wind powered, rotating, dual HID lights, DIY

onenumcat

onenumcat

Well-Known Member
I had this posted in my journal and decided to share it with you all.

here's an idea I got...
I'll show you what I did for now and the prototype design...

pics:

1. now; taped pieces of stiff paper 'cards' to the lights. the fan is blowing across them.
2. prototype; I'll construct a small model of this one, then post a pic...soon. or, if you build it,
please post a good photo of it in this thread. (oh, I forgot, this system is run by wind power, a
fan is required, to add a fan to the schematic)

this principal will move the light to avoid 'hot spots', distribute light more evenly, and should be
great for different type spectrum or type; MH/HPS, lights...like I have.

the down side is any movement or vibration shortens the lifespan of lights...oh well, nothings perfect!

now, the light is moved several inches in any direction, constantly and gently. it almost creates the
illusion of shade, on the edges, caused by a tree, swaying in the wind, making the shade 'shift'.
the prototype and final design goals, are to do the same thing, plus, mix different spectrum/type
light much more evenly.

see the next post...


 

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onenumcat

onenumcat

Well-Known Member
ok, I got the wind powered, rotating, dual light, prototype built.

here's a pic...

it is powered by the oscillating fan. those are cfls on the prototype. it's only half a meter long and very light. I should have some UVB light delivered any day. maybe I'll put those in this one.
it revolves, continuously, at least, has been for the last 3 hours. I have watched it for a long time and seen it do 520 degree turns, 360's and 180's. it isn't completely random...at the mid-cycle, it needs to store energy again. so, it will do the 180's and 360's at the beginning and ending of the cycle. I've seen the cables twine at least 3 times...that's a lot of energy.
I noticed, it tends to 'wobble' a little, the ends(where the lights are), sometimes 'dip', bringing the lights closer to the plants. see below for solution...

I'm starting the upscaled model at this moment, just taking a break.

it will be for the HID lights. a Metal Halide, 400W and a HPS, 400W. it will resemble the prototype, except be bigger. one meter long. also, the prototype has twine from the ceiling to the center of the device, but the new model will have twine going from one point in the ceiling to two points, towards either end of the device, creating a 'triangle', for better stability. this will actually raise the lights, slightly, as the device 'winds up'. then lower, but never lower than the original height, slightly.
pics when it's done...probably today, later today...

these pics are the prototype, which works awesomely!
 
onenumcat

onenumcat

Well-Known Member
well, I finished the new model. it works...a little less than expected...no 520's or 360's...it's just too heavy. it's huge...sry, no pics tonight. I'm tired...and it's dark in there now. I will try a different, and hopefully, a stronger, fan. using a mid-sized, floor fan, atm. tomorrow, I'll install a wall mounted fan.
it is cycling, back and forth, at about 110-130 degrees. that's plenty of rotation to spread and mix a lot of light, over a much larger area than before.
now, I just need to refine it to get a longer revolution, my goal is more than 180 degrees.

the prototype was so light, it just spun and spun...this will be awesome with CFLS and/or UVB lights.

ok, here are some pics of my 'Aerolight'.
 
onenumcat

onenumcat

Well-Known Member
hey guys, I have a video of this to upload, but I had to turn the camera sideways(on a tripod), so now the video is sideways too!

question is how can I rotate the movie. software?

I want to upload it to youtube...


...figured it out. I used VirtuaDub. had that lying around not being used since I quit using peer to peer torrents!
which has been a long while! (only dl dvd's from premium usenet servers now)
I'm uploading the video to Youtube now...be done soon, then I'll post a link.
 
onenumcat

onenumcat

Well-Known Member
here are some useful links about light movers, in general, linear and circular.
so far, I haven't found any other 'wind powered' light movers.

what is a light mover - Marijuana Growing
Hydroponics: Indoor Horticulture - Google Book Search
Solar Revolution Circular Light Mover at Sunburst Hydroponics
What is a Suncircle? (Circular Light Mover) - 420 Magazine
Esoteric Hydroponics | Catalogue | Section 2: Horticultural Lights | Two Arm "SunCircle" Light Mover
Circular Light Movers

Still waiting for the video upload to complete. so slow!
I'll post the link for it here...see the video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgeVa3l6N_s
 
