The Never Ending Abuse of Phosphorous (Bloom foods) to Enhance Flowering

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
I wrote this years ago and thought I'd share it here.

The never ending abuse of Phosphorous to enhance flowering

A common mistake for growers when they reach the flowering stage is to start hitting the plants with a high P fert like a 10-50-10, continuing to use this blend exclusively, and when their plants start experiencing a deficit of N, Ca, Mg or micros as reflected by the dropping of lower leaves and chlorosis, they wonder why. Plants flower as a response to long nights, not because of fert blends high in P. A ratio of 10-60-10 is WAY too high in P. The plant will only take what it needs and compete for other elements that may be more important at the time.

You may have heard that too much N can inhibit flowering. No question about it, exclusive use of a plant food that is rich in N such as blood meal, a 5-1-1 blend, or ammonium nitrate/sulfate may inhibit flowering especially if the phosphorous level is low, but most balanced blends have sufficient amount of P to do the job. The question is - "how much P is enough to support a good flowering response and still retain my leaves?"

Manufacturers/horticulturists will give you element analysis and what effect the elements have on plant growth, but remember this does not necessarily mean you will get better yields. Using a high P fert exclusively during flowering can actually work against you due to impending leaf drop. It's an abundant amount of healthy leaves going into 12/12 and maintaining their health that produces a lot of bud, not high P ferts.

I rotate fert blends as the plant *requires* them, not because it is "the thing to do." For example, when your plants are going thru the stretch phase during early flowering, they may need more N, especially if you're getting some yellowing in the lower leaves. Give up the cannabis paradigms and give them what they need. Go back to mild high P fert when the stretch ends, maintaining the foliage in a healthy state of growth until harvest for maximum yields. A 1-3-2 blend such as Peter's Pro Blossom Booster, 10-30-20, is one of the best flowering blends on the market because of several factors - it is higher in nitrate N and Mg. It is sold under the Jack's Classic label. An added benefit of Peters blends is their use of high quality, very pure salts that will eliminate root burn if used judiciously.

Uncle Ben
 

sticky.n.green

Active Member
Thank you for such an interesting post for this noob at indoor growing.

I have recently switched over to flowering, and I'm having simular issues you described in you post...lower leves yellow, curling/darkening, and dying off (mostly the small ones at the bottom). The rest of the plant seems to be fine but the very tips are a bit white. I thought at first it was nute burn, but after a flush, and a ppm of 250...it is still happening.

After reading your post I shall use you advise. Thaks for the resource, and I hope my plants can use what you've suggested.

Thanks

S.n.G
 

gvega187

Well-Known Member
sounds like some interesting ideas. I love you guys who think all hydro manufacturers are out to get u.

What common nutrient blends would you suggest? Do you have journals to show the overwhelming success you have had using these revolutinary ratios?

who in the fuk uses 10-60-10?

thank you

I wrote this years ago and thought I'd share it here.

The never ending abuse of Phosphorous to enhance flowering

A common mistake for growers when they reach the flowering stage is to start hitting the plants with a high P fert like a 10-50-10, continuing to use this blend exclusively, and when their plants start experiencing a deficit of N, Ca, Mg or micros as reflected by the dropping of lower leaves and chlorosis, they wonder why. Plants flower as a response to long nights, not because of fert blends high in P. A ratio of 10-60-10 is WAY too high in P. The plant will only take what it needs and compete for other elements that may be more important at the time.

You may have heard that too much N can inhibit flowering. No question about it, exclusive use of a plant food that is rich in N such as blood meal, a 5-1-1 blend, or ammonium nitrate/sulfate may inhibit flowering especially if the phosphorous level is low, but most balanced blends have sufficient amount of P to do the job. The question is - "how much P is enough to support a good flowering response and still retain my leaves?"

