When to clone? What to do..

highanddry

Active Member
When is the earliest I can take a clone to determine the sex of the main plant? What is the best way to determine the sex of a plant? Could I for instance plant 6 germinated seeds, wait until they are a few weeks old, change the lights to flower then check to see their sex and put them back into veg? I ask because I only have one box for both flower and veg and I do not want the chance of polination
 

mogie

Well-Known Member
Introduction:
Growers face the decision to start a grow from either seeds or rooted clones. The decision is not obvious, as both growing options have their respective advantages and disadvantages. Growers may have to weigh growing space, crop risk and turn around time.

Clones

Advantages:
>Clones are much faster to veg up and flower than starting from seed, resulting in a quick harvest and a much shorter turnaround time.

>Clones can be quickly grown into moms and re-cloned, for an instant vegetative and flowering crop

>Clones are genetically identical, but some differences will still be evident in the phenotype. In general, clones will exhibit even growth and growing characteristics.

>Rooted clones can be flowered immediately if space or time is a problem.

>Clones can quickly provide the grower with a strain’s characteristics (smell, vigor, branching pattern, sativa/indica dominance, rooting quality, etc).

Disadvantages:
>Clones can be difficult to find, as opposed to available seed banks. Clones from unknown sources are of suspect quality and genetics.

>Growers run a high risk of inheriting problems from the last grower: Root rot, spider mites, powdery mildew, etc. If these problems are not identified and treated, they can quickly spread to an entire crop.

>Unhealthy clones may die or remain in shock for an extended period

>Shipped clones may be in shock and take weeks of TLC to recover. There are many stories of medical clones shipped without any protection and arrived flat!

>Clones are more light-sensitive than seeds. Clones take time to become established, and are easily burned by excessive light (and nutrients)

>As clones are almost always female, breeding options are limited. Hermies are possible with unstable clone crosses.

Seeds:

Advantages

>Seeds obtained from reputable seed banks are of known lineage and genetics. You should have a reasonable idea of what the strain will do in terms of yield, quality and flowering time.

>Breeding and crossing options are possible with male seeds. (Feminized seeds produce a higher % of female seeds, but 100% female is never guaranteed).

>Hybrid vigor. Females grown from seed are often higher yielding than clones. Strains can lose their vigor over time; growers may want to 'rejuvinate' their grow with the same successful strain

>Your seeds should produce healthy plants, free of disease and pests.

Disadvantages:

>Cost. Seeds can be expensive, not only per seed pack, but in the time they take to produce a flowered crop.

>Problems with ripoffs, shipping/customs seizing seed bank deliveries, switched seeds.

>Unstable hybrid strains (See faqs on strain breeding )

>Not all seeds will be viable (germinate) and only 50% of the unfeminized seeds will be female (feminized seeds may produce up to 90% females). Only female seeds will produce female mothers, from which productive clones can be taken and flowered.

>It may take many seed packs to discover an excellent mother.

>Seeds take a long time (and there is more labor, money and time involved) before a harvest can occur.

The seeds need to be:
-germinated
-grown into mothers
-clones taken from each mother, labeled, then sexed to tell which mother is female or male
-the best mothers are selected (males may be optionally discarded).

-mothers are mass cloned
-clones are vegetatively grown and then flowered
 

Blazian

Active Member
i read that cloning from clones is not recomended as it is like making a copy of a copy. eventually the ink (potency) will fade over time, even though it is still the same document (genetics). keep a healthy mother plant which will be your original document to make copies from. if you don't have room for it, make some. your "tree of life" will outlive you if you treat her right.
 

potroast

Uses the Rollitup profile
I've never read about that, but I've have heard some guys mention it before. I've been cloning from clones for years, and all of my mothers are clones. I've kept a seed plant as a mother before, too, and haven't noticed any difference in the potency, or other effects, between the two.
 