Fuzzotany

Fuzzotany

Well-Known Member
There's one out there that uses the oscillator to move the lights using metal tubing, was simpler than this and worked steady. May wanna look into it.
 
onenumcat

onenumcat

Well-Known Member
Fuzzotany said:
There's one out there that uses the oscillator to move the lights using metal tubing, was simpler than this and worked steady. May wanna look into it.
Click to expand...
ok, I just spent about 10 minutes googling that...can you help? couldn't find anything. anymore info on it would be great. it'd be nice to know if mine was the first...I thought it was, lol.
 
onenumcat

onenumcat

Well-Known Member
ok, I am fairly confident this project is completed...except for cosmetics. I know it ain't too beautiful, but it fulfills its function, beautifully, lol, and consistantly! It is making a full 180 degrees, everytime, all day long. also, my fan has 3 speeds, and each speed pushes the fixture a different distance and speed, of course.

I'm uploading another video at YouTube, for this version, v1.2, now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frozIqssmyQ


I have HID bulbs installed now, of course, any type of lights can be used. maybe even tubes, with some modifications.

the benefits of this 180 degree, auto-rotation, circular light mover, I call 'Aerolights', may be obvious to some experienced growers. I will list some of them for anyone who may want to know or ppl thinking, "that's kool...but, why the hell would you go through all that trouble just to hang two lights?".

1. this may be the most important, it certainly is number one, lol, pun intended.
HID lights, in particular, can be placed much, much closer to the plant canopy than a stationary light. HID's get very hot! this may not be a factor if cooler types of lights are used. these two 400w HID bulbs are half the distance, or less, of similar type, stationary, bulbs. what this means is, more lumens, or light rays, hit the canopy than stationary lights. this is because lumens diminish with distance. and, because of the motion, the added heat won't fry your plants to a frazzle!

2. I need a fan in the grow room anyway. everyone does, or should, have one too. because the Aerolights rotation is powered by air, from a device already present, a fan, no extra electricity is being used. economical and good for the environment! I could/can not think of another free way to operate this device.

3. different type of bulbs, with different powers, strengths can be utilized to 'mix' those strengths to benefit the plants growth.
if you like or would like to do this, but think shifting your plants around everyday, or having them in some type of rotation, moving each plant by hand, is or would be, a tedious chore, you're correct. this device accomplished that feat without a human hand being involved. since the lights and the fan are on the same timer, when the lights are turned on, the fan comes on, blowing on this device, causing the start of a chain reaction; auto-rotation! the details of this will be covered in a later post...

The only down side, I can think of, is any movement or vibration can lessen the life of your bulbs. but for better quality plants and faster growth, buying bulbs a little more frequently would be well worth it. and a shorter bulb life is not a guarantee, just a possibility.

I have four HID bulbs, now. three 400w, one HPS and two MH, and one 360w HPS. each one has different lumen strengths, color temps, and visual spectrums. if I install them into the Aerolights fixture, in the proper order, at the proper time, I can more accurately simulate the intensity and spectrum of the sun during the plants growth cycle.
for example; both MH are nearly the same. visual spectrum is Ra:90 for both. well over 40% between 380-500nm and up to, or over, 80% in some areas of that spectrum, that means 'super blue'. 6500k color temperature. the total luminous flux is different though, 32000 for one and 26500 for the other.
the two HPS are very different though.
400w, 23000 luminous flux, 2500k, Ra:85, well over 40% at 600-750mn and from 100% to 60% between 600-675mn, which means 'super red'.
360w, 47500 luminous flux, 2100k, Ra:25. this bulb focuses on lumens, lol. color spectrum targeted is 560nm to 620nm.

now that you have that info you can, possibly, see, if I mix correctly, the sun can be more precisly imitated.

