We have been over run by illegals and it has bankrupt our state.

The politicians are the only beneficiaries.

I wish they would reverse the law that started all of this mess, in California.
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It sucks does it not...
 
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