MY True HP Aero Plug&Play Pods

[OregonMeds]

You do know the average forum viewer reading what you just wrote is just going to say WTF, or have their eyes roll back into their skulls till just the whites show. Good useful info to us few that can follow it though.

Yes we just need pictures of big trees.

 

[fatman7574]

Yes we just need pictures of big trees.

For some ignorance is bliss.

 

[tree farmer]

Hi TF
Either the nozzle output is greater than the spec or the spec is correct and the pulse is longer than 2 seconds or a combination of both.
It takes 3.65 seconds to deliver 8.6ml @ 8.51LPH, could the total mist pulse from start to finish be that long?
To get an accurate output figure you`d need to run a single nozzle for a known amount of time, like a full minute at max pressure. Probably best to leave that test until after harvest

Working with the new flowrate, running 2sec/10min cycles all day you`d deliver 1.3gal/day to each chamber. I`m sure its mist run-on, there`s no way your nozzles can be putting out 15.6LPH

After a bit more math, the total amount of water going through the system may be somewhere around 3.287 gals/day, hows that compare to reality?
Make that 3.361 gal/day, i geared the other figure to 9hr@10min,3hr@15min and 12hr@30mins timing split instead of 10hr,2hr,12hr.


In the interest of science.. i tested a couple of nozzles by firing them directly into a 10ml syringe using 75psi pressure and a 0.5sec pulse.
The purple netafim nozzle (flowrate tested @ 6.75LPH) delivered exactly 1ml into the syringe which is pretty close to the 0.93ml calculated figure.
As Travish has some grey netafims i tested one of those as well. The grey nozzle delivered 1.25ml into the syringe in 0.5 seconds, so i guess they deliver something like 8.6LPH @ 5 bar.

Here is the reallly interesting part, i did the same exact tests again but this time without an adv inline.
The purple nozzle delivered a shade under 3.75ml, the grey did exactly 4ml into the syringe. The adv makes a huge difference to the performance. The test setup used a 5.5" length of 1/2" bore tube between the solenoid and the nozzle. If it was longer the results would be a lot worse.

well i tryed another nozzel on a different pod and guess what it was almost exactly the same 8.7ml. now i pulled the cup away as soon as i heard the selonoid close but the run on probably still goes into the cup . at least some of it if its only 1-2 sec as its pretty hard to just yank the cup away from the nozzel because i have to manuveur the cup in thru the root maze to get it in position to capture the mist

As far as what im adding each day i havent been keeping exact measurments as i just look at the res and depending on how much time i have ill add some more. it seems to average out to about2-3 gallons aday that i add.

I guess without the adv's and the amount of tubing i have they are seeing more than i thought. its good to know the details as it will help me when i go to larger chambers for trees instead of shrubs.

im thinking im going to just put a 1/4 inch selonoid at each pod and keep the tubing pressurized to the pod. this way when the selonoid fires at the pod there would maybe only be 1-2 ft directly feeding the misters that would be unpressurized verse the 7 ft or so now to the back pods.

 

[tree farmer]

Yes we just need pictures of big trees.

who doesnt like pictures of big trees. right now im only dealing with shrubs. when i get things figured out and do get some trees i hope to give a look but right now this thread is more geared toward the design aspect of the system. i hope just the info can help those who are interested in trying HP aero as its not for everyone ,more of an experment than anything right now. nice to have ya stop by though.

 

[travish413]

Tree farmer
I have a couple of spare adv's that i am not using. If you want to try one out and see if you like them and would rather use them id be glad to send you one or two. If you have a po box i would send it to that. I dont think you want to be giving out your address and i understand but just pm me and I'll help any way i can

 

[Atomizer]

I think the hard part will be making the transition from the distribution pipe to the adv and then from adv to the threaded nozzle. I`m sure it could be done though.

 

[travish413]

Hey guys,
Just wanted to pass this little device I came accross. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x-wxLEfLEQ&feature=related You all might already be aware of them but i was not. Thought it might help with some diy water cooling or any cooling for that matter.

 

[fatman7574]

It is only about 25% as efficient as compression type refrigeration systems, although it does have some advantages. Just expensive to operate when any large amount of colling must be performed. Great for CPU cooling and other small applications.

 

[travish413]

It is only about 25% as efficient as compression type refrigeration systems, although it does have some advantages. Just expensive to operate when any large amount of colling must be performed. Great for CPU cooling and other small applications.

I figured you would know more about them. So, you dont think you could use one to cool a liquid lumens light?