I will install the bulbs in stages:

stage one, throughout the vegitative period: both MH bulbs.

stage two, just before flowering, maybe a week or two, until, about half way through flowering, estimated, or in my case, with 6 different strains at once, averaged: the stronger MH and the stronger HPS,

stage three, flowering half way point, until harvest: both HPS

both my ballasts are conversions, otherwise you'd just need more ballasts to match whatever bulbs you use.
any configuration of lights can be used. I plan to add up to four 26w, 10% UVB 'repti glo' bulbs to the Aerolights fixture during the latter half of flowering to increase THC content...just got those bulbs yesterday, hooray.

be sure to see it in action, watch the video(s)!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frozIqssmyQ
 
onenumcat

onenumcat

Well-Known Member
Newton's Third Law of Motion

A force is a push or a pull upon an object which results from its interaction with another object. Forces result from interactions! Some forces result from contact interactions (normal, frictional, tensional, and applied forces are examples of contact forces) and other forces are the result of action-at-a-distance interactions (gravitational, electrical, and magnetic forces). According to Newton, whenever objects A and B interact with each other, they exert forces upon each other. When you sit in your chair, your body exerts a downward force on the chair and the chair exerts an upward force on your body. There are two forces resulting from this interaction - a force on the chair and a force on your body. These two forces are called action and reaction forces and are the subject of Newton's third law of motion.

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." Issac Newton

The statement means that in every interaction, there is a pair of forces acting on the two interacting objects. The size of the forces on the first object equals the size of the force on the second object. The direction of the force on the first object is opposite to the direction of the force on the second object. Forces always come in pairs - equal and opposite action-reaction force pairs.

Consider the flying motion of birds. A bird flies by use of its wings. The wings of a bird push air downwards. Since forces result from mutual interactions, the air must also be pushing the bird upwards. The size of the force on the air equals the size of the force on the bird; the direction of the force on the air (downwards) is opposite the direction of the force on the bird (upwards). For every action, there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction. Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for birds to fly.

we can apply this principal in our grow room. although, I'd say, generally, we avoid these types of forces near our plants. in this case it is helping us. and it's using an untapped and wasted resource; the wind. it is produced by all of our fans and almost nobody uses it.

so, the fan pushes air against the vane of the Aerolights, it rotates on a center axis, the point where the suspension twine comes together at the ceiling.this twine, which twists, builds up potential energy in the form of tension. when this energy is released, the Aerolights rotate back towards the fan...which pushes air against the vane, again. this perpetuates a never ending cycle of push...and push back! remember the 'equal' and 'opposite' parts stated by sir newton. it's important to us because, if the fan has the strength to 'push' the Aerolights main vane, lol, haha, I said 'main vane', in a 180 degree arc, then the twisted twine should have precisely that much energy to release in its 'push back'. sweet.. a, practically free, circular light mover

the turning fan is a form of frictional energy. as long as electricity is provided to its motor, this frictional energy will be produced.
the twisted twine is a form of tensional energy. as long as the fan turns the Aerolight, in either direction, this form of energy will be produced.

now, there is one little secret to getting this interaction to be non-stop, so long as electricity is being delivered to the fan, which is the catylist for this 'engine', but I'm not going to divulge it at this time. I'll give some members a chance to try and spot it.

The next post will be, 'the making of...Aerolights!' with a break down of all materials I used in construction, estimated cost of materials-not including the cost of the lighting itself, ie; bulb, ballast, reflector. and a look at the finer construction points.

stay tuned...:bigjoint:
 
onenumcat

onenumcat

Well-Known Member
be sure to watch the new videos on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/user/onenumcat
the Aerolights has been rebuilt, for added durability and less weight. It's been revised also.
I cut some fat, pieces that weren't needed, and changed some of the material. also, there
are some expanded design features and, during the rebuild, I discovered several possibilities for
improvement. so, look for version 1.3 soon. some features will include fully adjustable
light position. it's in 5cm increments now. a counterweight pack, for aesthetic reasons only.
also, expect a trippier looking vane. the new vane will be lighter and more aesthetically
pleasing! and a new paint job, too, lol.
 

