farmerfischer
Well-Known Member
Maybe this is recomended to supplement the cal/mag missing from the ro water and not the recomendation for supplementing cal/mag for the plants?.. whats the amount of cal/mag suggested for tap water with this brand?
What is wrong with my BIOBIZZ CALMAG? Very low ppm/ec at max dose, but my EC meter is working correctly..
- Thread starter kreikrei
- Start date
Phytoplankton
Well-Known Member
300 PPM is not that high, plus, unless you've read the water quality report (available from your water supplier, usually on-line.), you don't know what the 300 PPM's are. Could be Calcium or any of a number of other elements/ions. My water is anywhere from 700- 1450 PPM's out of the tap, I use it, and grow just fine in soil. My water has Ca., B, Mg, Mn, S, Fe, and Cu, and a touch of Se.
kreikrei
Active Member
Hi.
Their dosage is 0.3ml/L and max is 1.4mlL. (0.3 for prevention, 1.4 for heavy deficiency.) They dont have different tables for tap water.
Even if I use max dose , which is 1.4ml/L on 1 litreof ROwater, I get only 30total ppm.
Most forums say , that if you use RO, you should have a "base" ppm from calmag of 100-150. To gt to that, I would have to use 6-8 ml//L...
Anyway,calmag i only 5 bucks. I am familiar with the growshop manager, so Ill just take my ec meter to the shop with me and test their calmag concentration
kreikrei
Active Member
I am usually at 350ppm
. I will probably order a water report, my city has the worst public report ever and it is very old.
A buddy of mine is living in the same area and says the water is very bad (he is a decent grower, skeptical etc),and once he changed tgo RO + calmag,his grows improved. He usually grows 1-4 strains of photos he has found out to be the best (clones) so I am assuming he can really se a difference, if the genetics are the same.
Nutty sKunK
Well-Known Member
It does say use up to 1.8ml per L.
Their feed has cal/Mag already present. So you don’t need 150ppm of calmag.
Also many calmag brands have iron and other elements. And are usually calcium nitrate which produces more ppms than calcium oxide.
You’re over complicating it
kreikrei
Active Member
I definitely am overthinking it.It does say use up to 1.8ml per L.
Their feed has cal/Mag already present. So you don’t need 150ppm of calmag.
Also many calmag brands have iron and other elements. And are usually calcium nitrate which produces more ppms than calcium oxide.
You’re over complicating it
But this is my 3rd grow and first 2 were bad.
For allgrows environment has been very good (temp, humidity, DLI)
1st - day 20 - yellow, crunchy leaves, kind of survived, but end product was pretty weak smoke.
2nd grow - same problems from day 20, flushed but then cut it down on day 35.. almost no fan leaves left, didnt want to waste electricity and better start5 a new round.
Both times I grew 4 plants ir 3 gallons- autoflowers
Both times I experimented with watering - some pots presoaked, some not.
Both times experimented with nutes - to some plants gave 25-50% nute solution on day 14, to some 50-100% solution on day 20-21
Same results - 8 plants, several different watering and feeding methods, nothing changed.
I even asked my more experienced friend to WATCH ME WATER
(whether Iam doing something wrong lol)He said Iam a good waterer and suggest RO machine, since we kind of excluded all other factors (I even bought a different biobizz batch)
All of this has led me to overthink on my current (3rd) grow.
It will be day 20 again soon, my sphincter is clenched.
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Nutty sKunK
Well-Known Member
Are these days 20 in flowering? Or veg?I definitely am overthinking it.
But this is my 3rd grow and first 2 were bad.
For allgrows environment has been very good (temp, humidity, DLI)
1st - day 20 - yellow, crunchy leaves, kind of survived, but end product was pretty weak smoke.
2nd grow - same problems from day 20, flushed but then cut it down on day 35.. almost no fan leaves left, didnt want to waste electricity and better start5 a new round.
Both times I grew 4 plants ir 3 gallons- autoflowers
Both times I experimented with watering - some pots presoaked, some not.
