How to Properly Debate on RIU's Politics Forum.

[ObamaSanta]

On a lighter note, let's all welcome doob back from her hiatus as Cloud City. It's more interesting hearing you regurgitate MoveOn.org's and Olbermann's talking points as your original moniker, as opposed to your "far right Conservative" claiming doppelganger. I'm sure NO ONE will be surprised that Cloud City's post count will subside now, especially since CC was such an avid poster for the last week or so. Maybe doob can treat us to a conversation between her two selves.

 

[fdd2blk]

On a lighter note, let's all welcome doob back from her hiatus as Cloud City. It's more interesting hearing you regurgitate MoveOn.org's and Olbermann's talking points as your original moniker, as opposed to your "far right Conservative" claiming doppelganger. I'm sure NO ONE will be surprised that Cloud City's post count will subside now, especially since CC was such an avid poster for the last week or so. Maybe doob can treat us to a conversation between her two selves.

i had a second account once. i used to go into chat and have talks with myself. it often helped.

 

[IAm5toned]

you never lose an argument that way

 

[doobnVA]

On a lighter note, let's all welcome doob back from her hiatus as Cloud City. It's more interesting hearing you regurgitate MoveOn.org's and Olbermann's talking points as your original moniker, as opposed to your "far right Conservative" claiming doppelganger. I'm sure NO ONE will be surprised that Cloud City's post count will subside now, especially since CC was such an avid poster for the last week or so. Maybe doob can treat us to a conversation between her two selves.

I won't be surprised if Cloud City's post count subsides now, either, especially considering who is actually the user on that account, and it isn't me.

Here's a hint to those who may not be in the know: It's ObamaSanta and his many other incarnations on this forum.

Funny how you seized upon my absence in order to retaliate for my previous assertion that it's YOU who is the troll-of-many-aliases around here.

 

[ObamaSanta]

Actually, it was your strangely timed absence that just so happened to occur during CC's flurry of postings. Postings that match your mannerisms and writing style perfectly, other than the whole "and I'm a Conservative" blather.

 

[doobnVA]

Actually, it was your strangely timed absence that just so happened to occur during CC's flurry of postings. Postings that match your mannerisms and writing style perfectly, other than the whole "and I'm a Conservative" blather.

I've read this Cloud City person's posts. The writing style is nothing like mine. It's funny that you think it is, until you consider that it was YOU who wrote those posts, and then it just becomes a sad attempt by you to boost your already enormous ego.

My "strangely timed absence" has nothing to do with these forums, and the timing wasn't strange at all (unless you think seeking medical attention when it's increasingly difficult to breathe "strangely timed"). The only thing that's strange is your unwillingness to admit that perhaps you were incorrect in your belief that Cloud City is an alias of mine (which it isn't, I have this username and that's it). Of course, an intelligent person would realize that your attempt to paint me as a troll with many aliases is simply an attempt to divert attention from your own aliases.

 

[ObamaSanta]

If I am wrong, and I doubt I am, I stand corrected. I would apologize except for your continual and incorrect assertion that I'm CJ. Again, if I'm wrong, you know exactly how CJ feels. I don't feel the same way as I am using an new username, permanently. But I'm not CJ and I don't think Rick is either.

 

[fdd2blk]

If I am wrong, and I doubt I am, I stand corrected. I would apologize except for your continual and incorrect assertion that I'm CJ. Again, if I'm wrong, you know exactly how CJ feels. I don't feel the same way as I am using an new username, permanently. But I'm not CJ and I don't think Rick is either.

i know who you are.

 

[doobnVA]

If I am wrong, and I doubt I am, I stand corrected. I would apologize except for your continual and incorrect assertion that I'm CJ. Again, if I'm wrong, you know exactly how CJ feels. I don't feel the same way as I am using an new username, permanently. But I'm not CJ and I don't think Rick is either.

You're someone's alias, that much is clear. Whose alias is a question that only the RIU admins could answer for certain. Is it merely coincidence that you and all your conservative cronies use the same capitalization patterns in your usernames, or is it some sort of secret handshake that lets you know who is in the club and who isn't? Is it also a coincidence that the members of said capitalization club all express nearly-identical opinions, or is that simply another requirement for membership?

 

[ObamaSanta]

i know who you are.

I should hope so, for pete's sake, I thought it was obvious from the first day I switched to this username. Although it has been fun watching doob accuse me of being CJ every time I post.

 

[ObamaSanta]

You're someone's alias, that much is clear. Whose alias is a question that only the RIU admins could answer for certain. Is it merely coincidence that you and all your conservative cronies use the same capitalization patterns in your usernames, or is it some sort of secret handshake that lets you know who is in the club and who isn't? Is it also a coincidence that the members of said capitalization club all express nearly-identical opinions, or is that simply another requirement for membership?

