global warming is killing people

[hanimmal]

aw fuck han. sorrty about that i was thinking i was in the other thread. let me regroup.

It may be the diesel but this is hilarious! Np man, it is all good! Fun debating with you all again, I may not be on much in the next couple months as classes ramp back up again but i will be back to find out what new things are going on. Anyway i'll hit the rest up tomorrow you all have a good night.

 

[hanimmal]

Shit, I just read your post CJ, and am convinced I need to quit smoking. I agree with you. If the battle for me was plastic vs carbon emissions I would pick the fight with plastic.


I do think that we should develope and use renewable energy on a massive scale (like all homes have solar panels to soak up the untapped potential of the sun) and get off having to burn everything like we have over the last 10,000 years (Guessing). As much for climate changing that may be happening (somewhere between the ideas of "Bullshit people cannot affect the world" to "OMG Al Gore please save me I live in the middle of flordia and am afraid of the ocean") as for a new dawn of society and the economic benefits of not having to constantly pay for electricity and gas to power our needs.

Anyway I need to log off, take it easy.

 

[CrackerJax]

Han ... see we can agree on some things.

I just can't stand BS ... especially when it means fleecing the ppl's hard earned money. Believe it or not, most ppl need every dime they make for their families. Every BS tax hit damages the country in every nook and cranny. It all adds up.

 

[supertiger]

If government really wanted to empower people they would be teaching them how to be self sustaining and off the grid.. If the world really wanted to solve world hunger, they would be teaching the art and science of aquaponics living around the globe. A 300 gallon tank could supply 130+ lbs of fish per year without ever running out. On top of the fresh fish being supplied, the fish waste acts as the perfect natural fertilizer to grow all your fruits and vegetables. Why does Africa continue to receive prepackaged goods like rice and various other non-nutritious foods? Because some asshole is making a profit rather then looking out for the people's best interests.

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day.
Teach a man to fish, feed him until the fish stock runs out.
Teach a man to GROW fish, now that's feeding for a lifetime!

The global warming crap is somewhat like that. I think the more politically correct term to use is "climate change" rather then global warming. This was changed so they wouldn't have to explain the lack of warming trend... The real truth is that co2 levels have risen and continue to rise. This is not because of your camaro or your private jet.. It's a very simple understanding if you understand nature. Man contributes less then 5% of all greenhouse gases. What has really happened is the boom in global population during and after the industrial revolution, along with the cutting of forests to make room for that growing population, has caused less natural resources to convert co2 to oxygen as well as more people exhaling co2.. It's really not very complicated. Less tree's and more people = rise in co2 and greenhouse gases. And it's not because of your gas engines..

You know that hockey stick graph al gore is always prancing around showing?

he loves to display this while telling you all your going to die because of it. And that it's all our faults for it's cause from our carbon emissions.. This couldn't be farther from the truth.

Does this look like your hockey stick graph Mr. Gore??? Coincidence?? I think not.

Carbon Emissions = Scam for billionaires

Co2 levels rising = not BS

Reasons = More people and livestock exhaling co2 and farting out methane along with less vegetation on earth to convert co2 to oxygen.

 

[CrackerJax]

The government ... todays modern govt. only wants to increase and stay in power.

Everything is lip service, from both sides of the aisle, to maintain that goal.

Right now, a stagnant govt. would be our best chance at real happiness.

=========================================================

CO2 has been much higher in the past then now. Way before the industrial revolution. The Middle ages had a warming climate and there was NO industry of any kind.

It's a scam.