Both times experimented with nutes - to some plants gave 25-50% nute solution on day 14, to some 50-100% solution on day 20-21
Same results - 8 plants, several different watering and feeding methods, nothing changed.
I even asked my more experienced friend to WATCH ME WATER
He said Iam a good waterer and suggest RO machine, since we kind of excluded all other factors (I even bought a different biobizz batch)
All of this has led me to overthink on my current (3rd) grow.
It will be day 20 again soon, my sphincter is clenched.
Got any pics of said deficiencies? Much easier to diagnose a picture!
kreikrei
Active Member
I grow only autoflowers currently. I have yet to overcome the 20day vegetative barrier without nute issues
My current (3rd grow) is day 16 veg. 4more days till the 20day curse
CUrrently everything is fine, already have 5th node emerging and will top today. (I have seen a popular opinion that if an auto has 4 nodes by day18-20, it means its a healthy auto and you can top)My first grow I underfed, saved the plant kind of - butthe end smoke was pretty weak.
Thread on my first grow - https://www.rollitup.org/t/biobizz-is-this-too-much-supplements-not-nutrients-n-p-k.1075710/
Second grow went almost identical, but I trashed the plants on day 30. On second grow I tried different watering and feeding methods, still the same result
Nutty sKunK
Well-Known Member
Just saw a pic from that thread. It’s manganese deficiency. That’s why u can’t fix it with varying amounts of feed etc.I grow only autoflowers currently. I have yet to overcome the 20day vegetative barrier without nute issues
My current (3rd grow) is day 16 veg. 4more days till the 20day curse
My first grow I underfed, saved the plant kind of - butthe end smoke was pretty weak.
Thread on my first grow - https://www.rollitup.org/t/biobizz-is-this-too-much-supplements-not-nutrients-n-p-k.1075710/
Second grow went almost identical, but I trashed the plants on day 30. On second grow I tried different watering and feeding methods, still the same result
I grow autos too and have noticed they seem to require high amounts of manganese.
Manganese is also made harder to absorb if there’s lots of calcium/iron present.
The classic tale tail sign is interveinal chlorosis of older leaves. Looks like Magnesium and is often confused. Then they are stumped when magnesium doesn’t fix it.
To save your plants get some manganese sulphate. Can be found at APC pure for UK.
Use 1g per gallon. Mix in warm water first to fully dissolve then add to rest of water. Then add your cal/Mag nutes etc.
I too was plagued by manganese defs until using manganese sulphate.
good luck!
kreikrei
Active Member
hmm.. very interesting thanks.
I have a high ppm tap water (350)
Maybe there is a lot of calcium/iron in there which caused issues.
How does one get manganese deficiency, if there isnt too much calcium/iron in water? Any other ways? Will do some reading
Nutty sKunK
Well-Known Member
Especially when it is in an unavailable form to the plant, it builds.
There’s varying factors. Dry soil, high pH, oversaturated soil ie poor drainage.
I like to cut the peat/perlite mixes with 25% more perlite. Weed loves a free draining media. That’ll help with manganese absorption.
Out the bag biobizz pH is good.
It’s strange you’re getting deficiencies so early. Simply water and a root stim in biobizz should get you to stretch before yellowing. And if yellow occurs it’s usually N. Looking at the picture again it looks like N and Manganese def.
If you are committed to using RO water I would find a calmag that has a complete trace nutrient profile. Plant magic Magnecal has one, includes manganese as well. Then get it to 150ppm, about 1ml per L and use that for at up to 3 weeks combined with a root stimulant. That simple!
Then once stretching starts, start feeding at 50% strength and include 1g per gallon of manganese sulphate and monitor health of plant. Can use Mag sulphate 1x per week up until last 2 weeks.
This is a rough guide: Bottom leaves discolouring = hungry, feed more. Top/fanleaves yellowing without bottoms = too much, back off. Middle leaves yellowing, inbalance. pH/excess or lack of micronutrient.
kreikrei
Active Member
Thank you very much!
I got the answer why my EC meter doesnt show Biobizz Calmagppm correctly - because it is organic.