Manufacturers/horticulturists will give you element analysis and what effect the elements have on plant growth, but remember this does not necessarily mean you will get better yields. Using a high P fert exclusively during flowering can actually work against you due to impending leaf drop. It's an abundant amount of healthy leaves going into 12/12 and maintaining their health that produces a lot of bud, not high P ferts.

I rotate fert blends as the plant *requires* them, not because it is "the thing to do." For example, when your plants are going thru the stretch phase during early flowering, they may need more N, especially if you're getting some yellowing in the lower leaves. Give up the cannabis paradigms and give them what they need. Go back to mild high P fert when the stretch ends, maintaining the foliage in a healthy state of growth until harvest for maximum yields. A 1-3-2 blend such as Peter's Pro Blossom Booster, 10-30-20, is one of the best flowering blends on the market because of several factors - it is higher in nitrate N and Mg. It is sold under the Jack's Classic label. An added benefit of Peters blends is their use of high quality, very pure salts that will eliminate root burn if used judiciously.

Uncle Ben
 

spiked1

Well-Known Member
Great post Uncle Ben.
I've been thinking along those lines and on my current grow I've kept up the nitrogen, in smaller doses than vegging, and after 6 weeks of 12/12 my buds are much bigger and denser than usual, and the leaf integrity has remained good, although not as green as before when vegging.:clap:
 

SlikWiLL13

Well-Known Member
sounds like some interesting ideas. I love you guys who think all hydro manufacturers are out to get u.

What common nutrient blends would you suggest? Do you have journals to show the overwhelming success you have had using these revolutinary ratios?

who in the fuk uses 10-60-10?

thank you
have you ever contributed anything positive to this site? all i see Uncle Ben doing is trying to help people grow better herb, all i see you do is whining and complaining.:finger:
 

taffo143

New Member
sounds like some interesting ideas. I love you guys who think all hydro manufacturers are out to get u.

What common nutrient blends would you suggest? Do you have journals to show the overwhelming success you have had using these revolutinary ratios?

who in the fuk uses 10-60-10?

thank you
PERSONALY I WOULDNT USE 10 60 10 BUT I DO KNOW MANY THAT HAVE USED SOMEWERE IN THAT REGION WITH MIND BLOWING RESULTS, ALSO SEEN PEOPLE USE 20 20 20 WITH GOOD RESULTS

ALSO 5 10 5 WITH GOOD RESULTS, SO I GUESS ITS PERSONAL PREF, YE?

I PERSONALY THINK U SHOULD USE AS MUCH AS THE PLANT LETS U, IF SHES TELLIN U UR ADDING TO MUCH THEN JUST CUT BK, GIVE A GOOD FLUSH FOR A WEEK AT THE END OF FLOWER AND BAM UR DONE, I MAY BE WRONG THO LOL IM NO EXPERT, peace bro's:joint:
 

taffo143

New Member
nice post uncleben, i agree 100% with ur theory, thats why so many people ask the question, ''WHY ARE MY PLANTS LEAVES TURNING YELLOW IN WK 2-3?'' i believe its coz they switch to bloom nutes and there is a serious lack of N when its needed the most, so cool post, sumin for people to think about, i also belive that a healthy consistent plant will give better yeilds rather than loads bloom nutes, GIVE EM WHAT THEY NEED!! +REP FOR U FELLA
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Great post Uncle Ben.
I've been thinking along those lines and on my current grow I've kept up the nitrogen, in smaller doses than vegging, and after 6 weeks of 12/12 my buds are much bigger and denser than usual, and the leaf integrity has remained good, although not as green as before when vegging.:clap:
Good on ya! That's how it's done. Have enough N available to support green (healthy) productive leaves. I tend to err on the high side of N during flowering because I understand it's leaves that produce flowers. Why anyone would sit there and watch their lower leaves prematurely drop is beyond me.

