Obama's address to congress.......

[CrackerJax]

VA is good health care but it is also very specific targeted health care. It's not a real side by side comparison of what the govt. could possibly throw up there for us. If we threw in VA vets families into the mix, the VA would stumble and fall into debt quickly.

It is good care..... but not cost effective care.

 

[Xeno420]

wow dude you are too far lost. you need to go back to school so you wont be so easily fooled by the uneducated lies of the right. if you would just remove the
"dumb fuck brain block" you have you would have heard a man telling nothing but truths.

where is the solution from your republican buddies? you have none. go lay on the couch and keep smokin yourself stupid.

Ummm, you don't have to be so rude. RIU.ORG is a friendly community, you don't like his ideas and opinions, that's fine but don't insult with such vulgar language please.

 

[Xeno420]

But I guess it's ok cause obamas gonna make me go to a doctor even if I don't wanna. sig hiel.

lol @ sig hiel.

 

[CrackerJax]

All the ones who think the right is uneducated are for plunging the country into massive debt while our credit lines are at their limit and govt. is growing in a disturbingly large and deficit minded way.

Thank goodness we aren't all as EDUCATED as the far left.....

They haven't a clue..............

 

[redivider]

jax doesn't understand that the current system will cost MORE than the proposed bill...

the purpose of the new plan is to flood the market, so prices will drop, and to try and ensure the "pre existing condition" loophole wont be as frequent, and to help prevent doctors from making bad diagnoses, and to help the whole malpractice lawsuit party we have going on... ... it aims to help fix everything that's wrong with the current system....

yet he will scream at the top of his lungs that the gov't wants to invade in your health care... it's blind, UNEDUCATED political rambling...

 

[doobnVA]

I'd love if the gov't would "invade" my health care, seeing as I don't have any and can't afford it. Even the employer-sponsored plan my boyfriend is on is too expensive for us to put the whole family on right now and any time in the forseeable future.

Funny how if I lived in a "less wealthy" nation with "less freedom" than the US, I'd get free health care no matter what.

 

[CrackerJax]

That's completely untrue.

You don't understand how markets work...certainly not insurance markets. The govt. plan will drive prices up, not down. Flood the market? Take over the market is more like it and why the ppl repeatedly tell Congress and Obama and every President for the last 100 years .... NO. What part of no don't you understand?
If you would like me to detail exactly the nightmare the publik health care bill would be, I will. Usually though whenever I pin down the FINANCIAL STUPIDITY, the LIB'S just skip the post...

Let me know.... I can enlighten you.... but you don't want to see the folly I suspect. You don't care about ur own future. You can't get past the soundbites.

 

[doobnVA]

That's completely untrue.

You don't understand how markets work...certainly not insurance markets. The govt. plan will drive prices up, not down. Flood the market? Take over the market is more like it and why the ppl repeatedly tell Congress and Obama and every President for the last 100 years .... NO. What part of no don't you understand?
If you would like me to detail exactly the nightmare the publik health care bill would be, I will. Usually though whenever I pin down the FINANCIAL STUPIDITY, the LIB'S just skip the post...

Let me know.... I can enlighten you.... but you don't want to see the folly I suspect. You don't care about ur own future. You can't get past the soundbites.

I don't think YOU understand how the insurance market works. The more people that are covered, the lower the costs should be for everyone.

Why are insurance and health care costs so high? Because we have a "free" market, and the insurance companies are simply out to make a profit. They are allowed to pick and choose who they cover, so obviously they aren't going to cover someone who is going to cost them money (also known as being sick). They'd rather cover healthy people who will keep paying into the system their entire life and never actually "use" any of the money they pay in. Most people who don't have insurance either can't afford it (because their employer doesn't provide it), don't qualify (because of pre-existing conditions), or feel like they don't need it (which actually just compounds the problem if they DO end up needing hospitalization, surgery, etc and aren't able to pay).

How does this impact the actual cost of health care? It has a tremendous impact. Why? Because people who are unable to pay for their health care drive up the costs for everyone else (including the insurance companies!). Inability to pay doesn't mean the bill just disappears, the hospitals and doctors simply pass the cost on to those who CAN pay, in the form of higher fees/bills.

You like to threaten people with numbers, CrackerJax, but the only numbers I've seen from you are either completely fabricated or exaggerated beyond mathematical comprehension.

I implore you, go read the actual text of the bill and then come back here and show me the "government takeover", "socialism", or anything that even slightly resembles the issues you're arguing against.

It's all in your head.

 

[CrackerJax]

No that is NOT how insurance markets work.... try again.

My numbers SEEM exaggerated to you because ur news sources hide them from you. You need to dig a bit deeper if you want the truth, as with all things in life.