I think the capitalization pattern you're observing is due to the fact that about, hmm, 95% of the users on RIU that have more than one word in their name, capitalize the first letter of each word and rarely use spaces. Ya think that might account for the trend?

The flood of identical opinions you're seeing are probably explained by the fact that Conservatives now outnumber Liberals 40% to 21%. Moderates (coming in at 35%), who during the lunacy of this administration and it's RADICAL policies are more likely to identify with Conservative values, are probably posting in the same manner.

But hey, those are real numbers. I don't expect you to accept them.

 

[doobnVA]

I think the capitalization pattern you're observing is due to the fact that about, hmm, 95% of the users on RIU that have more than one word in their name, capitalize the first letter of each word and rarely use spaces. Ya think that might account for the trend?

The flood of identical opinions you're seeing are probably explained by the fact that Conservatives now outnumber Liberals 40% to 21%. Moderates (coming in at 35%), who during the lunacy of this administration and it's RADICAL policies are more likely to identify with Conservative values are probably posting in the same manner.

Those statistics don't paint the entire picture. "conservative" is a category that can be applied to republicans AND democrats (same with "liberal"). The republican party encompasses about 20% of the population, with over 40% describing themselves as democrats. That means conservative REPUBLICANS are a small minority (maybe 20% of 20%).

Being a "conservative" democrat just means being closer to center than a "liberal" democrat, while still falling on the left hand side of the political spectrum.

Being a "conservative" republican means something else entirely, and it isn't categorically accurate to lump them together under the same ideological umbrella.

 

[fdd2blk]

I should hope so, for pete's sake, I thought it was obvious from the first day I switched to this username. Although it has been fun watching doob accuse me of being CJ every time I post.

you should see it from this end, fucking hilarious.

 

[ObamaSanta]

Goddamn it's good to have you back doob. We were running short on crazy around here, we're all stocked up now.

I guess Gallup doesn't understand it's own poll. Maybe you should explain it to them.

So your argument would be that when people are asked if they would describe themselves as Liberal, Moderate or Conservative, they just don't understand their own beliefs as well as you do. Your contention is that a majority of the 77% that answered Moderate and Conservative are actually behind the RADICAL policies the administration and Congress are ramming through? Really?

This seems to contradict that (excerpt from Gallup). Please observe the highlighted area.

There is an important distinction in the respective ideological compositions of the Republican and Democratic Parties. While a solid majority of Republicans are on the same page -- 73% call themselves conservative -- Democrats are more of a mixture. The major division among Democrats is between self-defined moderates (40%) and liberals (38%). However, an additional 22% of Democrats consider themselves conservative, much higher than the 3% of Republicans identifying as liberal.

True to their nonpartisan tendencies, close to half of political independents -- 45% -- describe their political views as "moderate." Among the rest, the balance of views is tilted more heavily to the right than to the left: 34% are conservative, while 20% are liberal.

Gallup trends show a slight increase since 2008 in the percentages of all three party groups calling themselves "conservative," which accounts for the three percentage-point increase among the public at large.

 

[doobnVA]

Goddamn it's good to have you back doob. We were running short on crazy around here, we're all stocked up now.

I guess Gallup doesn't understand it's own poll. Maybe you should explain it to them.

So your argument would be that when people are asked if they would describe themselves as Liberal, Moderate or Conservative, they just don't understand their own beliefs as well as you do. Your contention is that a majority of the 77% that answered Moderate and Conservative are actually behind the RADICAL policies the administration and Congress are ramming through? Really?

This seems to contradict that (excerpt from Gallup). Please observe the highlighted area.

What you're trying to do is misrepresent what I said. I didn't say any of the things you're asserting that I said.

What I said was, you can be "conservative" and still be a DEMOCRAT. all it means is that you are closer to the center than liberals, but still on the left. "Moving to the right" doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. It doesn't mean people are jumping the democratic ship and climbing aboard the republican ship. You can be a democrat who is further towards the right than liberal democrats, and still remain on the LEFT. Hence, CONSERVATIVE democrats.

You said "So your argument would be that when people are asked if they would describe themselves as Liberal, Moderate or Conservative, they just don't understand their own beliefs as well as you do. Your contention is that a majority of the 77% that answered Moderate and Conservative are actually behind the RADICAL policies the administration and Congress are ramming through? Really?"

When did I say any of this? Did I make this argument? NO, I didn't. I never said people don't understand their own beliefs, I said being 'CONSERVATIVE isn't limited to republicans. There are democratic conservatives, as well.