 

[jeff f]

If government really wanted to empower people they would be teaching them how to be self sustaining and off the grid.. If the world really wanted to solve world hunger, they would be teaching the art and science of aquaponics living around the globe. A 300 gallon tank could supply 130+ lbs of fish per year without ever running out. On top of the fresh fish being supplied, the fish waste acts as the perfect natural fertilizer to grow all your fruits and vegetables. Why does Africa continue to receive prepackaged goods like rice and various other non-nutritious foods? Because some asshole is making a profit rather then looking out for the people's best interests.
.

thats a load of bull. these people can barely pull the rice bags off the truck before getting an ak 47 round to the back of the head. the reason we send them prepackaged stuff is because

1 they live in a desert and are really really poor because of corrupt politicians

2 the thugs would burn their crops down along with their straw huts

3 these people have to travel miles sometimes to get water. where do you think they may have an "extra" 300 gallons to grow fish. imagine having to carry all the water necessary to grow rice? rice is grown in swamps full of water. where would you propose they get that water? maybe a good raindance or 2?

but your post does illustrate perfectly the garbage that some "left wing lunatic" professor taught you or the person you are parroting.

BTW most of the food is donated by different humanitarian organizations or govt. profit, while realized at the production level (the farmer and packager), doesnt extend to the sales level. educate yourself.

 

[CrackerJax]

Lack of education ... a common malady.

 

[hanimmal]

Fun fact:

Donating food to 3rd world countries, hurts their economy and in the end stops their agricultural advancement.


With free food coming in people that wish to farm in order to sell their goods find that they cannot because they are available for free by people that are actually trying to help out. So what is their incentive to spend money on expanding their farms and producing food to sell? Nothing because they will never be able to make back the money.

If you really wanted to help end third world hunger instead of donating food or money to organizations that donate food, instead find a way to donate it to farmers of those areas that need the support to feed their own people. Or better yet figure out a way to get the money for food into the hands of the people that would by it from the farmers (i.e. food stamps)

Damn my liberal "Left wing lunatic" professor for teaching us that.

but your post does illustrate perfectly the garbage that some "left wing lunatic" professor taught you or the person you are parroting.

That is a perfect example of a "rediculous right wing nutball" taking someones feelings and attaching it to higher education to be able to feel superior to educated people, when it was most likely formulated after reading something that tries to be "news" or a book that is mascarading as a teaching tool and really just a idealogical novel (like pretty much everything that ever makes a best seller list).

CO2 has been much higher in the past then now. Way before the industrial revolution. The Middle ages had a warming climate and there was NO industry of any kind.

What was the gas levels back then? And what was the weather patterns/growing cycles like during this warm climate in the different places like here in America? That is what really matters. Now we need to figure out if people producing everything that we do today and for the last few hundred years can affect the levels of the different gases.

If we as a whole built up the same amount of these things that have changed the climate in the past over the last couple hundred years wouldn't it stand that we then could affect the climate in a similar measure? I just don't understand how you can say no there is 100% no way that human kind can affect the earth, it is astounding.

Nobody is saying natural causes can't cause these things (and on a much faster and larger scale), it is obvious and historically proven that they can and have. But to deny that we may cause similar phenomenon because of our massive scale of industry is just closing your eyes and saying 'nuh-uh'.

 

[mexiblunt]

Good info on donating, If you were to or do donate where do you suggest? I have a year to figure this out. After this years christmas drama I told all my family members that next year everyone is just getting a card that says their gift is being given to a charity not in gift form but a donation. I am going to donate the dollar value that I would normally spend on gifts, I also told them that I did not want any gifts either and if they still feel they need to they can pitch in.

 

[CrackerJax]

Africa has one major problem. It's soil for the most part is simply not that fertile. It all looks green, but there's alot more to it than that.

Now is it better to feed a ppl or provide them with their own farm equipment?

It's better to give them the equipment.

But he is correct in that when you give someone something for nothing ... it is valued less by the receiver, than if they had worked for it.

This is one of the big problems with entitlement programs. People get hooked on it like heroin.

It's always better to buy something urself than have someone give it to you. In the long run.

That's why the Great Society failed miserably, and is still failing. If there was one real achievement by Bill Clinton it was Welfare Reform. Obama wasted no time tearing that all to shreds, in less than a year. Back on the dole folks, get back on that heroin.