 

[doobnVA]

No that is NOT how insurance markets work.... try again.

My numbers SEEM exaggerated to you because ur news sources hide them from you. You need to dig a bit deeper if you want the truth, as with all things in life.

Let's see... you take a bunch of numbers less than 70 and end up with an "average" of 70. It doesn't take a "news source" to figure out your math is WAY OFF on that one.

Tell me then, in your oh-so expert knowledge of all things (mathematics excluded, of course), how does the insurance market work?

Break it down so my warped, liberal mind can understand this great knowledge you possess. I'd really love to hear how you think it works, because it's obvious from your opinions on health care reform that you don't have a clue.

 

[CrackerJax]

Everyone is over 60%....excuse me.... it still doesn't validate high tax rates.....

High tax rates hurt the overall growth of the economy. One of the reasons why the EU performs poorly. One of the reasons why most ppl in Europe aren't in the stock market... they don't have any money left over after rent and bread. Car... maybe they have one.... probably not. 2 cars is almost unheard of.... 2 homes is almost unheard of. They have no money to invest with.....

How does the insurance market work? It's not just a bunch of ppl get together and make a policy base that's for sure. It's all about exactly who is in the pool, not how many.

 

[hanimmal]

Everyone is over 60%....excuse me.... it still doesn't validate high tax rates.....

High tax rates hurt the overall growth of the economy. One of the reasons why the EU performs poorly. One of the reasons why most ppl in Europe aren't in the stock market... they don't have any money left over after rent and bread. Car... maybe they have one.... probably not. 2 cars is almost unheard of.... 2 homes is almost unheard of. They have no money to invest with.....

How does the insurance market work? It's not just a bunch of ppl get together and make a policy base that's for sure. It's all about exactly who is in the pool, not how many.

I am sorry man, but you make the EU seem like a third world country. They are right with us in per capita income. They do quite well, and the reason they don't have 2 cars is mostly due to 1. Not needing them (public transportation rocks over there). And 2. Because gas prices are crazy.

And they invest a lot in markets, it is just that America still remains the best place to invest.


In a lot of ways I could actually make the argument that they are much freer and have a higher standard of living than we do here.



But back to insurance.

People need to realize that this should be looked at as a whole. How much do we spend as a nation (total) right now in healthcare, and how much if we stay put will we be paying for it in 10 years. This is not insurance costs you make, but the country as a whole.

If instead of loophole after loophole allowing the insurance companies to push off their burden and place it onto us (via the government) it is still costing us that money, it is now just a hidden cost.

Instead wouldn't it be better to track the costs of our healthcare by having everyone with insurance, and not be kicked off when they get too expensive causing bankruptcies that we pay for, and extra emergency room costs, that get put into the peoples premiums that have insurance or written off on the end of year paperwork as a loss that is placed on the tax payer?

The reason why this insurance plan being enforced is that if we all pool the money (even if in different private companies) to cover the care, then the costs are mitigated over the entire population.


And seriously people look again when you piss and moan about illegal immigrants being able to buy health insurance to pay for themselves.

I mean do you have issue with foreigners being able to put money into our stock market? How about when they buy our cars? Or food? I mean should we stop all exports that foreigners pay for, because we want to become an alienated nation? So why does it matter if these people pay into the insurance pool? Look at it as a service that they would be paying for. That money does not hurt you at all, and in fact ends up putting even more mitigation into the system. This would allow you to pay less, because if they get sick and use the emergency room, we pay.

 

[Green Cross]

I am sorry man, but you make the EU seem like a third world country. They are right with us in per capita income. They do quite well, and the reason they don't have 2 cars is mostly due to 1. Not needing them (public transportation rocks over there). And 2. Because gas prices are crazy.

And they invest a lot in markets, it is just that America still remains the best place to invest.


In a lot of ways I could actually make the argument that they are much freer and have a higher standard of living than we do here.



But back to insurance.

People need to realize that this should be looked at as a whole. How much do we spend as a nation (total) right now in healthcare, and how much if we stay put will we be paying for it in 10 years. This is not insurance costs you make, but the country as a whole.

If instead of loophole after loophole allowing the insurance companies to push off their burden and place it onto us (via the government) it is still costing us that money, it is now just a hidden cost.

Instead wouldn't it be better to track the costs of our healthcare by having everyone with insurance, and not be kicked off when they get too expensive causing bankruptcies that we pay for, and extra emergency room costs, that get put into the peoples premiums that have insurance or written off on the end of year paperwork as a loss that is placed on the tax payer?

The reason why this insurance plan being enforced is that if we all pool the money (even if in different private companies) to cover the care, then the costs are mitigated over the entire population.