That mean I need to be precise with the syringe when I apply it.
Can I ask for your time for 1 more question?
Do you know (I couldnt really find) if Plant magic Magnecal is organic?
If it is - PPM meter wont work and syringe is the way.
If it isnt - wont it hurt Biobizz Light mix bacteria/microbes?
Thanks again!
Nutty sKunK
Well-Known Member
It’s not quoted as being organic. And measures accurately on a PPM meter.
It’s always debated but I grew stinky plants with it before so didn’t harm it that much lol Just use in moderation. So no more than 150ppm for example abs don’t use last 2 weeks. Just use a mild bloom feed.
Good luck
kreikrei
Active Member
Hi, again
I was rereading what you wrote and earched for manganese sulphate.
Didnt find too many cannabis related topics, so I was wondering - if you found Man Sulphate to solve your problems, why isnt it a more popular problem/deficiency?
Why arent there more topics about this. Its fascinating.
Nutty sKunK
Well-Known Member
Well we’re using similar feeds and media. For others they will be using different nutrients etc. Also there tap water may be a better source of manganese. My tap water is 1/9 ratio manganese to iron so need to supplement.Hi, again
I was rereading what you wrote and earched for manganese sulphate.
Didnt find too many cannabis related topics, so I was wondering - if you found Man Sulphate to solve your problems, why isnt it a more popular problem/deficiency?
Why arent there more topics about this. Its fascinating.
There’s a few digging about. If u search the forms for manganese sulphate you might find it here, spoke about it a year or so ago
kreikrei
Active Member
Thanks.
Very interesting, and specific information.
I made sure that when some poor soul buys biobizz calmag and ppm meter and runs in to the same problems I do, he will search google for "biobizz calmag ppm" and my threads are the first results
Now there will be 1 more thread about Man sulphate
Thats why I am all for reviving "zombie" threads. It is okay to answer to a question 10 years ago, someone may read it
randomdude94
Member
Hey, I am that poor soul! I have the same problems. How did your plant develop eventually?Thanks.
I made sure that when some poor soul buys biobizz calmag and ppm meter and runs in to the same problems I do, he will search google for "biobizz calmag ppm" and my threads are the first results
10-46
Member
Man, I hear you and have been trying my tap water as I'm tired of buying and lugging around RO water. BUT, I struggle with salt buildup late mid flower and apparently using RO water is a big help in reducing salts. You know whats in RO water (nothing) but you don't really know whats in your tap water (without a proper water test.) Tap water can contribute to salt buildup.
Billy the Mountain
Well-Known Member
Kinda
Salt buildup in the grow medium is largely a consequence of the EC of the nutes and the amount of runoff. Whether a portion of the total EC comes from tap water is irrelevant. Too high EC for the amount of runoff is the root cause of salt buildup; lowering EC and/or increasing runoff will help.
I've used both RO and Lake Michigan tap (0.3EC) and have never noticed a difference in the plant's growth or end results.
* My water EC comes primarily from Calcium carbonate, Mg, and Sulfur. My city posts annual water reports.
10-46
Member
Nice that you know whats in the water, Calcium, MG and sulfur in the water is all good stuff for the plant...(in moderation)
Watering to runoff to reduce salt buildup.... Hmm, I could go on and on with this as I'm still experimenting. I water to runoff now, but am considering doing my next grow without. Watering heavily can cause problems of its own, I'm still tinkering with this a bit. (yes, I use a perlite and light soil too)
Your probably right about tap water, mine is coming in around 200 ppms with a PH of around 7.5. This forces me to use PH down which I really try to avoid using. (it takes quite a bit of PH down to take tap water down to around 6.5 PH) All and all though it works just fine.
RO water comes in around 10 PPM's according to my pen. I add just a bit of Cal/Mag and a little Silicon to the RO water bringing it to around 50 PPM's... Adding nutrients during feed time drops the PH to a perfect level without PH down. Plain waterings with RO water requires just a drop or two of PH down to get the PH right. My tap water requires a lot more PH down.