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fartexpress

Active Member
awesome idea! sure is a lot cheaper than buying a light mover.

i think this idea would be a huge improvement over your current design as it would be much more stable. im not bashing your idea, but constructive critism is always good with projects like this ;)

use the current board the lights are mounted on but attach some aircraft cable that will run from the ceiling and another from the bottom to the floor. make sure to attach the cable to the board with a big "V" to make it more stable and attach a swivel to this. have this cable attached to a hand winch on the ceiling and floor to allow you to put adequate pressure on the cables and to allow for adjustment as plants grow. be sure the winches are mounted very well. this would be much more stable eliminating the lights swaying up and down. be sure to use swivels on the cable to prevent twisting. the farther the mounting points of the cable are form the middle, the more stable the rig will be.

then goto home depot or lowes and you can buy a little box that you will wire your lights to. this thing will allow the contraption to spin an infinite amount of times without twisting the wires. i forget what they are called.

mount 2 small fans on each end of the light board so they work together to spin the lights.

with the winches, 360 degree wiring box, fans, swivels and cable youd be looking at $50 or so.

 
onenumcat

onenumcat

Well-Known Member
fartexpress said:
awesome idea! sure is a lot cheaper than buying a light mover.

i think this idea would be a huge improvement over your current design as it would be much more stable. im not bashing your idea, but constructive critism is always good with projects like this ;)

use the current board the lights are mounted on but attach some aircraft cable that will run from the ceiling and another from the bottom to the floor. make sure to attach the cable to the board with a big "V" to make it more stable and attach a swivel to this. have this cable attached to a hand winch on the ceiling and floor to allow you to put adequate pressure on the cables and to allow for adjustment as plants grow. be sure the winches are mounted very well. this would be much more stable eliminating the lights swaying up and down. be sure to use swivels on the cable to prevent twisting. the farther the mounting points of the cable are form the middle, the more stable the rig will be.

then goto home depot or lowes and you can buy a little box that you will wire your lights to. this thing will allow the contraption to spin an infinite amount of times without twisting the wires. i forget what they are called.

mount 2 small fans on each end of the light board so they work together to spin the lights.

with the winches, 360 degree wiring box, fans, swivels and cable youd be looking at $50 or so.
Click to expand...
sweet! that's good thinking. a major problem for me is there is no HD or lowes here, and if there were all labels would be Japanese, which I can't read well, when at all, lol.
I do know about those swiveling circuit boxes, so wires don't twist, but wouldn't know where to begin to search for one, here.
it's all a great idea, thanks for being helpful. the diagram was nice too, lol.
what I'd really like to see, is for to you make you're version, then we can compare notes. I'm sure we could learn stuff from the other, and build cheap light movers.

thanks again for your input. I appreciate it!

have you seen some/any of the videos?
 
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fartexpress

Active Member
yep i saw that one...

with having 1 or 2 fans mounted directly on the light board with a dimmer switch, you'd be able to fine tune the speed that the lights spin ;)
 
onenumcat

onenumcat

Well-Known Member
that's a good idea. it would be more like an airplane then. I think the light board would have to
be very level or it would begin to achieve lift...or would begin dipping.

I wonder if computer fans would be strong enough to propel a small version, with cfls.
because, I'm sure I have a few pc fans lying around and still have the small, prototype
of my larger version. I'd only need to take off the vanes and install the fans...

however, there is a flaw in that idea...if you use any type of cable, cord, wire, etc., to
suspend such a device, they would twist up, until the tension was so great, they'd snap...
or, they'd start spinning the device in the opposite direction...until it lost some energy...
then the fans would start winning again....
that would go back and forth for a while...because for every action there is an equal, opposite, reaction...
until, eventually, they would come to a 'Mexican stand-off'. both forces fighting, but neither winning.
they'd find middle ground, so to say, and come to a stand still, although they'd both still be exerting energy.

it would have to be mounted on a bearing...
and the electric wire problem, we discussed before, would still be a problem...with continuous, full rotation, in one
direction only...

if the fans turned on, then off, then on...and so on...then the suspension cable, would have a chance to unwind...
and when the fans came on again, they would wind the cable up...however, it may be random rotation, spreading
light unevenly. also, some type of timer would be needed....not sure if the growlight timer would work...they usually
do 15min intervals.

we have to keep in mind...action, reaction.
it is a good idea...and you're the only other one to put in their 2 cents, but
there seem to be too many hurdles and some amount of cost...
so far, my system has been free...

keep the good ideas coming!
 
Hairy Bob

Hairy Bob

Well-Known Member
It's great to see some genuine innovation on here, it really is inspiring, I wish you all the best with your future endeavours!
 
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