nice post uncleben, i agree 100% with ur theory, thats why so many people ask the question, ''WHY ARE MY PLANTS LEAVES TURNING YELLOW IN WK 2-3?'' i believe its coz they switch to bloom nutes and there is a serious lack of N when its needed the most, so cool post, sumin for people to think about, i also belive that a healthy consistent plant will give better yeilds rather than loads bloom nutes, GIVE EM WHAT THEY NEED!! +REP FOR U FELLA
Yep, that's what I'm talkin' about. ;) When it comes to bloom foods, ya gotta "think outside of the box". (sorry, couldn't resist the corn hehe)

Happy gardening,
UB
 

the357ink

Well-Known Member
imo, a healthy plant with vigor can take the vicious amounts of bloom boosters that you give them(as per feed schedule).Thats why the veg period is important. you wanna build strong roots, health, etc. to prepare it for the stressful attack of flowering.
 

Phelps

Well-Known Member
Glad this has worked for u, but as u say, get off of the Cannabis paradigms. Then u try to add one of ur own saying 1.3.2 is the best. What happenned to giving the plant what it needs?
My DP BB would curl up into a ball with that much nitrogen during flowering.
I believe u have some very good points, but my favorite was when u say to give a plant what it needs and not what people say it should need.
 

Stoney Jake

Well-Known Member
I have had a lot of early yellowing in flowering on certain plants... This is a very helpful post. I am one of the people doing exactly what uncle ben is talking about. Ill try keeping them on grow nutes through the stretch this time and see.
Thanks ben
 

SlikWiLL13

Well-Known Member
I have had a lot of early yellowing in flowering on certain plants... This is a very helpful post. I am one of the people doing exactly what uncle ben is talking about. Ill try keeping them on grow nutes through the stretch this time and see.
Thanks ben
try a slow transition from grow to bloom nutes. i start a week before i flip the lights @ 80/20 grow/bloom, then go to 50/50, then 20/80, and around week 4-5 of flowering im usually only using bloom nutes.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Glad this has worked for u, but as u say, get off of the Cannabis paradigms. Then u try to add one of ur own saying 1.3.2 is the best.
That's not a paradigm, that is a statement, understand the difference.

What happenned to giving the plant what it needs?
That's a good plant food and specifically I'm talking about Peters Classic 10-30-20 which has more nitrate N than ammonical N and quite a bit more Mg than most and good amount of Fe to help combat leaf chlorosis. Obviously if the plant starts to prematurely losing lower leaves, then that's not what it needs so you switch back to a higher N food.

My DP BB would curl up into a ball with that much nitrogen during flowering.
Quite the contrary. I've grown pot exclusively using high N foods. The leaves stay flat, cool, green and healthy....and that's what counts.

UB
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
try a slow transition from grow to bloom nutes. i start a week before i flip the lights @ 80/20 grow/bloom, then go to 50/50, then 20/80, and around week 4-5 of flowering im usually only using bloom nutes.
Since food mixes vary so widely, the terms "bloom" and "grow" are totally meaningless in this biz. What would those particular NPK ratios/values happen to be?

Just curious,
Ben
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
I have had a lot of early yellowing in flowering on certain plants... This is a very helpful post. I am one of the people doing exactly what uncle ben is talking about. Ill try keeping them on grow nutes through the stretch this time and see.
Thanks ben
You're welcome. It's a matter of reading your plants.
 

Stoney Jake

Well-Known Member
Im using a 12-6-6 for veg and a 5-10-5 for bloom. Ill try easing them into the high P next time. It makes sense and explains a lot of my early yellowing issues
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Im using a 12-6-6 for veg and a 5-10-5 for bloom.
Excellent. You can mix and match to get where you want to go. If I had only 2 foods to choose from, for any kind of plant material, cannabis or otherwise, I'd choose a (1) 9-3-6 and a 3-9-6 from someone like Dyna-Gro or a (2) 30-10-10 and 10-30-20 from someone like Peters, or values pretty close to those. Commercially I use different foods from many types of manufacturers and buy them by the 25 and 50 lb bags. Heck, Walmart makes a great food.
 
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