 

[fatman7574]

It would require a very large one as a chaep a window air condition is rated at an energy efficiency of about 0.94 to 1.0 while a Peltier is rated at around 0.24 to 0.27 A 1 is 100% efficient. As in using 1 btu of outside energy to transfer 1 btu of thermal energy. A heat pump in pulling heat uin rather than transporting out can have efficiency ratings above 2.5 I Alaska where a heat pump is usedfor collo ing to ground water efficincies of over 2 are easy as the ground water temperature is only 34 degeees F. An air conditioner Peltier is usually using air to remove the heat from either water or air so calculations are typically based on ambient temps of 20 degeees C for the cold receiving air. The efficiency for both an airconditioner and Peltier would all incraese as the recieving air temp decreased. The video shows the temperture probe actually placed upon the warm side but not the cool side of the peltier. Without the large finned aluminum heat sinks and the two fans the Peltiers efeectiveness would have been very dismal in comparison to the video example. The actual Peltier is just a thin pad of two different metals fused together. It is really just a DC diode. The amount of heat it can moe is based on the amount of voltage applied to one isde and how well you can wick the heta away from the other side, hence the aluminum heat sinks and double fans. Again if you lived in a cold climate and you neeed to conduct heat to ground water or cold outside area the efficiency would greatly increase but for large amounts of heat transfer air conditioning is still more economical to install and more efficient to operate.

 

[Atomizer]

Aero is cheap to cool due to the small amount of water delivered.
If you have 4 (8.5LPH) nozzles running on a 1 sec/3min cycle, it`ll take about 4 hours for the nutes to pass through 20ft of 1/2" bore hose. Bury the 20ft of hose in the ground or coil it up in a small cooler filled with water and thats the nute temps taken care of You will need to insulate any exposed pipework after the cooler but thats no biggy.
I use the same idea with an aquarium heater to bring up the temp of cold mains water for use in the cloner.

 

[fatman7574]

Or just kill all pyth initaly with chlorine then maintain some residual chlorine in the water to control Pyth and other pathogens etc, insulate the water pipe and don't worry about the temp as the system is not dependant upon DO to deliver oxygen to the roots. Justas long as thw water s not so cold or so hot as to shock the roots all is well. Temp in the low 80's is according to commercial green house growers and horticulturalists preferable with mist type aero.

 

[Atomizer]

I don`t get a choice with the chlorine but i dont think its that high (Free Chlorine: 0.42mg/L, Total Chlorine: 0.650mg/L).
Its drain to waste and everything is sterilized by the chlorine with every mist pulse.

 

[fatman7574]

As long as your treatment plants source water is from a deep well and not a surface water source that residual level will be enough to keep Pyth out of your system once it is initially killed off. However, if your water came from a surface source before treatment it is likely to still contain Pyth cells. Surface water sources have Pyth that require up to 2 ppm of residual chlorine exposure for over 20 minutes for eradification. Water treatment plants just maintain over 0.5 ppm for over 20 minute to kill e-coli bacteria. That is not enough to eradificate the harder to kill Pyth. With water from surface sources chlorine bleach should be added at the rate of at least 16 drops per gallon. After 30 minutes exposure time just aerate the water over night before use. Chlorine at 0.2 to 0.5 ppm is about the average as a residual level for treated water. However that will dissipate quickly after being in an open container (reservoir).

 

[travish413]

Thanks for yalls info on the peltiers. I tore my tent down last night and decided to just build a room... I am in the process right now. The tent just was not very stealth and it took up most of the room I had it in anyway so I just said screw it and why not just build a room. Thats what I have going on right now. That and waitn for my mothers to get mature so i can try out my new setup.

 

[tree farmer]

Thanks for yalls info on the peltiers. I tore my tent down last night and decided to just build a room... I am in the process right now. The tent just was not very stealth and it took up most of the room I had it in anyway so I just said screw it and why not just build a room. Thats what I have going on right now. That and waitn for my mothers to get mature so i can try out my new setup.

dont give up on the stealth. rooms can be made very stealthy. just be creative with something to go across the door. its always good to have stealth that will pass a walk thru. you never know about exigent circumstances. will never save you from a serious examination from the man (cause of thier sniffer friends)but a good stealth room will save you from just about anything else if done properly.

 

[tree farmer]

Or just kill all pyth initaly with chlorine then maintain some residual chlorine in the water to control Pyth and other pathogens etc, insulate the water pipe and don't worry about the temp as the system is not dependant upon DO to deliver oxygen to the roots. Justas long as thw water s not so cold or so hot as to shock the roots all is well. Temp in the low 80's is according to commercial green house growers and horticulturalists preferable with mist type aero.

ive been tempted at times to up the nute temp but didnt want to take the chance of any root problems as im still trying to figure everything else out. i would love to max out the other parameters and then up the solution temp to see what difference it would make. i have also read that true aero can benifit from higher root zone temp as it will increase the plants uptake. another thing i hope to test one day. so many things. so little time.