And seriously people look again when you piss and moan about illegal immigrants being able to buy health insurance to pay for themselves.

I mean do you have issue with foreigners being able to put money into our stock market? How about when they buy our cars? Or food? I mean should we stop all exports that foreigners pay for, because we want to become an alienated nation? So why does it matter if these people pay into the insurance pool? Look at it as a service that they would be paying for. That money does not hurt you at all, and in fact ends up putting even more mitigation into the system. This would allow you to pay less, because if they get sick and use the emergency room, we pay.

You don't differentiate between foreigners here legally, and illegals? Cross the boarder into any other country illegally, and see how you're treated.

 

[Mindmelted]

obama should have had that idiot escorted out w/ the quickness!!! it blows me away that that type of thing could even happen: some attention mongering senator shouting at the president during a national address. that is embarrassing as an american. and although one could compare it to the hushed mumbling of the dems during one of bush's addresses, u would be a fool to do so! because although it was impolite for them to have been doing that, for a senator to stand and call his president a liar is imo a treasonous offense!

So it's treason to think the president is a liar...

Wow,How far this country has fallen.

 

[redivider]

That's completely untrue.

You don't understand how markets work...certainly not insurance markets. The govt. plan will drive prices up, not down. Flood the market? Take over the market is more like it and why the ppl repeatedly tell Congress and Obama and every President for the last 100 years .... NO. What part of no don't you understand?
If you would like me to detail exactly the nightmare the publik health care bill would be, I will. Usually though whenever I pin down the FINANCIAL STUPIDITY, the LIB'S just skip the post...

Let me know.... I can enlighten you.... but you don't want to see the folly I suspect. You don't care about ur own future. You can't get past the soundbites.

i hope you are not talking about me because i have taken extensive course work, and have performed numerous studies in the following fields:

Micro-economics - how supply-demand affects small scale business.

Macro-economics - how supply demand relationship affects governments, and international price fluctuations.

Financial Markets - how money is generated in the United States of america, and how the FED controls monetary supply, monetary flows accross international spectrums, and consequences of monetary policy in the US and abroad....

i have read over 1000 published dissertations on the above subjects....

i know what i speak of son... trust me... i am a nerd....

 

[doobnVA]

i hope you are not talking about me because i have taken extensive course work, and have performed numerous studies in the following fields:

Micro-economics - how supply-demand affects small scale business.

Macro-economics - how supply demand relationship affects governments, and international price fluctuations.

Financial Markets - how money is generated in the United States of america, and how the FED controls monetary supply, monetary flows accross international spectrums, and consequences of monetary policy in the US and abroad....

i have read over 1000 published dissertations on the above subjects....

i know what i speak of son... trust me... i am a nerd....

Pay him no mind, redivder. He'll tell you "that's not how it works", but is unable to explain WHY that's not how it works, or offer his interpretation of "how it works" other than "that's not it" or "you're wrong".

 

[hanimmal]

You don't differentiate between foreigners here legally, and illegals? Cross the boarder into any other country illegally, and see how you're treated.

I am looking at the financial benefit of having them pay for what they use.

You are mistaking that for a immigration issue.

I feel that our anti immigration stance is not effective to say the least. So in absence of that, why not set it up so that they are able to pay for the things that they use, instead of the current system that allows them to get it at our expense. You realize that they can currently buy health insurance through the private market too right? But like a few million American's they don't due to the difficulty and crazy cost of buying it as a individual.

Just don't allow them to use the government subsidies that are there for american citizens.



I can go into Canada and buy w/e I have the money for and that is for sale. If something happens and I am in their hospital, they take care of me, and their citizens pay for it. I am not saying we should do that, and either is anybody else that I have seen talk about reform.

We do the same here, but we say you now pay $20,000 please. And when they cannot, we have to accept that burden.

 

[doobnVA]

I can go into Canada and buy w/e I have the money for and that is for sale. If something happens and I am in their hospital, they take care of me, and their citizens pay for it. I am not saying we should do that, and either is anybody else that I have seen talk about reform.
.

Except that we do already do that, to an extent. If they can't pay, they simply don't - and the cost is passed on to everyone else. Under our current system, "illegals" are pretty much guaranteed free health care!

I agree, if they want to BUY insurance with their own money, what's the harm? They might want to stay? well, surprise, they're going to stay anyway. At least they're paying for it then, instead of walking out on the bill.

 

[Xeno420]

All that I have to say about Obamas health care plan is: "I loooooove pancakes"

 

[CrackerJax]

Everyone has access to health care in the Unites States.... period. Some don't pay either, it's given freely.... but it's not free for those doing the given.