 

[hanimmal]

I was going to take some time to post about your saying the great society failing, but I have a ton of reading I am trying to get done atm.

But although some of the things that I would disagree with the G/ Society, I cannot deny that we no longer have people dying due to not being able to afford food, and that all children have access to education, neither of which they did before this. And also out of this you had Lyndon Johnson dropping the tax brackets by 20% which was a good thing.

So even though you may not like the current state of education, it had produced the baby boomers very high education rate, and elevated the standards of every body in the workforce now.

The school systems have declined over the years, but that is due I would argue more to the ability of people that would have been the most successful teachers to become doctors, and business leaders, which elevated the quality in the standard of living for all of us, while dropping the quality of the teachers we now have, than the fact that it is paid for by the government.

And as an industrialized nation, we cannot allow people to starve. We have again gone too far in the other direction and now are substancially over fed, but that is a different issue. Food stamps help to curb the problem of giving money to people that will waste it and not helping them to eat. And this has very little to do with any problems we have as a society.

Welfare systems while they do promote laziness, do help the people that actually need that helping hand. This also helps to create a floor to how much consumption can fall with those people having no buying power and the companies that would be able to serve them being unable to because of lack of monetary reward.

And if you would look at all the great minds that have been produced from the public educational system that would not have had the opportunity without it, you would see that we are by far better dealing with the slight drag of the poor than not having all the economic benefits from the people that have used the system well.

 

[hanimmal]

Good info on donating, If you were to or do donate where do you suggest? I have a year to figure this out. After this years christmas drama I told all my family members that next year everyone is just getting a card that says their gift is being given to a charity not in gift form but a donation. I am going to donate the dollar value that I would normally spend on gifts, I also told them that I did not want any gifts either and if they still feel they need to they can pitch in.

That is a great idea, but seriously I have no clue on who would be good to donate to accomplish what should be done. I would be worried if I did a search on google and did find something that looked good that it would be a scam.

Maybe look into this, but seriously I want to say I am not sure if it is legit or not.

http://www.selfhelpafrica.com/selfhelp/main/TECH-animaltraction.htm

 

[mexiblunt]

Thanks Han! Just thought you may know of some good ones. That one looks decent enough. I was thinking along those kinds of "help" I know of a group that brings these sand type water filters to places as well I could buy a bunch of those. Maybe I will split it with a bunch of different ones.

 

[jeff f]

Fun fact:

Donating food to 3rd world countries, hurts their economy and in the end stops their agricultural advancement.


With free food coming in people that wish to farm in order to sell their goods find that they cannot because they are available for free by people that are actually trying to help out. So what is their incentive to spend money on expanding their farms and producing food to sell? Nothing because they will never be able to make back the money.

If you really wanted to help end third world hunger instead of donating food or money to organizations that donate food, instead find a way to donate it to farmers of those areas that need the support to feed their own people. Or better yet figure out a way to get the money for food into the hands of the people that would by it from the farmers (i.e. food stamps)

Damn my liberal "Left wing lunatic" professor for teaching us that.



That is a perfect example of a "rediculous right wing nutball" taking someones feelings and attaching it to higher education to be able to feel superior to educated people, when it was most likely formulated after reading something that tries to be "news" or a book that is mascarading as a teaching tool and really just a idealogical novel (like pretty much everything that ever makes a best seller list).

What was the gas levels back then? And what was the weather patterns/growing cycles like during this warm climate in the different places like here in America? That is what really matters. Now we need to figure out if people producing everything that we do today and for the last few hundred years can affect the levels of the different gases.

If we as a whole built up the same amount of these things that have changed the climate in the past over the last couple hundred years wouldn't it stand that we then could affect the climate in a similar measure? I just don't understand how you can say no there is 100% no way that human kind can affect the earth, it is astounding.