THAT'S IT! That's all I said! How you can possibly read any further into it than that is beyond me. I'm not saying the poll is inaccurate, I'm just saying there's more to it than meets the eye. There are many people who don't realize there are liberal republicans and conservative democrats who might be led to believe that the results of this poll show that republicans have far more support than democrats, which simply isn't the case.

What "radical" legislation is being pushed through? If you're talking about the watered down health reform bills, those are far from what the "radical" liberals would pass if left to their own devices.

 

[ObamaSanta]

"Moving to the right" doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. It doesn't mean people are jumping the democratic ship and climbing aboard the republican ship.

Except that is exactly what is happening. VA, NJ and NY. Don't bother with Hoffman being an Independent, he's a Republican and would have been the nominee if there had been a primary. Not that I care, as long as he's a Conservative I don't care what party he runs under.

When did I say any of this? Did I make this argument? NO, I didn't. I never said people don't understand their own beliefs, I said being 'CONSERVATIVE isn't limited to republicans. There are democratic conservatives, as well.

Fair enough. I was incorporating my memory of many of your posts on the topic into my extrapolation.

What "radical" legislation is being pushed through? If you're talking about the watered down health reform bills, those are far from what the "radical" liberals would pass if left to their own devices.

I know you won't agree, but to a true conservative the following are extremely radical.

Stimulus
Cap n Trade
Health Care Reform in it's current form
Cash for Clunkers
Bail outs (yeah I know started under Bush but quadrupled since then)
and of course Anything to do with Climate Change ... Global agreements or domestic

 

[doobnVA]

I know you won't agree, but to a true conservative the following are extremely radical.

Stimulus
Cap n Trade
Health Care Reform in it's current form
Cash for Clunkers
Bail outs (yeah I know started under Bush but quadrupled since then)
and of course Anything to do with Climate Change ... Global agreements or domestic

People in VA are not jumping the democratic ship, not at all. Sure, we might be about to elect a republican governor, but that doesn't mean everyone who votes for him is republican. Logical, thinking people don't always vote along party lines. All this proves is that people in VA will vote for the most qualified candidate, regardless of their party affiliation. Many republicans in VA broke from their party and voted for Obama because they liked his policies. I don't particularly care for Bob McDonnell, but his democratic opponent hasn't run an effective campaign at all, which is why it appears that McDonnell will likely win the vote next week.

Also important to consider in the VA elections is the fact that some 25% of black voting-aged people are UNABLE to vote at all. Those are voters who are statistically more likely to vote for democrats, but aren't able to. Nearly half a million of ALL people in VA aren't able to vote out of a population of around 7 million. That's pretty significant, if you ask me.


And you're right, I don't agree that health reform in it's current presentation is radical at all. A single payer bill would be radical, the bills we have before Congress right now are not radical at all.

 

[Illegal Smile]

Half the people in the US have IQs under 100. How many of them do you think have the slightest clue what liberal or conservative means? The only think that preserves credibility for the polls is that the morons who just pull responses out of their ass divide up equally and cancel each other out.

 

[ObamaSanta]

Republicans broke from their party because they liked his policies? They like most had no idea what his policies were going to be. They were lured by his claims of being a moderate which went unchallenged by the MSM (to it's shame and destruction).

Is that because of felony convictions? Sad if ridiculous possession charges account for many of those. Va is tough as hell on those who indulge.

Since the Constitution doesn't give the government the power to MANDATE that it's citizens buy anything, I'd say from a Conservative standpoint, that's fairly radical. I can choose not to drive, but it's more difficult to choose not to exist.

 

[doobnVA]

Republicans broke from their party because they liked his policies? They like most had no idea what his policies were going to be. They were lured by his claims of being a moderate which went unchallenged by the MSM (to it's shame and destruction).

Is that because of felony convictions? Sad if ridiculous possession charges account for many of those. Va is tough as hell on those who indulge.

Since the Constitution doesn't give the government the power to MANDATE that it's citizens buy anything, I'd say from a Conservative standpoint, that's fairly radical. I can choose not to drive, but it's more difficult to choose not to exist.

Possession is rarely a felony in VA, and VA isn't tough on those who indulge, as you seem to think they are. I've been arrested twice for possession and got slaps on the wrist each time. No jail time, just a small fine.

Yes, republicans broke from their party because they liked Obama's policies. Unless you lived in a cave during the campaign, you'd be aware of what those policies were going to be - since every political candidate campaigns on promises of what their policies will be if they are elected.

If the government doesn't have constitutional power to mandate that its citizens buy anything, maybe you should be protesting the laws that require drivers to insure their vehicles, or laws that require gun owners to keep their firearms locked in a gun cabinet or safe.

Both of these laws are mandates for purchasing things.