Blazian

Active Member
I used to veg my plants and then take some clones before i would flower too, but after i read the thing about copying a copy, with the analogy of using a photocopied document, i decided to clone off of a single mother plant. has anyone else read or heard of this? potency of the plant getting weaker over time when cloning from clones? it sounded plausable to me because not all clones from the same plant grow at the same rate even though they may have the same genetics due to a number of factors, one being shock. so in this case, yes, the genetics are the same as the mother plant, so now the issue becomes health. surely, the clone in shock may not produce as much buds or be as potent as the healthy clone, even though they are of the same genetics. i don't know where i'm going with this, but i'm going to stop now. my mind went blank...damn that kief.
i'll try and find where i read this at. maybe someone could write mythbusters and have them do a controlled test. that would be pretty nice.
 

Blazian

Active Member
okay, i found it
i guess i was misunderstanding what i read, so i'll type it out. it's from:
Indoor Marijuana Horitculture - The Indoor Bible by Jorge Cervantes

"I interviewed several growers that made clones fo clones more than 20 times! That is, clones (C-1) were taken from the original female grown from seed. Thes clones were grown in the veg stage, and clones (C-2) were taken from the first clones (C-1). Bloming was induced in (C-1) two weeks later and (C-2) grown in the veg sage. Then, clones (C-3) were take from the second clones (C-2). This same growing technique is still going on wih clones of clones well past (C-20) and THERE HAS BEEN NO APPARENT BREAKDWON IN THE POTENCY OR THE VIGOR OF THE CLONES. THE IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER WHEN TAKING CLONES FROM A MOTHER IS TO NEVER LET THE MOTHER BLOOM AND THEN REVERT BACK TO VEGETATIVE GROWTH. CLONES TAKEN FOMA REJUVENATED FEMALE TEND TO BE LESS POTENT AND WEAKER." "Each time a mother is forced from veg growth into flowering and back to ve growth, her genetic integrity diminishes."
and then it goes into the photocopy analogy.
man, i'm glad i could clear that up for myself...lol.
good info though. i've been reading a lot of people cloning from plants well into the 3rd week of flowering.
if you can, get this book, its great. if not, there's another indoor grow bible for general gardening, but it's exactally the same book. weed book is done by jorge, and the garden book is done by george...hmmm. the garden one is probably easier to find, and was more in depth. i think it might be the same guy in a disguise. there's gotta be some type of copyright laws. those 2 books are identical.
 

mogie

Well-Known Member
Yes, but a cutting taken while the stock plant is flowering will need to be forced to revert back to a vegetative state under 24 hour light. This causes additional stress, slowing growth and development. Rooting may take up to three times longer when the cuttings are taken during the flowering cycle. The cutting may not have enough stored nutrients or carbohydrates to survive. If you must do this then take the cutting when the mother plant is only a week or two into flowering.
 

aldo32

Active Member
thanx mate i think i left abit late im about 3.5 to 4 weeeks in ill give it a go & see how it goes ill let u know cheers
 

loxegwen

Active Member
Hey, I was just reading the threads. Im in the same boat you were in, I am trying to clone a plant about 4 weeks into flowering.

Did you have success? Any techniques to reduce stress or up carbs?
 

shane

Active Member
u can clone from clones around 5-7 times would be the limit after u clone the clone 7 generations the plant will get weaker and strart growing not as thick and strong as the ones b4 it,and have less potencey,so u need to get new clones and thats not that hard to get if u no thr right people i just buy mine when i need them how long can u clone a mum until there is not much left
 

highanddry

Active Member
Holy hell, I wrote that thread about a year ago. I just got an e-mail saying "Shane" responded.. My project totally fell through, so I suppose I didn't get a chance to try it.. I forgot about these site lol.
 

stelthy

Well-Known Member


Just wondering... I have been having heat probs and only one of my seeds has sprouted, I have a Royale Haze Fem growing... She is about 11" tall... I was wondering can I take a clone from her yet? or is it too soon? good answers = +REP! - STELTHY :leaf:
 
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