 

[sherriberry]

im sure everyone here has seen the doubleD grow system...

its the buckets, with a drip system on top, over hydron or whatevr its called

and then a dwc bubbler at the bottom... and high flow rates for the dwc, but it only comes up a few inches from the bottom of the bucket, and the top majority of the bucket is drip..

anyway...

ive been reading about your root chamber temp issues, and im trying to create a aero system myself, but it will probably only be a 30psi setup... and then upgrade to a 90psi later down the road.

anyway... here way my idea

take a tub or anything with a flat bottom that is pretty big, and put 4 plants in the lid, one in each corner.

have 2 or 4 sprayers that shoot from the top middle of the tub, (that 4 mister thing shown earlier looks like it would work great)

but here is my question...

what would happen if the bottom of the tub had say an inch or 2 of water, and a bubble stone, and a high flow occuring (gotta check out doubled's buckets to see what i mean, but basically the drain hose is large, and about an inch or 2 up from the bottom of the bucket, and then the feed hose for the dwc is at the very bottom, and water is constantly circulating at high speeds all around, in all the buckets, and then gravity draining back to one main big res.

so i would have 2 or more pumps... one high pressure pump for the misters, and one high volume pump for the dwc circulated in the bottom of the tubs.

basically im looking to keep the temps down on the chambers, as well as have the dwc incase anything bad happens with my sprayers...

but then have the vast majority of the roots up in the air, so they would get fuzy from the sprayers...

and as far as having 4 plants per bucket... i know they would starve themselves for light in the middle, but on the outside, i think they would grow fine...

so i would have a bushier plant than a single plant, and instead have at least 4 colas or more... and then a person could just lasso the main stems together LOOSELY, and as the plants grew, they would sway away from eachother (almost like training, but created by the plants desire to go towards the light and away from the other 3 plants)

this might not be the most ideal setup, but its way better than what im running now with the stinkbud posts

 

[sherriberry]

doubleD link http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f131/doubleds-mpg-bucket-shopping-list-14920/http://bcseeds.com/ticket_view.php?tlid=0S7U6G8t6J7y5C

 

[tree farmer]

im sure everyone here has seen the doubleD grow system...

its the buckets, with a drip system on top, over hydron or whatevr its called

and then a dwc bubbler at the bottom... and high flow rates for the dwc, but it only comes up a few inches from the bottom of the bucket, and the top majority of the bucket is drip..

anyway...

ive been reading about your root chamber temp issues, and im trying to create a aero system myself, but it will probably only be a 30psi setup... and then upgrade to a 90psi later down the road.

anyway... here way my idea

take a tub or anything with a flat bottom that is pretty big, and put 4 plants in the lid, one in each corner.

have 2 or 4 sprayers that shoot from the top middle of the tub, (that 4 mister thing shown earlier looks like it would work great)

but here is my question...

what would happen if the bottom of the tub had say an inch or 2 of water, and a bubble stone, and a high flow occuring (gotta check out doubled's buckets to see what i mean, but basically the drain hose is large, and about an inch or 2 up from the bottom of the bucket, and then the feed hose for the dwc is at the very bottom, and water is constantly circulating at high speeds all around, in all the buckets, and then gravity draining back to one main big res.

so i would have 2 or more pumps... one high pressure pump for the misters, and one high volume pump for the dwc circulated in the bottom of the tubs.

basically im looking to keep the temps down on the chambers, as well as have the dwc incase anything bad happens with my sprayers...

but then have the vast majority of the roots up in the air, so they would get fuzy from the sprayers...

and as far as having 4 plants per bucket... i know they would starve themselves for light in the middle, but on the outside, i think they would grow fine...

so i would have a bushier plant than a single plant, and instead have at least 4 colas or more... and then a person could just lasso the main stems together LOOSELY, and as the plants grew, they would sway away from eachother (almost like training, but created by the plants desire to go towards the light and away from the other 3 plants)

this might not be the most ideal setup, but its way better than what im running now with the stinkbud posts

i always thought about doing something similar as to what you are describing. sprayers on top and fast recirculating DWC on the bottom. i thought this would be an alternative to lifting the roots off the floor with silk screen to keep them out of the runoff. i never did try it though but dont see any reason it wouldnt work as long as you keep the DWC solution moving.
Although im still testing this system i do think that with the proper misting cycles dialed in the DWC wouldnt be neccesary. I also dont think the airstone down in the bottom is crucial if you have a good flow going.

yea if you do have a pump failure the DWC will keep the plant alive but im thinking if you still dont catch it within a reasonable amount of time all the roots above the DWC part will suffer some pretty bad damage and probably would die back anyway decreasing the yield and probably putting the plant in danger of dying anyway.

I think the combo system could really shine but think it still has its limitations if a failure does occur.

Im familiar with doublds work as im a member there also.

Nothing wrong with LP aero did it myself for a long time. I just think HP can pass LP aero performance wise. it is a little more difficult as the info is hard to come by so its trial and error but it wont take long to get it dialed in.