Nobody is saying natural causes can't cause these things (and on a much faster and larger scale), it is obvious and historically proven that they can and have. But to deny that we may cause similar phenomenon because of our massive scale of industry is just closing your eyes and saying 'nuh-uh'.

thats fine and good and i agree with you for the most part.

problem is the warlords who are brutalizing the people and stealing everything from them in order to starve them. unless you are suggesting that all those people trying to keep the flies out of their mouths are just faking it. most of those people would be happy to farm their own land if they could.

their problem is corrupt govt brutalizing the people.

and are you suggesting we cut off food aid to africa? yes, tell obama that one, cant wait to see how thats accepted in your lib bubble.

 

[Woomeister]

personally I am sick of seeing Aid sent to Africa where it is used so badly...handouts dont help in the long run!

 

[mexiblunt]

My dads neighbor is from africa she had to watch her husband and son killed in front of her, after they killed the father they told them to keep there heads down(mother/daughters) the poor little girl was soo young and looked up and they killed her brother. The kids pretty much carried their pregnant(from rape) mom for 2-3 days to saftey wringing out the water from mud using their clothes, Crazy actually meeting someone that went thru the shit you see on T.V.
I somewhat agree with woo on the aid but If it wasn't for that aid there would be no long run for these people. She and her kids are the kindest,polite caring people I've met in our town, aside from the youngest who doesn't remember any of it and is living life in the free word, she has become a handfull for her mom, getting into drugs,skipping school etc.

 

[jeff f]

My dads neighbor is from africa she had to watch her husband and son killed in front of her, after they killed the father they told them to keep there heads down(mother/daughters) the poor little girl was soo young and looked up and they killed her brother. The kids pretty much carried their pregnant(from rape) mom for 2-3 days to saftey wringing out the water from mud using their clothes, Crazy actually meeting someone that went thru the shit you see on T.V.
I somewhat agree with woo on the aid but If it wasn't for that aid there would be no long run for these people. She and her kids are the kindest,polite caring people I've met in our town, aside from the youngest who doesn't remember any of it and is living life in the free word, she has become a handfull for her mom, getting into drugs,skipping school etc.

its a brutal world over there. so sad what man will do to man.

but hey, look on the bright side, its probably your fault cuz you drive an suv and like to heat your house....like han said

 

[Woomeister]

tough love Mexi...There are cases like you speak too often but how is sending them food going to help. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. They need to stop killing each other first!!!

 

[mexiblunt]

Teaching someone to fish would be the aid I'm thinking of not hand out food. I think we agree on that.

 

[hanimmal]

thats fine and good and i agree with you for the most part.

problem is the warlords who are brutalizing the people and stealing everything from them in order to starve them. unless you are suggesting that all those people trying to keep the flies out of their mouths are just faking it. most of those people would be happy to farm their own land if they could.

their problem is corrupt govt brutalizing the people.

and are you suggesting we cut off food aid to africa? yes, tell obama that one, cant wait to see how thats accepted in your lib bubble.

My lib bubble, you crack me up.

What did I say that leads you to live in a 'lib bubble' and what exactly is a lib bubble, I got to admit I just love when you go into your crazy little rants that are completely make belief.

And no I am not saying we cut off all aid to africa, they are fucked atm and cannot do much to fix their needs atm.

But there is plenty of places that can produce food, yes they will have to deal with robbers, warlords and every other horrible thing that goes on in their shitty economically backwards country, but they will have to get past that eventually.

Economics speaks for itself. When people are able to farm for themselves and start to actually make a living out of it, and others can start to develop their areas and trade increases it will lead to the people that hold them down no longer being able to dictate their lives. But without having the ability to farm for themselves it is not going to get there anytime soon.

You know how long it would take for them to save so that they can afford an ox to be able to help plow?

The problem is they are starting at zero, and don't have anything to build up their living standards to be able to farm their own food. You cannot just decide to be a farmer and have food on your table a day later. You need a lot of capital to start up. Tossing a seed in the dirt with no knowhow is not going to work (very reason why this website exists). They are essentially being herded to where the food is being dropped and unable to really get any forward progress.